Teddy Bear

[Johnkaz]

How can it be justified to send a teacher to jail followed by expulsion from a country for calling a Teddy bear Mohamed. Such anally retentive crap, I am no lover of any religions, and consider they are a major cause of trouble and distress. But this is utter crap.

Does anybody out there think this is just. We are back to the monkey trials.

British teacher Gillian Gibbons has been found guilty of inciting hatred after she let her Sudan school pupils name a teddy bear Muhammad.

The 54-year-old mother of two from Liverpool escaped a possible sentence of 40 lashes but was given 15 days in jail and ordered to be deported by the court in Khartoum.

Mrs Gibbons was arrested on Sunday after complaints to the Education Ministry that she had insulted the Prophet Muhammad, the most revered figure in Islam, by applying his name to a toy animal

Cheers Johnkaz.

[z80]

To think this could happen in the 21st century is shameful. I honestly don't know how most of the major religions can continue to function in this age when we know so much about the history of the planet that directly contradicts them. And to allow a religion to control a government, and to take it to an extreme like this is unacceptable.

[Dani]

i do not expect more from countrys like that,if i was better in English writing i woud rant on..

Edited November 29, 2007 by Dani

[Guest watchbuff]

Any religion or Country who justifies brutality in teh name of god is not worth the plutonium to level the place with.

You cannot expect to win their hearts, just break their bodies. Trust me I was on the fron lines bot abroad and here agaisnt these zealots. One word. Extinction.

[Pugwash]

Trust me I was on the fron lines bot abroad and here agaisnt these zealots. One word. Extinction.

Wow, that's an enlightened point of view!

ps. Yes, Sudan is a backwards [censored]-hole. You'll get no argument from me on that one.

[Victoria]

these zealots.

That's the point. They're zealots, not just religious.

This teddy bear anecdote reminds me of a girl in my form. Like Brideshead's Sebastian Flyte, she carried around with her wherever she went -- no, not a teddy, but an anatomically-correct male doll.

(We didn't use the term in the late 80s, but today she would be known as a Goth chick. Posters of Joy Division and the Ramones plastered everywhere. A row of ear piercings. Dyeing her hair black, though she was fair. You know the kind)

And one day she turned up with this doll which she called, wait for it, "Jesus Snot". This outraged one of our Anglican nuns, and she took her and Jesus Snot to our Head. Scary lady, in that traditionally stuffy British Headmistress vein, but fair.

The Head told my classmate, look this is an Anglican school, and you can't expect not to insult people with that doll's name. Tell you what, change the first name whilst you're in school, and call him whatever you want outside it, fair enough?

So, her dollie was henceforth known as Jimmy Snot. Nice to know the nuns weren't outraged at the Snot bit, BTW.

This precise attitude is what is missing in this country, Sudan. A sense of proportion, moderation, and fairness. It's not going to change any time soon, so it's just as well she's out of there.

@Pugwash: More than probably, like Ally Sheedy more or less, in BC. ...but we girls didn't use it.

[Pugwash]

We didn't use the term in the late 80s, but today she would be known as a Goth chick.

Goth Chick is an 80s term ...

[Johnkaz]

I see we have developments, there has been protesting in the streets, by the nice religious people who consider the sentence too lenient. Some are even calling for her to be beheaded. This is a far more apt sentence for such a disturbing crime.

Worse is to come, apparently the Teddy Bears are planning a huge riot.

An interesting question, do any religions have a bear as a symbol? Hindus maybe.

Cheers Johnkaz

[Guest watchbuff]

All I needed were more GBU bombs, more fuel and more time, and more attitudes would ave been "adjusted".

[The Mentalist]

Religious fundamentalism and ideological zealousy is a scourge of civilised society. The Sudanese who are now baying for Ms Gibbons to be shot are nothing but ignorant sycophants. In some respects the USA has it correct. Let's bomb the f**kers. A couple of daisy cutters on Kartoum should shut them up good style.

[Dani]

I woud reather invite the local rats then this people

[Victoria]

Worse is to come, apparently the Teddy Bears are planning a huge riot.

:lol:

This WOULD be funny...if this situation weren't so tragic, real and stupid. Zealots disgust me. Like when they killed an Italian nun in Somalia over the Jyllands-Posten (corr.) cartoons. Get real, you morons.

[KB]

You know I was as outraged as anyone when I first heard this, I mean to do this to someone who is there to help your people in the first place.

However one thought that keeps popping up in my mind is that we are talking about a 54yo teacher who would have been briefed by her employer before going, and should have taken much time researching the place she was going to.........is all of this a tragic stuff up on her behalf?

Ken

[Victoria]

However one thought that keeps popping up in my mind is that we are talking about a 54yo teacher who would have been briefed by her employer before going, and should have taken much time researching the place she was going to.........is all of this a tragic stuff up on her behalf?

An interesting question.

Unlike the Jesus Snot anecdote, it's not translateable from one religion to the other, because some religions are more flexible than others.

Where she erred, is thinking that little innocent kids should be able to name a beloved plush toy for the greatest exponent of their religion.

(BTW, she allowed this not because of the Prophet -- PBUH -- but after one of the most popular boys in class, who was named Mohammed)

But just like after the cartoons flap, when Iranians renamed "Danishes" to "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed", it's not the name that irked, but that anything in their religion was touched on by a filthy unbeliever. It's okay when they do it, not too okay when others do.

That's where she went wrong.

She wasn't savvy enough, and therefore, cultured-enough to figure out you stay well away from that topic -- because there are people who will HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL you in that region, if you don't.

[KB]

That is basically the thought yes, but please everyone understand I am not condoning this sentence in any way just saying that in her place I would make damn sure what I could say and do before I set foot in Sudan.

