A Question to the Cartel Dealers

[slay]

About a year ago (?) Andrew claimed that Hublot busted the OEM factory and that they can no longer supply OEM ceramic bezels. He said they have about 20 of them left. He said this was the reason for the huge price increase for all ceramic models.

So NOW (half a year, or a year later), Anugs tells us, that (after having various new models, all equiped with so called OEM bezels) NOW they only have 20-30 OEM bezels left.

Okay, so one possibility is, that they only sold 1 or 2 watches within a year, which I find hard to believe. The other posiblity is, that they were either lying back then, or are lying now. Another possibility is, that they never used anything like "OEM ceramic bezels". Or did I miss something?

Fishy? Maybe!

(please dont let this thread run into the [censored] by starting OT discussions!)

[FxrAndy]

There were OEM bezels about because the CEO of Hubly "JCB" went out to the factory in china and was searching the workers himself to find out how were were getting them, this was just after he sent an extended warantee to a "person" who posted a rep on TZ.

What they are using now ?????

[JohnG]

[RobbieG]

[Corgi]

[doc savage]

I think that they got their hands on some OEM bezels a long time ago and the source has long since dried up. They had so much fun selling reps for over $1K that they can't seem to stop.

This ceramic bezel watch from Angus seems like a pretty good deal at $268.

The Big Bangs have always been a good example of the crazy markups we pay for Chinese goods. You should check out a wholesale trade show the next time you want to buy furniture; locally stored imported goods sell for around 20-25% of retail, with no bulk purchase required. The retail price is mainly based on how much your customers have to spend, not the manufacturing costs.

[seanf]

I seem to recall a thread a few months ago where someone confirmed that the whole OEM bezel thing was never accurate, and it was just a marketing gimmick from Jandrew. Does anyone else remember that? Or is it just the seven martinis that I had for lunch talking?

[FxrAndy]

BTW basing my info on this post

[slay]

I seem to recall a thread a few months ago where someone confirmed that the whole OEM bezel thing was never accurate, and it was just a marketing gimmick from Jandrew. Does anyone else remember that? Or is it just the seven martinis that I had for lunch talking?

Thats also what I believe. I cant say if its true or not, because I dont know, noone of us knows for sure besides JC Biver and the HBB maker.

I somehow cant see how the factory would

a) sell those things to a replica maker and risking the Hublot contract

why the HBB maker wouldnt just have someone else make this bezel. I'm sure there's lots of factories who can make the bezel for much less than the OEM factory. I mean the OEM factory definitely has higher QC standarts than any other factory.

Or is the Rolex rep factory also asking the Rolex-Insert-Factory for OEM inserts?!? I think not!

And from first hand experience I have learned that this whole "they sneaked some items out of the OEM factory" is a bunch of [censored]. Thats the same lie I fell for when I bought those golf clubs (call me stupid, but I trusted other members here who falsely confirmed the authenticity!)

[FxrAndy]

Or is the Rolex rep factory also asking the Rolex-Insert-Factory for OEM inserts?!? I think not!

If Rolex had parts made in China there would be a good chance of it!

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

So how long is it going to be before we realize that none of the dealers are going to reply to this inquiry????

[Dutchy]

So how long is it going to be before we realize that none of the dealers are going to reply to this inquiry????

Oh come on, be a bit more optimistic....they might reply....

The answer will probably be BS though

[Ztech]

I've got my popcorn and booze ready.

[letter]

My offsite dealer told me the more expensive ceramic bezels were from Korea.

don't know how accurate this is however.

[gbc]

Thats also what I believe. I cant say if its true or not, because I dont know, noone of us knows for sure besides JC Biver and the HBB maker.

I somehow cant see how the factory would

a) sell those things to a replica maker and risking the Hublot contract

why the HBB maker wouldnt just have someone else make this bezel. I'm sure there's lots of factories who can make the bezel for much less than the OEM factory. I mean the OEM factory definitely has higher QC standarts than any other factory.

Or is the Rolex rep factory also asking the Rolex-Insert-Factory for OEM inserts?!? I think not!

And from first hand experience I have learned that this whole "they sneaked some items out of the OEM factory" is a bunch of [censored]. Thats the same lie I fell for when I bought those golf clubs (call me stupid, but I trusted other members here who falsely confirmed the authenticity!)

In China - anything that is worthwhile copying ... will!

A German engineer related how he stumbled on to what he thought was one of his machines in a tradeshow in China. To his horror he discovered it was 1:1 copy - shape, decals, fucntionality ... they even copied exactly the bolts & screws that put the contraption together! Machine sold at 1/4 the price & worked as advertised. He was tempted to quit his job & sell them in the EU. Imagine for price of 1 German machine, you can buy 4 Chinese machines, use 3 to triple your production & keep 1 machine for spares.

