lanikai Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I disagree. While intentions may be honorable (whatever)....the contributions were less than classy. You can say it's about watches...a hobby...mods...reps...disagreements...or anything else that suits your particular fancy. What it isn't about is some newb with a penchant for high post count trying to show how much they "know" by having the audacity to bring a member's family into an issue and suggest how their time might be best spent. Her comment (something to the effect of 'didn't you just have a baby'....and....'this might be an opportunity to take care of more pressing issues'....) in my opinion is nothing more than an attempt to impress us all with how much she follows the community (aka....no life) and is beyond any definition of presumptuous. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue (is it even that big of one?) at hand. [Disclaimer] This is only my opinion....not expected to be shared or, heaven forbid, supported. Statements in the above post are not exact quotes from other posts...because I simply don't have the time to dig through pages and copy and paste useless fodder. You get the theme of the message regardless. Our personal lives are just that. Newbs should know their place (regardless of post count)....and being the only one in the room with [censored] does not mean everyone will line up to kiss your....charm. Feel free to consider this more "contributed crap". we all come from different backgrounds and cultures... I am an Asian mix while being 3rd generation Hawaiin culture .... our habits and beliefs transcend into our hobbies and likes and dislikes .. i do believe Ms. Barrett' intentions were in the right place ... we had just talked about how important family and children were.. (not about any members family just in general) ... we can take each others inventory all day long.. are we doing it to hurt 'them' because we don't like their personality or the "chemistry" is not right for us ? some people are very extroverted ... and some introverted.. is one better than the other?.. my watches .. i mainly like to lay them all out and look at them like art.. some others may wear theirs all the time... "different" ... sometimes words get in the way of the best intentions ... having been introverted for over a year (since i registered) and then joining the group on the board .. was a big step for me.. my first time other than a cigar forum... which was short lived ... so my point is i rather enjoy Ms. V's energy ... and i do believe her intentions to be nothing but good... she has never hesitated to help a member who needs help.. I am not the whiz at the computer like all of you so I ask for help.. instead of critisizing she has alway's been gracious to this member who should find time to take a course... but with my business my hours are very structured... like i should be sleeping now.... anyway... thank you again for reading my babble.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted August 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 i am glad someone finally posted some pics so everyone can see what the issue stemed from. in the pics, (this is the first time i've seen them) i see a few things that do not make sense to me like the black sprinkles in the movement? and the crushed tube on the gmt hand??? no idea what this is.. the crown tube was drilled larger inside to fit the crown but i could not fit it closer to the case because the cg lever would not touch it if it were closer. i did a 63 later after this one and fitted an h series cg i polished which fitted the crown closer to the case. i am glad i can see thi pics finally though. and i am glad that everyone can see that mistakes can be made. especially with reps as they have dials and hands with paint that easily chips, screws that randomly break or strip when you try to remove them..ect. i have also had many watches sent here that were done by other modders with issues and mistakes evident inside. i have pics also. but i will not post them or show them... i only use for before and after shots so the owner can see what was done. not for making my work look better than someone else's. again... i never claim to be the best or claim to do perfect work. everyone who opens a watch can make a mistake. i never beg people to send me watches to mod..they ask me. i had set prices for each mod and if my customer did not want to pay what i charge for each mod we just did what was asked then and nothing else. and also i cannot change a datewheel in 30 seconds either.. not an easy job for me. if The Zigmeister does not like my prices he does not have to pay them. no one does.. if someone is willing to do all your landscaping for $100 and i want $400.... does not mean i do better job, just means thats what i charge for my time. and i can accidentally back up my bobcat into your house and damage it just like the guy who is charging $100 can too... at my profession i make an equal to $120/hr and for watch labor i was charging less than that and using my spare time from my family. so at The Zigmeister's old rates before he pm'ed me asking for my rates, it just did not make sense to do this work. people can charge whatever they want and if it is too high...no one will pay it. i have been working full time at my day job for over a year from 9-7 everyday or 12-10 5-6 days/week. as soon as my kids go to bed i do watch work starting from about 8-10pm untill 3-4am every night 7 days per week with no time off...no time.. my wife is not happy about all the hours of work i do and what little sleep i get. even my day off when my kids take their nap i am doing watch work...thus if not getting decent money it's not