Manually winding an automatic movement....

[FxrAndy]

hey they exist too http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0835757/, thanks for the tip Vic!

[jaguar2187]

I dont' think there is anything to debate.

Hand winding an automatic will eventually damage the click wheel(s).

The rotor is geared down from the rotor to the mainspring, meaning many turns of the rotor are needed to turn the mainspring gear once around. Reverse the flow and what do you get...geared up of course...

When you handwind the watch, this gearing down is now geared up, and 1/4 of a turn on the crown, makes the click wheels spin like crazy. They are not designed to withstand this speed or friction, they are designed to work with the slow rotor turns. The click wheels are two parts, the bottom half is connected to the mainspring gear, and the top half connects to the Rotor. If you remove the rotor the damage issue is gone, since the complete click wheels turn while handwinding and the wheels are locked together, it's when the rotor is attached that the click wheel bottom half freewheels and the clutches are getting spun around and get damaged.

I see this type of damage all the time, if you handwind constantly, then eventually you will hear and feel the rotor spinning due to the click wheels failing...it's a well documented fact. Click wheels are anywhere from $30 and up...as long as they are available. This is why most Japanese automatics, do not have the capability for handwinding.

There is nothing wrong with s-l-o-w-l-y handwinding an automatic a few turns to get it started when you first put it on, anything beyond this, and your damaging the watch.

RG

@ The Zigmeister

I really appreciated your comments on handwinding automatics. But here to me is the clincher. Three of our dealers (two have since removed these words from their websites) give this type of info to their customers on their site when/after purchasing one of their products. The first part re date is excellent.

The Zigmeister your thoughts on this winding procedure and the wacking away for 3- 4 minutes like a mad cow?

A11. To avoid damaging the delicate mechanisms of the Valjoux 7750b1

movement you need to follow the instructions listed below to take care

of it:

If your Valjoux 7750b1 has DATE function, DO NOT ADJUST the date when

your time is between 10:00 to 3:00. It will damage the internal gears

unknowingly if you do that. The BEST WAY is to manually adjust the time

to 6:00 and then adjust the DATE after that.

If you are using the chronograph functions of the Valjoux 7750b1,

always make sure that to start the stopwatch, you depress the pusher

button on top and also to STOP the stopwatch, depress the same pusher

button.

REMEMBER: START & STOP is TOP Pusher Button

ONLY after you STOP the stopwatch, then you depress the lower pusher

button to RESET the stopwatch function. DO NOT DEPRESS the lower pusher

button when the stopwatch function is running. ONLY Depress the lower

pusher button after you STOP the chronograph.

If you follow the instructions carefully, your watch will last you a

long time. Naturally watches may not last a lifetime since they aren't

made to COSC standards and neither are they SWISS GENEVE made or

stamped. Remember a replica is always a replica but do enjoy them as at

a fraction of the cost, these cosmetically perfect replicas are a joy

to wear, aren't they?

Some additional 7750/7750b1/7753 information

*Please read them before u play with your watch that has above movement

1. How do you set date on 7750 or 7753 or 7750b1 or any movt with date

chrono/ automatic?

Do not activate the chrono until you have done all these steps as

mentioned

When you receive your piece, please remember to handwind the piece for

about maybe 50 rounds, so to generate enough power reserve. Then you

shake the piece like a "mad cow" for 3-4 minutes to generate more power

reserve (If necessary)

Then pull the crown out to adjust the hour hand manually to determine

when is am/pm. See the date change - then you will know when is am/ pm.

Make sure you know when is am/ pm before you proceed

Make sure you do not adjust the date between 10pm-3am ever!!! Do not

ask me why because it just works this way. if you adjust between

10pm-3am, the date will jam or go half way.

After u have confirmed the am/ pm.u can adjust the crown to get to the

desired date you want.

[RWG Technical]

Well...I don't think you need my feedback on "wacking your watch like a mad cow for 3-4 minutes"...and if it's a good thing or not.

RG

[HauteHippie]

What damage is or can be caused by resetting a running chronograph? I've always wondered.

[hooky]

What damage is or can be caused by resetting a running chronograph? I've always wondered.

