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What are we going to do about these high prices?


ajoesmith

Are Reps prices too high recently?  

130 members have voted

  1. 1. Are Reps prices too high recently?

    • Yes
      116
    • No
      14


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Posted this on RG and think it cold do with some input here as some members are not members or RG

ok recently the prices of reps have increased dramatically

I know, I know its up to the person if they want to buy or not BUT

IM I ALONE IN THINKING THEY ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE?

If they continue to rise what are we all going to do?

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The price increases have led me to only buy from other board members to reduce the risk. Also finding that I can obtain interesting gens (especially if not most popular model/style) for less than reps. So I'm experimenting more with them. My limit is in the $300-400 range, tops for a rep (though I've spent more on acouple with mods included). Frankly, I've had the most fun with some of the under $100 specials that I'll give to a client as a gift and always get a great wow.

Will I pay $6-700 -- not yet.

There's not much to do about the pricing asthe market is apparently supporting these levels....

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Posted this on RG and think it cold do with some input here as some members are not members or RG

ok recently the prices of reps have increased dramatically

I know, I know its up to the person if they want to buy or not BUT

IM I ALONE IN THINKING THEY ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE?

If they continue to rise what are we all going to do?

Everything seems to be getting more expensive lately. Fortunately, watches are not a necessity as are food, shelter, fuel, etc. so, if you are feeling pinched, the only recourse that you have to cut back and only buy what you can afford. Of course, you could start up the old thread about boycotting dealers who you feel are charging too much. But....I think that has been tried before.

If you think about it, we have demanded a lot from our dealers. By and large they have responded by providing us with some great reps. However, getting the manufacturers to tool up for more exact work requires money up front by the dealers making the request. I suspect that J and A have had quite a bit of out of pocket expense to get some of the reps created and produced. Naturally, these costs are passed on to consumers. Certainly, dealers are making money but, they have to put up with a great deal to earn it. Rude or ill informed customers, competition, customs, manufacturer's schedules, shippers, and local law enforcement are just part of the equation. Prices are established accordingly. Whether or not they are fair is up to the buyer to decide and that will control the market.

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Ive altogether stopped buying reps. Im now buying and modding Seikos. They are cheap and fun. Most importantly theres no QC issues, no being squeezed by cartel pricing monopolies and nomore funding criminal syndicates.

I look at some of the new reps that look like small cyborg planets or are the size of a babies head and dont feel the urge to rush out and buy them any longer let alone want to wear them

So the only thing to do about the ever increasing prices of replica watches is dont buy them and see for the money what gens you could purchase.

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Posted this on RG and think it cold do with some input here as some members are not members or RG

ok recently the prices of reps have increased dramatically

I know, I know its up to the person if they want to buy or not BUT

IM I ALONE IN THINKING THEY ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE?

If they continue to rise what are we all going to do?

Heaven forbid someone should even suggest they are too expensive or that would should stop buying them in protest. The last time I suggested that, some numbnut called Magagne busted my balls on it (even though he ultimately agreed with me).

Seriously though, the rep prices are going stupid and that's not all, we are getting substandard movements in the watches sold as genuine ETAs. Either we all do what you did and quit this hobby or we just suck it in and soldier it. I have most of the reps I wanted when I started out on this hobby a year ago and these days it has to be pretty special before I even consider shelling out and if I liked a watch that much, I'd buy the gen.

My suggestion is stop buying for a while. Eventually the prices will go down due to diminished demand.

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The biggest problem is not only the prices for the reps themselves, but the cost to have them serviced after the purchase.

Lets say that you have purchased a new rep and you really want it to last (forever). So lets say you spent 300.00. In order to make it last you send it to Mr. Z. well then that SOSF is now worth 450.00. Or if t is a MBK PPN, it now costs 600.00. And wow, if it is a HBB then oh wow, it is now 1150.00. Duh, that is a lot of money. No warranty.

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I think it's a catch 22 situation. On the one hand we all want 'superreps' that are cosmetically 99,99% accurate. On the other hand we don't wanna spend more money, which is needed to invest in a gen to make the rep 99,99% accurate... And in the case of the new AP the factory even had to invest in developing a 7750 secs @12 movement.