worth it for me. turned from a hobby and fun to work...and thats not what i wanted. i referred alot of requests to The Zigmeister and vaccum as i had way too many to handle. i am right now relaxed and building my own projects in wich i have unlimited time and spare parts to work with. for example i am building what may be the best rep 111g you have ever seen. using a filled indice method with sandwich dials as a base, i have gone through 4 dials to get it to as good as it possibly can get in my eyes, perfect color mix, glow, texture, even application (perfectly flat and slightly res cessed like the gen) in a 10x loupe, in a microscope. compared to a gen face to face the mod is perfect in every way.. i have the best g movement i have seen to date swapped from an ultimate fiddy prototype, palp crown, ect.....you will see soon.... i have the skill but now not the stress so i will be putting together some of the nicest pams you have seen to date for my collection. especially now that it seems i may have to prove again that i can do it. i have now time to enjoy this hobby again and i intend to do just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) i. at my profession i make an equal to $120/hr and for watch labor i was charging less than that and using my spare time from my family. You make a quarter million dollars a year and are building the perfect PAM? A lot of people were calling to close this thread - I thing TT was right to leave it open. You get my vote to pin it. Edited August 21, 2007 by giorgio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted August 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 You make a quarter million dollars a year and are building the perfect PAM? A lot of people were calling to close this thread - I thing TT was right to leave it open. You get my vote to pin it. lol... i do have lots of gens but not for doing mod work on reps are fun anyone can buy a gen pam who has a credit card...but to build a "perfect rep" is a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Flav until this point I really was feeling to forgive and forget would be the right thing to do..... Everyone need remember that it is you who keep bringing your family into this....if anyone else mentions your Family it's because you yourself make them the topic for the way you set your prices and the methods that you employ.. I work 10 to 14 hours a day 7 day's a week ....... what does that have to do with the price of oranges in florida? I cannot use that as an Excuse for my actions ... and i certainly never bring Family into the picture Ziggy did not post the pics to try and attack you ... although it seems you think so.. In all the time members were "trying" to take me apart and bring me down .. you were totally absent ... and you knew full well the truth about the watch. I was willing to take everyones trash so no one else would be involved ... and now that when myself and everyone is trying to end this with kindness .. you appear and all i hear is me,me.. and again the pointing to others ..like I said Flav... it seems like you percieve yourself to be the "Victim".. in this whole ordeal . and please ... nothing was done to the watches other than you working on them before the pics were taken ... i tried to communicate with you until the end result was the PM that you posted ... yet you let people to believe that i just went off .. nothing about me trying to telll you what was happening with the watch before I sent it to Ziggy... and still i had not dropped your name ... your name would have never come up ... to me that equates to being a "rat" ,... I'm sorry Sir, I really think you should take a reality check on this whole issue.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 -1, Predictable. it has been very predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 This has taken a revealing but interesting turn for the worst. Over the years we have seen a number of modders come and go who get into trouble for one reason or another. Typically the modder either becomes overloaded with too much work, gets behind and just wants to get the watches out the door. Alternatively, the modder finds that he/she can properly lume a sandwich dial or service a Unitas movement but those services are a far cry from automatic watches with more difficult dials and hands and far more complex and smaller automatic movements. Here what I think I have just read is I have the time for my own modding but not that which I am being paid for. I don't really believe you are thinking that way but that is what it looks like. Flav, You have a great job and a wonderful family and have always been very responsive to me. What this tells me is you were in over your head. Given a busy family life and an excellent job you cannot make enough to make this worth your while. As you can see this field can also lead to other agita. I have to say the charges quoted in this post are surprising to me. They are not only more than what Ziggy charges (everyone's are) but they are more than what my local watchsmiths charge. And these guys went to school for this. You are right to now focus on watch smithing for fun. I can tell from your response that you have gotten yourself into the vicious cycle of too much work to get it right. I even see it in my very limited dealings. When I sent you a few watches for crystal removal for Chieftang's AR runs you were great to do it on an expedited basis. The first couple came back perfectly. But the second time at least one watch came back with the hands having been mis-positioned (i.e.date turnover not at midnight). As we both know automatic watches with dates unlike manuals require checking hand positioning.This means that you didn't