What's your experience with ETA 2836-2 clones?

[bklm1234]

My supplier told me he offered ETA 2836-2 clones a while back. I wasn't interested because the price difference wasn't that much. But with ETA movement cost going up and the weak Dollar, the difference is now $60+. If it's really good, it is worth the savings. If you own one, pls share your experience. Thanks.

-bk

[Corgi]

Reliability is hit-or-miss. You could have one that runs for decades or one that runs for two months. Also, spare parts for genuine ETA products (especially popular movements) are very readily available while clones (especially chinese ones) are almost impossible to repair locally...

In my opinion if you have the option of getting an ETA placed into your watch as opposed to a clone, get a genuine ETA - but make sure it's a genuine article (and appropriately priced for its condition; that means not a surplus or refurbished model.) So if you're buying from China always go for the cheaper option in my opinion..... honesty does not seem to be plentiful with many manufacturers and distributors over there (although many are genuinely reputable businesses)

[jdavis]

As I recall The Zigmeister did a report on these movements a while ago. The 2836-2 clone was so close to the genuine that unless you knew the little details to look for, it was all but impossible to distinguish it from the genuine. Unless my memory has failed me, The Zigmeister stated that the parts were interchangeable with the genuine ETA 2836. I have one that came in a Sub that I believe is a clone. It has performed perfectly for the past 6 months or so. I think that many people mistakenly confuse the Asian 21J movements with the ETA clones when in fact, they are not similar.

Edited May 1, 2008 by jdavis

[robj]

As I recall The Zigmeister did a report on these movements a while ago. The 2836-2 clone was so close to the genuine that unless you knew the little details to look for, it was all but impossible to distinguish it from the genuine. Unless my memory has failed me, The Zigmeister stated that the parts were interchangeable with the genuine ETA 2836. I have one that came in a Sub that I believe is a clone. It has performed perfectly for the past 6 months or so. I think that many people mistakenly confuse the Asian 21J movements with the ETA clones when in fact, they are not similar.

Yes there are a load of 21j Chinese movements and the quality varies from rubbish to very good right now the dg2813 and 4813 seem to be an excellent alternative to the ETA or ETA clone

[Jimmythree]

I had one about a year ago. I traded it and the winding rotor fell off. The guy brought it back, I dug the rotor screw out, put the rotor on and it never came back. It ran OK...gained a little.

Having said that...I do not want another one because like the man said...they are hit or miss and no parts. No parts is a real problem because it makes the movement worthless if anything goes wrong and a part is needed. According to the teardown of one on TZUK, pivot sizes etc are different from eta and will not interchange.

If they were $25 or $35 like other China movements they would be OK...but at eta prices...forget it.

When I read about someone passinng them off as 'Swiss Eta' I get a little bit red in the face.

Imho they are nothing more than $35 fake eta movements and should be used in $125 fake watches.

Why not just make fake rolex movements?

Edited May 1, 2008 by Jimmythree

[alligoat]

I got the River noob w/ the eta clone about a year ago and it's worked fine. I paid $99. Put a gen crown, aftermarket tube, a better pearl and trimmed the cg's. It's a great beater, and is WR to boot.

Like jimmythree says though, if you need a part for it, you're pretty much SOL. But my watchmaker has serviced a couple of chinese movts for me, no reason he couldn't service this one if it needed it- you just take your chances.

I'd probably buy a clone over an asian movt if it was only $25-30 more. True ETA's typically add $100 to the price.

[FxrAndy]

I am sure that ziggy noted that in most cases the eta parts will fit the clone, not much of a "clone" other wise, they are proberbly made on ex ETA machinery any way, ziggy what is your take on this?

[arminvanbuuren]

yep i have an eta clone noob too.. and it's worked flawlessly.. the only reason i like these eta clones then the 21j movement is the fact that it has 28800bph AND also not a very noisy rotor like the 21j.. so if you could get these movements.. well at least 1.. i would love to buy the LV version.. u know i've been waiting for the LV version of bkmariner in asian movement for a long time (i can't really afford the eta )

[jdavis]

I am sure that The Zigmeister noted that in most cases the eta parts will fit the clone, not much of a "clone" other wise, they are proberbly made on ex ETA machinery any way, The Zigmeister what is your take on this?

Exactly Andy. That is why they are called clones because they are an exact copy of the genuine ETA . I think that some of the posters are confusing the

ETA clone with the DG2813 movements found in the Noob as well as others.

[FxrAndy]

Well we knew this would happen when they were desribed as Eta 2813, and asian eta by the sellers, I would be happy with the clone just as i am more than happy with seagull ST18, a clone of the 2892, although a little less dodgy, if i know who was selling the clone movement wholesale i would be tempted to get a couple, i have a project in mind and my first choice is the ST18, never even crossed my mind to get an ETA for it and it wont. I think the problem with the clone is not one of manufature but of QC same with all our problems. These will never get the same QC as a ligitimatly bought movement as they all go out the back door and no one is looking for a QC stamp, but buy an ST18 from cousins for a little less than and ETA 2824 and you have some gaurentee. Same if cousins could get the 2824 clone.