It's simple economics.... Do we really wanna go back to reps with standard movements copied from pictures??

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I think it's a catch 22 situation. On the one hand we all want 'superreps' that are cosmetically 99,99% accurate. On the other hand we don't wanna spend more money, which is needed to invest in a gen to make the rep 99,99% accurate... And in the case of the new AP the factory even had to invest in developing a 7750 secs @12 movement.

It's simple economics.... Do we really wanna go back to reps with standard movements copied from pictures??

It is not like the genuinhe they used for replication afterwards can be tossed in th trash? After replication they reassemble the genuine piece and sell it. The investment is not that high, maybe the time and effort it takes to source the genuine.

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Posted this on RG and think it cold do with some input here as some members are not members or RG

ok recently the prices of reps have increased dramatically

I know, I know its up to the person if they want to buy or not BUT

IM I ALONE IN THINKING THEY ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE?

If they continue to rise what are we all going to do?

Joe, one I'm a little surprised you posted this as didn't I recall you posting a couple of days ago you were getting out of this hobby? Or was that a reaction to this issue here?

FWIW I don't think there's been any dramatic rise in prices, just the steady trickle trickle increases over the past 18 months or so. $240 became $268 became $318 etc and so on. Cost of raw materials, weakness of US dollar, price-fixing by the Cartel dealers, whatever....it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

I would however, say that the quality we're seeing now is now consistently a notch or so above what we saw 2 years ago, but in the end you either pay to play or you don't. I think we all know what is beyond the pale when it comes to pricing (the A7750 $600+ reps) and I think the makers have realised that, which is why we're seeing some excellent sub-400 reps - that seems to be the upper limit for high quality, high volume sales right now.

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I realize what I am about to say will be considered heresy by many, but, other than the value of many homes, what is not going up in price these days?

Petroleum is at record levels, food is following a similar trajectory & many of the gen watch makers increased their prices across the board late last year with even higher increases (due to higher transportation costs & the falling dollar) being projected for sometime before the end of this year. The fact is that rep watches, like their gen counterparts, have always been overpriced. And when we ask the rep factories to make us more accurate reps with more complicated movements for the same price we paid last year (or whenever), I think we are deluding ourselves. You cannot have it both ways.

I have said it before & I will say it again - I think the price we pay for some of the better reps is a steal. Yes, there will be mechanical issues when we ask the factories to reproduce all of the functions of a complicated movement from an $8k-$10k+ watch that we buy for a few hundred dollars (the secs at 6 A7750 or GMTIIC immediately come to mind). But, overall, most of the reps we get from our in-house collectors are extremely accurate (visually & mechanically) & will easily fool all but the most hard-core WIS or collector. Man, I still remember the utter rubbish I was buying 25 years ago for $200 a pop (& that was in 1980s dollars!!!!!!!), but it was state of the art back then & we were happy to get that.

datejust-tt.jpg

(The 1st 'quality' rep I ever purchased & 1 of the 1st ETA powered reps with 'Real' gold plating to enter the US)

SwissEnterprizes1987pricelist.jpg

(The watch above is 201-214 - 'L' = $225 in 1987)

Todays reps have come so far that it never ceases to amaze me how gen-like some of these rep watches really are.

dinnerwithjan0021.jpg

Am I the only 1 who appreciates this?

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It is not like the genuinhe they used for replication afterwards can be tossed in th trash? After replication they reassemble the genuine piece and sell it. The investment is not that high, maybe the time and effort it takes to source the genuine.

Also don't forget that not every new release is a succes, which also will be reflected in the prices of all new reps.

And I doubt it that the re-assembled gens can be sold without a substantial loss...

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How about your own prices Ajoe?

- PAM27 original price 650$ + a few parts and mods worth ~400$(extra dial and hands + a relume) -> Your initial asking price ~1400$

- Pam 29 original price ~600$ + a few parts worth ~200$ (gen crown + cyclops) -> Your initial asking price 1200$

- Pam 63 original price ~ 600$ + a few parts worth ~200$ (gen crown + cyclops) -> Your initial asking price 1200$

Seems to be very hypocritical of you flaming the dealers for asking high prices for there pieces, while you are taking advantage of these piece being rare and selling them at astronomical prices.