have the time to check it before it went out. In fairness, I have never mentioned it as I will get it fixed for nothing when I have some other mods done to it but it just shows which way this thing was heading. So, I am pleased to see you are stepping back. It sounds like you will be a lot happier. So spend time with the family, revel in the gens you own and the reps you will always enjoy modding. Have fun again. Kruz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 We have the pics, we know both sides of the story, it's turning into a slanging match, any real reason for it to stay open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 it has been very predictable. Did you miss something? Seriously, you're representing RWI in a poor light with your behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 We have the pics, we know both sides of the story, it's turning into a slanging match, any real reason for it to stay open? Yes, it seems the longer this thread stays open, the more we find out about our fellow collectors and ourselves. Worst thread ever!!!!!!!!!! I think this is a very educational thread. As valuable even (dare I say it) as Phoband's Thoughts On The Forum And Collecting, and Edge's Guide To Replica Forums 1. Shows what happens when you're too quick to pull the trigger on airing dirty laundry in public (FF) 2. Rush to judgment and mob cry to crucify the unnamed Lanakai (first 500 people to respond to FF) without knowing the facts. Next 200 people begging for the thread to be closed after they realize how stupid they were for: 1. starting this thread when they shouldn't have 2. jumping on the mob bandwagon before they got the facts 3. just being clueless If any topic has ever deserved to be pinned, it is this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 1. Shows what happens when you're too quick to pull the trigger on airing dirty laundry in public (FF) 2. Rush to judgment and mob cry to crucify the unnamed Lanakai (first 500 people to respond to FF) without knowing the facts. You missed HK45's attempt to use the thread for his own political gain. I mean it takes a driven man to use this thread into proof of The Zigmeister's alleged conspiracy against all other modders. Maybe there's hope for my second-hand pitchfork shares yet. Get him, lads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Time for a Thread clean-up... All irrelevant post are being set invisible... TT Again... TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 So.....who's got the best Sub then.....? And another thing....why on the bottom of the page does Admin and Mods get a nice blue box with contrasting letters inside it....same for VIPs....but dealers only get a green font.....why no green 'box' with white font.......harrumph.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Yeah TTK, I was wondering about that too, it makes you look unimportant, dont it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 You missed HK45's attempt to use the thread for his own political gain. I mean it takes a driven man to use this thread into proof of The Zigmeister's alleged conspiracy against all other modders. I actually laughed out loud when I read that. There's been a lot of thread-hijacking for various reasons here Maybe there's hope for my second-hand pitchfork shares yet. Get him, lads! The way people are bashing at each other here I'd say you'll make a killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psuedo-enzo- Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 worst thread? This thread is full of information, opinions, insights and a lot of specific to our hobby. It's gone through a full evolution of process and by default shown sides to individuals and the result of actions and transactions ... Too many times we miss fact that the most of us are here for a common reason, the facination of mechanical timepieces. Often that gets lost in other pursuits. Monetary gain is one of those things that can kill a hobby ... everyone here has probably sold a watch or made money from their collection to further their 'addiction', habit, inventory; whatever term suits. But how many times is that con-fused, or transmuted into something far more retail oriented? And how often does that leap turn what is a fun, literally a hobby, into something more pedantic. We learn by example and often the net allows us fiduciary gain all too quickly. I think I can define myself as a modder, but I do it primarily for my own interest and not for income. Because I enjoy it, I don't like to turn projects into service jobs - I can understand there is profit to be gained, and that is an enticement to some, but working closely with a watchmaker, I understand that what he does and what I do are different. What he did took years of training and thousands of service jobs which evolved into someone apprenticing through into the level respective of a master craftsmen. What I do is simply and offshoot of my interests and passion. While I may become adept at certain processes - I will never achieve what somebody who has the title of watchmaker does daily. The net is a blurry place where people are given credientials based on very little process. Repworld is quite vague when it comes to providence, most of what we decide is based on feedback, general opinion and self promotion. People can one day decide they are a self-titled, and hang out a shingle and start a business. Someone with years of professional experience can appear to be in the same pool. As everthing is based on aether - it's hard to percieve what are, or discern between the extremes. If someone pours their time and resources into marketing, they can create the impression of an appealing slick package. However