Chief, maybe this is off topic, but here is my answer.

i am certainly not an expert, but i had hands on experience with this. It happened to a friends PAM253 with an A7750, which i got for him from China.

He was trying to reset the chrono while it was running. If you push normally, you would not see anything happen. I guess it is somehow protected. But this guy, also did not see anything happen, so he increased the force used on the reset button. Bang! broken.

Not really broken, but what happened is that the lever of the chronograph module got stuck behind the other lever of the running chrono. That other lever would not have been in that position when the chrono was first stopped after starting it. You could take a look at some of your own watches with open case back, chrono and 7750.

To get back to your question, what damage could be caused...

In the end no damage was done. The movement had to be taken out of the case, the chronomodule had to be taken off/deinstalled to get the reset button lever back to its normal position.

Luckily this guy did not inflict any more damage. He even used a plier on the reset button to try to get the lever back. Just think of the damage he could have done... broken lever, etc.

Cheers,

Jouke

[POTR]

Chieftang, depends on the chronograph...

But basically, consider that the timing and resetting are different operations, each applying massive force in differing ways to acheive different results...

Engaging reset (applying massive force to quickly move the seconds back to zero) while there is an opposing force (steady force to move the pinion to show the timing event) would basically cause, jamming, bending or breakage of wheels.

Higher end column wheel chronos, (kind of shaped like a turret (VJ 72, El Primero, etc...) are designed to ensure that the operations can't be engaged at the same time, however, applying too much force to the reset while the chronograph is running could break the lever, or even the column wheel, causing even more damage...

More common chronos with an oscillating pinion (ETA 7750, etc...), use the heart shaped cam and additional levers to separate the functions... these are easier to break with too much force, especially if any of the parts are easily overcome because of their construction (nylon/plastic)...

Imagine an car's differential, it is geared so that the transmitted energy can be delivered in different (hence the name) amounts to the wheels as required (going through a turn one wheel must turn faster than the other, or damage will accumulate)... now imagine those differing forces being applied by different gear sets to THE SAME axle... instant damage..

Flybacks are different, in that they are designed to disengage the regular motive force before applying the flyback force, and are more complicated for this reason...

[RWG Technical]

Nothing more I can add to the above, they covered it all...

RG

[jaguar2187]

Well...I don't think you need my feedback on "wacking your watch like a mad cow for 3-4 minutes"...and if it's a good thing or not.

RG

The Zigmeister....no pun intended...but on those cold Atlantic nights maybe this is what our dealer friends intended for us to be doin? Eh? And, not gearin' down!

And, trust me it's still up on a website close to us all (the procedure I mean..... as described above)

[RWG Technical]

Ziggy....no pun intended...but on those cold Atlantic nights maybe this is what our dealer friends intended for us to be doin? Eh? And, not gearin' down!

And, trust me it's still up on a website close to us all (the procedure I mean..... as described above)

Yes those cold Atlantic nights can be made all that much better cuddling up next to a cow...

I wrote up a detailed owners manual for mechanical watches (under the Wiki section) to help members avoid the slapping like a cow procedure.

I don't understand why the dealers don't simply use that information on their own sites instead of crap info that can damage the watch.

RG

[Nightstroker]

I found this on the ETA HK site....good to know stuff about 7750 kind movements....

[Sailinjack]

Yes those cold Atlantic nights can be made all that much better cuddling up next to a cow...

I wrote up a detailed owners manual for mechanical watches (under the Wiki section) to help members avoid the slapping like a cow procedure.

I don't understand why the dealers don't simply use that information on their own sites instead of crap info that can damage the watch.

RG

The Zigmeister you are great at what you do and what you know. I truly appreciate your work and the time you spend on this site. But indeed the above noted information that was listed on three websites(the one that was copied in this thread is still out there and is a direct copy/paste from one of our respected dealer's website) It has since been removed from his site. I too read it and was asking myself ....can this be for real?

I think we all know that rough treatment of any of these watches can lead but to problems down the road.

Maybe it's a marketing strategy on their part. When the watch gets 'wacked' ala Tony Soprano... we buy another to replace it!