Read this before you opt for an ETA movement

[jnkay]

I recently ordered a GMT-IIc with gen ETA movement from one of the long time collectors. Watchsmith opened the back, studied the movement for a bit and said it looked genuine. Then he took off the dial and determined it was 100% Asian. Just like the watches themselves, what the Chinese seem to have done is to rep the part of the eta movement that you can see from removing the caseback, but they haven't put the same effort into accurately copying the guts of it. According to the watchsmith, there are several discrepancies deeper into the movement. "They took shortcuts" was his comment.

The moral of the story is, I'm not so sure you can tell for certain whether you really got a genuine ETA just by opening the case back. The Zigmeister has also said in an"about eta" post that you can't necessarily rely on one or two minor things like whether a gear is polished or not, but you have to look throughout the movement to determine authenticity.

You might think twice about paying extra for a genuine eta unless you are one of the few here that have advanced skills and knowledge, or you plan on taking it to a watchsmith for verification, and feel comfortable that your dealer will make things right if the item was misrepresented or "he accidentally shipped the wrong version." Another reason to think twice is that the modifications to the movement are asian, and those parts cannot be sourced by a watchsmith, even if the bulk of the movement is genuine eta.

For whatever it is worth, I did have the guy overhaul the asian movement, and he felt that the Chinese did a decent job of copying the eta, and that it was worth servicing as opposed to "don't mess with it and keep your fingers crossed."

[Pugwash]

Then he took off the dial and determined it was 100% Asian.

100%?

Firstly, first thing he'll see when he takes the dial off is the Asian GMT conversion. Under that, it should still be ETA.

[jnkay]

100%?

Firstly, first thing he'll see when he takes the dial off is the Asian GMT conversion. Under that, it should still be ETA.

It wasn't. GMT conversion aside, it wasn't a swiss ETA.

[coolfire]

It wasn't. GMT conversion aside, it wasn't a swiss ETA.

Now that's interesting. I thought that only the conversion was Asian.

[alligoat]

I'm not surprised. I think this is going to continue happening and I don't know what you can do about it. I'm not sure there is even much the dealers can do unless they check each watch and even that may not be enough as you indicated- looks good from the case back side, but....

As true Swiss ETAs become harder to source and more expensive, it might not be a bad idea to pick up a few of the surplus ETAs from someone like Jules Borel while they are cheap ($70+). That way, if you really like a watch, you can swap movements. You're lucky your watchmaker serviced your asian ETA- I've read it can be tricky and sort of hit or miss when it comes to adjusting the timing.

[JohnG]

If what you say is true then you should name the dealer.

I am tired of playing guessing games when it comes to who is supplying fake ETA's. We should all name and shame when there is clear evidence of fraud - so that other members can make INFORMED decisions about who to buy from.

Thanks!

[jdavis]

I'm not surprised. I think this is going to continue happening and I don't know what you can do about it. I'm not sure there is even much the dealers can do unless they check each watch and even that may not be enough as you indicated- looks good from the case back side, but....

As true Swiss ETAs become harder to source and more expensive, it might not be a bad idea to pick up a few of the surplus ETAs from someone like Jules Borel while they are cheap ($70+). That way, if you really like a watch, you can swap movements. You're lucky your watchmaker serviced your asian ETA- I've read it can be tricky and sort of hit or miss when it comes to adjusting the timing.

You won't be able to buy and ETA for $70 brom Juels Borel. They haven't updated the price on the web pages. You can get the current price by placing the

movement in your cart, then check your price. A 2836-2 now runs just over $125.00.

[RobbieG]

Yeah, sore subject. I'll largely stay out of it this time as my ETA thread caused enough heat on its own, but suffice it to say this issue will I'm sure be ongoing and probably continue to be a moving target as well, meaning I'm betting the visual cues will widen and change on the fly. To that end it will be tough to pinpoint or blame any dealer or factory as it may get to a point where even experts won't be able to keep up with the differences...

[Fireman_Fred]

If what you say is true then you should name the dealer.

I am tired of playing guessing games when it comes to who is supplying fake ETA's. We should all name and shame when there is clear evidence of fraud - so that other members can make INFORMED decisions about who to buy from.

Thanks!

Some of the dealers advertise their movements as just "ETA", missing off the word "Swiss" but I notice that Paul (Pam111) now puts "Asia ETA" in most of his ads.... At least he's being honest !!

[iceberg1127]

when eta stops producing blank movements in i believe 2010, (most likely b/c of replicas ) it will be impossible to get replicas with swiss movements, unless they are able to find another swiss based company that will sell in bulk. the whole point of the original reps with swiss movements is because when they came out the watches we had before were crap. since then, many years have gone by and the reps have gotten a 10000000000000 % better.

as long as a watch runs and has few quality control issues, I really dont care what movement is in there. of course I would prefer swiss, but I would also prefer a gen ap RO, so we cant always get prefection

[Pugwash]

when eta stops producing blank movements in i believe 2010, (most likely b/c of replicas ) it will be impossible to get replicas with swiss movements

This is not true. We've had it refuted by many people who should know.

[JohnG]

This is not true. We've had it refuted by many people who should know.

Yup. I wish people would stop repeating this - it is now like the 20 foot albino alligator living in NYC's sewer system.

[RobbieG]

Yes, even I know that...er...I think...ebauches have nothing to do with the rest of ETA's business. Seriously though, I would love to see more Seagull presence going forward. Those movements are dirt cheap and largely reliable.

Hey, as a side note I'm looking over my current gen sports watch collection and notcing how ETA ebauche populated it is and wondering if watches with ETA ebauches will become collectable in their own right someday seeing how they won't be built anymore? Wishful thinking I'm sure but I've grown sort of attached to wonderful chronometers born of 7750, 2892 & 2824 ebauches. Kind of sad to see them go. When Breitling for example finishes with a 2824 buildup it becomes a work of art suitable for a lifetime...

Edited August 3, 2008 by RobbieG

[blade007]

as long as a watch runs and has few quality control issues, I really dont care what movement is in there. of course I would prefer swiss, but I would also prefer a gen ap RO, so we cant always get prefection

i bet u care that - the price u paid was for a GEN ETA and what u got was a copy. a bit like u having paid the price for a GEN AP-RO and getting a rep? same principle mate. the sooner we ditch "i dont care yada yada" the better for all of us. There has to be honesty and transparency about what we are buying. This isnt disposable pocket money for some of us.

[iceberg1127]

yes, I agree with that. I my self have paid a premium for what I thought was swiss only to find out it was asian. what I meant was if the watch was advertised as asian and the quality was good I would not mind purchasing one of those. as for the eta movements I am sorry if I was saying wrong information, what is the real story?