most labour work is based on reputation of the work. That's really the core. A high percent satisfaction rate and an effcient turnover are the cornerstones to anyone that makes their living offering services. I think (for myself) I can disern offers of services for money, who are the professionals and who are the amatuers making money. I get the impression this always isn't clear to the general community. That's why things are discussed and explored here, it benefits the group. Certainly it upsets some, but in the end, the more we know, the better, whether it's positive or negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkdk Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 well, since my posts keep being deleted, im hoping my response will last long enough to elaborate my worst thread comment. It was only based on people bashing each other. Im fully agree that the core of the thread has been very informative and important to our community, as there was a conflict to resolve. but people slagging of each other, that just turned me off. It has soured the delicate vanilla cream that used to be this forum (could come up with anything better ) and to the adm, constantly deleting my posts. You can bite my shiny metal----------royaloakoffshore :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 So what's with this deleting of relatively innocuous posts all of a sudden? Wouldn't it be simpler just to rewrite the whole damn thread so as to reflect whatever agenda you're trying to promote here? Either lock it down or let it rip, but please don't start micro-managing what you want us to see. We already get enough of that in the MSM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 and to the adm, constantly deleting my posts. You can bite my shiny metal----------royaloakoffshore :D None of your Post's have been deleted... Just set invisible... This is a very important Thread... And we're attempting to keep it on Topic... Which I might add is no easy task with this group TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 So I take it that The Topic is the color of TTK's name? Puleeeeze, dude. Now go and make me invisible, TT! I dare 'ya! BRING IT ON, DUDE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Good point psuedo-enzo, I dont write much anymore (mostly read), but I wanted to say that your reply was done well. This really is an important thread imo as stated. I am here because of my hobby first and formost. Making friends is a pleasure but being aware/informed of the going ons so that I can make a better judgement in this hobby is invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 So I take it that The Topic is the color of TTK's name? Puleeeeze, dude. Now go and make me invisible, TT! I dare 'ya! BRING IT ON, DUDE! TTK posted that after the last Thread clean-up... As far as making you invisible J... Why would I do that? Waking up on the wrong side of the bed is no reason to zap someone... Besides, you always bring an interesting perspective to Forum Life... TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Too nice of you, TT For the rest, I was actually looking forward to the idea of invisibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 information is the key to sucessful operations .... before this thread arrived ... i piggy backed off another thread in the panerai group ... I wanted it known that members modding for the forst time should not be taken advantage of... if anyone can recall... human nature being what is is, that may be an impissibility(not mis-spelled) .. I was not asking for a refund ... just a warning to the modder not to do this again ... for me the beggining of the end (so to speak) it was not about the money it was about setting things right .. and to make ammends meant not doing it to another so called customer again.. you have to admit... there was a lot of "marketing" and "Advertising" done on the boards.... by that I mean posting all the finished products... obvously only the really good ones....LOL ......I'm sure it wasn't purely for show and tell,. so it just seems ironic now that a modder can say to the effect.. I didn't ask to do it and it takes time away from my family when in effect he was asking for work otherwise why advertise..??.... and the marketing aspect with other members voicing... "a rising star ready to do a lume job on the Sistine Chapel" Two thumbs way up>>"Siskel and Ebert" .....OK so there is no way to regulate this .. this is an open forum .. but should new modders be listed under "trading" sections"... there is no way to "big brother" this because the RWG I am sure is not in the "business" of renting modding space... but we are using this "SPACE" to commnicate our likes and dislikes ....So to me .... a lot of show and tell is to in effect say .."I do really good work .. contact me ..... another great job done by>>>>." so... my main purpose from the start was to make sure this does not happen to anyone else ... so if the name calling and "bashing" brought us to this.... which I believe is growth and information... then it was worth it... maybe suggestions so this will not happen .... maybe letting new members know to check with neutral parties before dropping 3 to 4 hundred bucks for what you saw on the pics...not that I think that kind of money will be charged in the near future unless warranted.. Just a thought and to TT... where was your invisibility cloak when I was trying to stay invisible from my EX-Mother in Hell ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 It might comfort you to know that you've been invisible to me for quite some time now.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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