Edited by ravishingrick
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:lol:. At the end of the day anyone's opinion is only relevant to the extent that you do or don't buy a watch. Price versus value will always be subjective. And with most $600+ reps your choices are buy the rep, buy the gen for $7,000 plus, buy nothing or buy a $600 gen. Vote with your pocketbook not your mouth if you are unhappy. The $300 rep of 2 years ago escalates to $450 on currency alone and closer to $500 when factoring in material inflation. Now add-in a dedicated movement, actually printing an accurate date wheel, etc. Anyone noticed what has happened to the price of steel over the last two years? IMHO, the rep industry has never been better. We are beginning to see multiple choices at different price points for far more sophisticated watches than we ever could have dreamed of 2-3 years ago. Want a good HBB rep buy the $600+ version. Want to spend less - buy the lite for a lot less. And yes, of course I wish prices were lower. I am buying fewer reps and more carefully. But I don't kid myself, as the market grows so does its sophistication. And everyone can kid themselves that we are such large part of the market. It is a huge market.
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I think 'high prices' is subjective. It depends on the watch (level of accuracy, etc) and the dealer.

As I just posted in 'other brands', I didn't think $108 for my wifes Crazy Hours was unreasonable. It looks nice, and, as far as I know, keeps reasonable time. Bearing in mind that it is also an automatic movement, with a complication (the jumping hours) I'd say that was a very reasonable price... I paid more for my 104, and that just tells the time in the traditional manner ;):lol:

If people don't want to pay the higher price, they can always just look around for better deals :good:

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I think it's a catch 22 situation. On the one hand we all want 'superreps' that are cosmetically 99,99% accurate. On the other hand we don't wanna spend more money, which is needed to invest in a gen to make the rep 99,99% accurate... And in the case of the new AP the factory even had to invest in developing a 7750 secs @12 movement.

It's simple economics.... Do we really wanna go back to reps with standard movements copied from pictures??

I can understand and agree with you this but I also have to disagree for a part.

Wasn't a gen bought to make a rep in earlier times too?

In percentage the cost between the gens-reps now and then don't differ that much I think

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The prices are out of control and they do not need to be. The reason is GREED.. nothing else..

And any of you who say that this is not really the case... I'll put my money where my mouth is and prove it to all of you.

It is price fixing and greed.

Want proof??? Stay tuned...

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How about your own prices Ajoe?

- PAM27 original price 650$ + a few parts and mods worth ~400$(extra dial and hands + a relume) -> Your initial asking price ~1400$

- Pam 29 original price ~600$ + a few parts worth ~200$ (gen crown + cyclops) -> Your initial asking price 1200$

- Pam 63 original price ~ 600$ + a few parts worth ~200$ (gen crown + cyclops) -> Your initial asking price 1200$

Seems to be very hypocritical of you flaming the dealers for asking high prices for there pieces, while you are taking advantage of these piece being rare and selling them at astronomical prices.

Good point. Resale prices are going up as well. Justified? <_<

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The prices are out of control and they do not need to be. The reason is GREED.. nothing else..

And any of you who say that this is not really the case... I'll put my money where my mouth is and prove it to all of you.

It is price fixing and greed.

Want proof??? Stay tuned...

More drama....Can't wait :p

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Wasn't a gen bought to make a rep in earlier times too?

In percentage the cost between the gens-reps now and then don't differ that much I think

No, they repped it from several pics from internet :lol: hence all the terrible flaws in the past.

The percentage in costs between gens-reps is still about the same since most brands have also raised the price of the gens. It's called inflation and a weak dollar...

As Freddy and Kruzer already said, reps have never been better and more accurate than today.

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It's pretty simple -

If you don't like the price of certain new or resale models....Don't buy them :rolleyes:

If enough people stop buying, sellers (collectors or forum members) will adjust their prices to accomodate the market demand...

We are such a small % of the overall rep watch market, albeit probably a high percentage of our favorite dealers....

Dealers are salespeople....they will adjust prices when people stop buying, deal flow slows down, or competition heats up!

Its the laws of capitalism B)

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