[Jimmythree]

quote =

I am sure that The Zigmeister noted that in most cases the eta parts will fit the clone, not much of a "clone" other wise, they are proberbly made on ex ETA machinery any way, The Zigmeister what is your take on this?

/quote

The only thing I know about the 2836 clone made by Sea-Gull is from reading this:

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f...p;sk=t&sd=a

The 2836 clone at the top of the post is like the one I had with the rotor that fell off...it had the fancy decoration etc with rolex type cutouts in the rotor. I have never had one apart to see what will interchange but the guy who wrote the TZUK article said not much will. I do not know.

I also seriously doubt the clones are made on Swiss machinery as the Swiss are finally figuring out that China will sooner or later be a huge threat to the Swiss watch business. The ST19 (Venus 175 clone) may be built on Swiss machine tools but Venus sold the machinery because they no longer needed it. If they thought it would ever be a threat to "Swiss Watches", they would never have sold the machinery.

Why?

Because time goes by and things change...

Late 1970s:

Japanese quartz watches knock the Swiss watch business flat without warning.

Example: The new quartz Seiko Astron was selling for $2000+/- while the average Swiss mechanical watch was around $150+/-.

Early 1980s:

The Swiss started making quartz watches and movements to stay alive but quartz watches were getting cheaper at the retail level every month.

Mid 1980s:

Rolex and a few others stick with mechanical watches while pumping out all kinds of propaganda about "Swiss Tradition", "Swiss Quality" etc in an effort to make people want obsolete Swiss mechanical watches again.

Rolex had a quartz watch but it did not sell...probably because the second hand jumped just like a $15 quartz watch.

Late 1980s:

It's working!...brand new "obsolete" mechanical Swiss watches that went unsold for $200 in the late 1970s are selling like hot cakes for $3000 retail.

1990s:

Swiss mechanical watches are making a huge comeback as collectors run auction prices higher and higher and the Swiss brands are jacking retail prices up!, up!, up!

The mecnanical "Swiss Made" watch business comes back from the brink of destruction.

Many "Swiss Made" watches had German, French, HK etc cases in the 1960s and 1970s so in the 1980s and 1990s many Greedy Swiss Watch Companies keep making "Swiss Made" watches with more and more non Swiss components...mostly China made cases, bracelets, dials etc to save $$ on production cost and increase profit.

The Swiss set the stage for this years ago by lowering "Swiss Made" standards so they could use non Swiss cases, bracelets, dials etc and still claim the watch to be "Swiss Made".

Keep in mind that with the lower "Swiss Made" standards...they can now sell a Chinese watch with a Swiss movement and still claim it is "Swiss Made".

1990s revisited:

Good news! Computer design and computer driven machine tools make watches cheaper to make than ever...stick a chunk of metal in the machine and stand back!

Bad news...The internet is growing by leaps and bounds and the "Swiss Made" 51% Rule (by value) plus "Swiss Assembled and Adjusted" scam comes to light world wide.

...people begin to notice "Made in China" stamped on the bracelet of their new $4000 "Swiss Watch".

2000s:

Now that China is beginning to make better movements, the Swiss are finally waking up and start working on rule changes so the watch has to be 80% "Swiss" (by value = Swiss assembled and adjusted) rather than 51%. (they are also beginning to wonder if China just might be able to make complete high grade watches someday)

Good news?

Probably not...the Swiss will probably just use cheaper and cheaper non Swiss made cases, bracelets etc to lower the ratio to 20% in value.

"Assembled in Switzerland" = stick a few screws in the movement and slap it in the case.

"Adjusted in Switzerland" = make sure it runs.

2005 - 2011:

Swatch decides to cut off movement kits to watch brands outside the Swatch Group and limit the supply of complete movements.

Early 2008:

Eta 2836 jumps from $75 to $175, Eta 2892 jumps from $125 to $225 and supplies are way down.

The Chinese (Sea-Gull) have started making 2836 and 2892 "clones" and watch makers are putting them in watches.

Good news? Yes!...but only if they make the movements to a high standard and stamp Sea-Gull under tha balance wheel and on the winding rotor.

Bad news? Yes again!...unless you like fake "Eta" stamped movements with hair and dirt but no oil...at Eta prices. This is the problem.

Finally!

Why do I think Eta clones are not being made using Swiss machine tools?

Because all this can not make the Swiss very happy so I doubt they sold Sea-Gull the machinery to do it with.

[perry563]

BK:

You produce works of art with attention to detail This is something that is greatly missing from most all rep watches. I respectfully submit that only swiss ETA 2836 should reside within such masterpieces.

[Jimmythree]

Another eta clone...

http://hangzhouwatch.com/product_view.asp?id=56

[alligoat]

Interesting stuff, Jimmy. The clones are coming, the clones are coming!

But maybe with a servicing, they will be a good alternative to the ETA's- and of course, I'm convinced that the surplus ETA's could use a servicing also.

[AMK000]

For example , 2836-2 clones and modified, is a NO GO for GMT movement.

They give only problems.