docblackrock Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) Well I thought long and hard about posting this especially after several emails back and forth and I apologise in advance for the length of the rant (my spleen needs venting fully) but in the end another old-time member and good friend convinced me to make this known so here goes... Like many here, months ago I sent Joe a watch and parts for mods (first time), and patiently I waited, and waited....and waited. No bitching, no complaining, no nagging, just patience. Deadlines came and went, and then Joe went down due to illness. A few scare stories were posted, and major accusations made against him and facts like he had well over 100 watches unopened . But still more patience on my part, the guy's ill I thought, I'll hold off especially as I know professionally how debilitating respiratory disease can be. So after a few chasing emails, finally I hear from him and from the long run-on paragraphs what I essentially take away is this.... "Yes I've been ill (yes I know Joe), but I have NOT scammed anyone...so don't believe all these idiots posting (okaaaay fair enough)...they had axe to grind against me (hmmm, protesting a little too much?) ....The Zigmeister's behind it I swear (paranoia?).....I still do great work (we'll see)...actually great work (if you say so), no-one else is better, no-one else can do the great work I do nobody (arrogance, not a nice trait)....so if you just wait some more ( no I don't think so Joe) I'll do the great work you want....." What struck me firstly was that throughout this self-promotional diatribe, no word no not even a slightest hint of any apology for the wait. And THAT's what really [censored] me off. I don't know maybe I'm being oversensitive, or have a heightened sense of manners and decency? I actually don't think so but it seems more and more people have no class about them and are only out for the money. Talking of which, the best bit though was yet to come.... ...which was essentially that if I decide that after waiting months, I just want my unopened watch back (i.e. no profit in it for him) then of course that would be fine no problem at all from his point of view......providing I just paypal him $25 to send it back WTF???? I'm sure some will reply here saying 'Joe's the man' like some of the other sycophants (not sure if '[censored]-kissers' would get me a warning? ) who talk about him 'seeing them right' and 'shipping express at no charge'. I expect that, really I do. Just as I'll expect many respected members to stay quiet and say nothing maybe out of some (misguided) fear of being 'blackballed'. I wonder if I all I get is 'what's the big deal' or more excuses for Joe's dealings. Whatever, now you all know. And Joe, all I'll say is you really need to work on your customer service and dare I say it, manners. Either way though you win (sarcastic) as if you send my watch and parts back safely I'll gladly paypal you the money you 'asked' for to cover the huge inconvenience and expense of having to return my watch unopened. Edited May 31, 2006 by docblackrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 maybe it's the gung-ho nationalistic nature you get over there? you have to allow for local customs... Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... Seriously, hope you get your watch back and it is in the same condition. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 One question, exactly how long has Joe had your watch? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Yes.. The Zigmeister is responsible for everything... from the first sin to the WW2 and the forthcoming end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsy Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) I heard he once hand crafted a tourbillon out of a potato and a shoe lace. Edited May 31, 2006 by Bigsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premiumdesigners Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 I heard he once hand crafted a tourbillon out of a potato and a shoe lace. anyone sourcing these yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8o8 Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 anyone sourcing these yet? I'll waite for the CN rep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) quality posts guys, no really.... @V - sssssh, don't wake the The Zigmeister conspiratory theorists @ken - several months at least, not sure why you think that's the six million dollar question? Is there some qualification period? I'm aware some people have waited 6 months even a year in vain, well more fool them. It's not how long, it's not how much, it's how lacking in decency... Edited May 31, 2006 by docblackrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 @ken - several months at least, not sure why you think that's the six million dollar question? Well yes I do think its the six million question, it goes straight to the core question........has Joe done anything wrong. For instance if Joe has had your watch for say 2 Months I would be saying "What the hell do you expect, I've waited longer than that just to receive a watch!". On the other hand if Joe has had your watch for say 8 Months and hasn't even cracked it open, I would be saying "Joe cut the crap and send the man his watch back!" Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Well yes I do think its the six million question, it goes straight to the core question........has Joe done anything wrong. For instance if Joe has had your watch for say 2 Months I would be saying "What the hell do you expect, I've waited longer than that just to receive a watch!". On the other hand if Joe has had your watch for say 8 Months and hasn't even cracked it open, I would be saying "Joe cut the crap and send the man his watch back!" Ken Sorry but I think you're missing the point....no apology, just a 'demand' that I pay to receive my watch back after he's sat on it. I understand he wants to preserve his business after getting in too deep, overpromising and under-delivering, but it's the manner of his communication and methods I have a small problem with. I also know I'm not the only one who's seen the cold hard mercenary that lies beneath the persona. And for the record, I'm not sure think it's about 3-4 months - where does that fit in your scale then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustybrand Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Joe hasn't been sick for as long as some people seem to have been waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancelot Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 :cc_confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 From reading your post ( you are a very good writer BTW) I can relate to your state of mind about this experience. A simple "I'm sorry about this" would have helped a lot, I would be pretty anxious and irritated if I had to wait 4 months also. You start to wonder what is going on with your watch. On top of that, asking for extra money to return your watch after you've patiently waited a long time is pretty bold. I hope it all works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) docblackrock, I can read through your lines that you gave putting ths forth in public some serious thought. I would always expect proper treatment as well when dealing in any business transaction (and this is what this is) specially, if I am the customer. You are far from being over sensitive and in my view, you have been more than patient and fair. Proper communication can go a long way in calming down a customer and it is the right thing to do. I'm not sure why this is not done more often. I wouldn't have customers for long if I did not. BTW, I do not buy into the argument in any form or fashion that these are "just reps" and therefore must be considered in a different light. They are our property, pure and simple. I hope you receive your watch in short order in the state in which you sent it. Cheers, Jet Edited June 4, 2006 by Jetsons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Ended up costing me $35, basically ransom, to get mine sent back after ~3 months (was promised 3 weeks). Now that I have it back I will post a bigger review when I have time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Sounds like some tug-of-war going on there.... The businessman always loses in these scenarios...better to let go, gently so's not the let the customer fall...that way he may come back... I don't know about anyone else, but these posts are really making me glad that I am learning to work on my own watches.