Ken

[narikaa]

because there are people who will HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL you in that region, if you don't.

Moreover..........

It is the sworn duty of EVERYONE in that religion to either convert. subjugate or slay ALL non believers.

So she's escaped their clutches quite lightly.

.

[Guest watchbuff]

There in lis the problem of the liberal view that we can" help" and just need better "understanding". At some point the liberal will be kneeling in front of a video camera while masked cowards stand behind him reading some religious -political tirade and severing the head of another human being in the name of "God"

Sickens me.

I spent many years serving my country and still do here in a domestic way in a city that was the epi-center for islamic radicals to demonstrate how far they ware willing to take there cause.

Pardon my language but ,[censored] these people.

The same liberals here that call for better understanding of Islam usually are the ones that also cry fould about Abu Gharib "torture". War is hell...let it happen. The biggest bomb wins. It's not about who's right...but who is left. Who is right is subjective.

I tell you this I never felt bad once about dropping ordinance on the same people that would do it to me in a NY minute.

Just ask Victoria from England, total warfare occured in Europe on a scale unimaginable to the civilized human today, killing civilians by the thousands all to weaken the morale of the military machine of that nation.

I don't "support" the war cause but I do support our trops and want them home safe and soon. But the business at hand has to e completed to secure not just this nation but all civilized democratic societies around the world.

(Steps off soap box)

So..did I mention I built another Frnakenjust? Mimosa anyone?

[Emmzy]

The irony is that at this moment in time there are Westerners in Sudan working their butts off to save Sudanese children from disease and malnutrition.

The actions in the Sudan have rightly sickened decent Muslims......so let's see them stand up and confront the extremists..fat chance eh?

[eddhead]

There in lis the problem of the liberal view that we can" help" and just need better "understanding". At some point the liberal will be kneeling in front of a video camera while masked cowards stand behind him reading some religious -political tirade and severing the head of another human being in the name of "God"

Sickens me.

I spent many years serving my country and still do here in a domestic way in a city that was the epi-center for islamic radicals to demonstrate how far they ware willing to take there cause.

Pardon my language but ,[censored] these people.

The same liberals here that call for better understanding of Islam usually are the ones that also cry fould about Abu Gharib "torture". War is hell...let it happen. The biggest bomb wins. It's not about who's right...but who is left. Who is right is subjective.

I tell you this I never felt bad once about dropping ordinance on the same people that would do it to me in a NY minute.

Just ask Victoria from England, total warfare occured in Europe on a scale unimaginable to the civilized human today, killing civilians by the thousands all to weaken the morale of the military machine of that nation.

I don't "support" the war cause but I do support our trops and want them home safe and soon. But the business at hand has to e completed to secure not just this nation but all civilized democratic societies around the world.

(Steps off soap box)

So..did I mention I built another Frnakenjust? Mimosa anyone?

Wow.

I agree that you cannot apologize for people or whole cultures who perpetrate such acts. Regardless of your political or social orientation, some things are just morally wrong and people need to stand up to the fact these acts cannot be tolerated in a civilized world. But please do not make this a liberal vs. conservative issue. Your political orientation has nothing to do with how you feel on this topic. And by the way, I do know Muslims who are equally horrifed about what is happening to this poor woman.

And conflating the Iraq war with this event perpetrates the myth that somehow US involvement in Iraq is a justified tactic in the war on terror. It is not. Pre-war Iraq was an unhappy place for a lot or people but it was not a sanctuary for the types of fundamental Islamic activites we get from places like Sudan and Saudi. Indeed Iraq was a secular society and a provided a stronghold AGAINST the wahabism that fuels these activities.

As for Abu-Ghaib .. .sorry but that is just not acceptable, not from anyone, but most especially not from representives of the leaders of the free world. We are supposed to be better than that.

I suppor the troops too. I think they are heros. And we are wasting their lives and their efforts.

[Pugwash]

Pardon my language but ,[censored] these people.

The same liberals here that call for better understanding of Islam usually are the ones that also cry fould about Abu Gharib "torture". War is hell...let it happen. The biggest bomb wins. It's not about who's right...but who is left. Who is right is subjective.

Ironically, I fail to see a difference between your POV and theirs. People like you scare me.

[Victoria]

Just ask Victoria from England, total warfare occured in Europe on a scale unimaginable to the civilized human today, killing civilians by the thousands all to weaken the morale of the military machine of that nation.

Yes, but we all did a lot of killing in the names of our religion, Watchbuff, people will say. They are right. Thing is, some people have moved on since then, even God bless I never thought I'd say this in my own lifetime -- the Irish. When the IRA did away with their arms, a part of me rejoiced well beyond anything human like crying victory. It was a primordial cry of thankfulness and belief in man.

This Clash of Civilisations (you know Sam Huntington must be the most sought-after academic in the world, and Francis Fukuyama must be burying his head somewhere in the sand) is like many clashes -- a contest not only of specific peoples, but of resolve, courage, and self-belief.

So far, no culture of death has survived when challenged. The same things were said about people loving death more than we love life, were said about the Japanese in WWII. We still won.

Every incident like this proves their zealots' hatreds, in the most immediate gut-punching way possible. No where in our Western world will you find this a condonable action to take on others, by our zealots. Those that transgress are promptly sanctioned.

I have faith. Not in religion, but in what we stand for. They do in theirs. But ours is based on life. We will win.

[ryyannon]

The UnBearable Lightness of Being

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...849#description

Laughter is often the best defense.

[Victoria]

Laughter is often the best defense.

"I urge everyone reading this to get their bids in quick, I believe that the Sudanese government has requested its extradition under the 1302 We don

[ryyannon]

Nice Avedon pic by the way...

[Guest]

Laughter is often the best defense.

Agreed! JL