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 that sux.... I have not had Joe do any work for me yet. I have spoken on the phone a few times with him. When all these anti-Joe posts began a few weeks ago, I was giving Joe the benefit of the doubt, after all, he has been sick and all...which is really unfortunate for him. I am not sure an "apology" from him is in order, after all it is not his fault he got sick, and [censored] does happen....but it isn’t your fault either, so you shouldn’t have to suffer. you would think, from a business stand point, he would offer a discount or free future work or something to compensate for you having to wait around. And I got to agree - especially considering all the negative "press" he has been getting lately - the very least he could do is send you back your stuff for free.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzanooo Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I do not, or have had any contact with Joe on repairs or mods. But the idea that you should send $25.00 to send a watch back after so long is pretty extreme. Overnight is cheaper than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Docblackrock- Thank you for posting. All accurate posts, both positive and negative, are helpful to the membership. Everyone should post both good and bad transactions (or delays in this case). I guess it is a little surprising that he wants you to pay the shipping since he has had it for 3-4 months. In fairness, Joe is ill and so you don't want to kick someone when they are down. And you are not. Irrespective of that, if he is in fact way behind on work irrespective of cause the membership should know that and what to expect in terms of timing before sending. As I say this I have never had Joe work on my watches so I have no axe to grind. If he is truly behind I hope he will tell the forum members that when he returns and then repost his availability for additional work when he has worked through the backlog. If the delay relates simply to illness I still hope he will post that and once again let the membership know when he has the health and time to take on more work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighDef Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 This really suck big time Joe. You know Joe,,instead of me gettinig angry at you for you not returning my other watch for a total of eigth months now.,,,,I pity you,,seriously. I know you are not that wealthy and I know you need this rep job moneys too, but you probably did not know it yet that you blew it. Can you even imagine how much money you can make on this rep work business?? You can do the math right? Just set a dollar figure and multiply it by the number of members . Set it as your yearly income,,tax free. This is were the money is Joe!! Not from selling some funky used golf shoes and clubs on Ebay. You can build an empire on this if you just handle this business correctly. Get somebody to advice you on how to run this type of business,,get help. Joe, if you do not know how to handle this crises, you will probably loose almost all of the people that has been reading this bad rap about you. I for one am not sending you any of my watches anymore. I felt I got bitten why will I dip my hands again. This is the last time you will hear from me Joe and I still wish you luck . I hate to see good skills go to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I agree totally with Doc... I called Joe about modding my no-date Sub April 7th and he said to go ahead and send it right away. So I did and it arrived April 10th. I waited thru all the posts and all the flaming and figured I would hear from him when I did. But in the meantime I bought an SD and Joshua came out with his 'Ultimate Subs' and I've decided to sell the no-date and possibly the SD and get a re-worked modern Sub from Joshua. So I emailed Joe and explained I'd like my watch back and even offered to Paypal him $$ for Priority Mail (I realize he has not been working and money may be tight) and told him he could keep the spare non-SEL Sub bracelet with one stuck link that I sent in with the Sub for parts. Then last night I got the same self aggrandizing email that some others have probably gotten and a promise to call me Thursday. In the email he bashed The Zigmeister and Palp and claimed that they were hacks and had stolen everything from him and he would not post any more 'how to' articles as all they do is rip him off. That seems strange to me as (AFAIK) The Zigmeister is a true watchmaker and Joe has to send his watches out for movement services? Nothing turns me off more than someone flaming another craftsman. That's the quickest way to lose my business :yucky: Now I hear about this $25 crap? What a scam. You have people send in watches, then you just sit on em, then you ransom them for $25 to get them back when Priority Mail is $4.05. $20 profit for doing nothing times 100 watches If I have to I'll pay Priority to get my watch back but I won't be happy about it. For $25 I'll call the Postal Inspectors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Doc, where are you at? For some reason I have the feeling it's Australia, if so, the $25 to send back may be correct? Just checking as it would be unfair for everyone to think you are being overcharged for shipping (irrespective of whether you should or should not be) unless you really are being overcharged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Like I stated, I was charged $35 for shipping and the box says it costs 6.35... you can do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bres3000 Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 if I decide that after waiting months, I just want my unopened watch back (i.e. no profit in it for him) then of course that would be fine no problem at all from his point of view......providing I just paypal him $25 to send it back WTF???? I'm sure some will reply here saying 'Joe's the man' like some of the other sycophants (not sure if '[censored]-kissers' would get me a warning? ) who talk about him 'seeing them right' and 'shipping express at no charge'. "Ass kissers" is the expression that I would use, Doc. You've been screwed on so many levels.... And, you didn't even get kissed first. You know, its a hell of an idea for a scam, though..... I think I'll set up a website and basically warehouse people's stuff indefinitely, and when they want it back, I'll charge them a hefty fee. What should I name it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submersible24g Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) bres3000: you should call it "Joe's Watch Shack" No WAY!!! $25 even to Australia is rediculous. USPS GLOBAL Priority mail is $7.00 for one watch in a small package.......ans thats ANYWHERE in the world! Edited June 1, 2006 by submersible24g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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