Its very common for Western manufacturers who sub-contract their production to China to see ther wares ripped off ... by the very company they subcontracted to. Once they know what to do & how to do it ... they will find innovative ways of increasing their income ie. make it for other people without your knowledge. This is what happened to French a crane manufacurer who saw their products dittoed wholesale & being sold domestically. Rather than threaten to sue like most Americans would do ... they negotiated for the Chinese to make certain of their range & ended making tons of money for both. The French for some reason are very adept at understanding the Chinese ... "If I Can't Stop You, Its Better That I Help You!"

Thats being said ... I do believe the bezel story may have been cooked-uped to push up prices. There has been much cartell bashing but I can also understand why the cartell are trying to raise their prices. Selling reps is not an easy business as one might think. Many dealers have left the industry as it is tough dealing with finicky/dishonest customers with unresaonable expectations. I believe their margins are above a 100% & this due to high service standards expected in the Western world. Look at the post by ex-dealer Eddie Lee where listed all the perils of the rep industry - charge backs, seized goods, unreasonable customers etc. Cusomers expect guarantees from dealers who themselves don't get any from manufacurers ... this will come at a price!

I buy all my reps retail & they are indeed cheaper than the cartell by 30-40% but than again they don't to deal with customs, chargebacks, lost-in-transits, perceived misrepresentations, DOAs etc. I recently got a HBB for about US$400 - ceramic bezel, faux fine reg, double AR, correct font engraved rotor & correct marking caseback. The only issue was the sawtooth & the screw-in crown. The cartell doesn't even have this model yet.

[freddy333]

The retail price is mainly based on how much your customers have to spend, not the manufacturing costs.

Correct & here is something that demonstrates the point --

This Daytona 62xx case set is sold by a small number of sellers for $1,200-$1,650+. All of your DWs or Jewelryandwatch frankens use some variation of this case

Pretty nice, right? Yes, definitely. And if you are a WIS who wants an accurate vintage Daytona franken, you have to pay the price. Right?

Wrong.

This A7750-powered Daytona 62xx rep (with asymmetrical pushers), which comes in the exact same case as the 1 above (both pusher styles are available), is sold by a small number of sellers for between $300-$350

The point is that both cases are exactly the same. The only difference is the price & the (assumed) exclusivity that is (wrongly) associated with the bare case set. I think it was either Avitt, Ubi or Alligoat who once said (correctly) that these cases are worth less than $100 at retail. And I am sure they are routinely being sold for $50 a pop in China. Regardless of the model, the pattern is the same.

[rek001]

Could these bezels be steel with a thin coat of ceramic on them, and how could one tell if they were pure ceramic througout?

[Guest Mr Jones]

Slay :

Two magic words - Marketing & Advertisement ..

Look at past post from Angus he read and try learn this two subjects, and ask us what we think about this or this.

If they told you on begining 'this is ceramic bezel similar like material on Channel J12'

I don't think your appetence to buy this Hublot was this same if they told you 'OEM ceramic bezel from Hublot factory'

Now is difficult to recognize 'polish PVD bezel' and 'polish ceramic bezel' , now I hear we have two different quality of ceramic case new Hublots one is better [of course default you think this which is more expensive] and after same time we will see thread compare of Full & Light ceramic version or Vn contra Vn+1 version and conclusion THIS is this same watch.

[slay]

Correct & here is something that demonstrates the point --

This Daytona 62xx case set is sold by a small number of sellers for $1,200-$1,650+. All of your DWs or Jewelryandwatch frankens use some variation of this case

Pretty nice, right? Yes, definitely. And if you are a WIS who wants an accurate vintage Daytona franken, you have to pay the price. Right?

Wrong.

This A7750-powered Daytona 62xx rep (with asymmetrical pushers), which comes in the exact same case as the 1 above (both pusher styles are available), is sold by a small number of sellers for between $300-$350

The point is that both cases are exactly the same. The only difference is the price & the (assumed) exclusivity that is (wrongly) associated with the bare case set. I think it was either Avitt, Ubi or Alligoat who once said (correctly) that these cases are worth less than $100 at retail. And I am sure they are routinely being sold for $50 a pop in China. Regardless of the model, the pattern is the same.

you're missing the big point here, the subdial spacing on the A7750 is WAY off.

Edited August 15, 2008 by slay

[slay]

Slay :

Two magic words - Marketing & Advertisement ..

Look at past post from Angus he read and try learn this two subjects, and ask us what we think about this or this.

If they told you on begining 'this is ceramic bezel similar like material on Channel J12'

I don't think your appetence to buy this Hublot was this same if they told you 'OEM ceramic bezel from Hublot factory'

Now is difficult to recognize 'polish PVD bezel' and 'polish ceramic bezel' , now I hear we have two different quality of ceramic case new Hublots one is better [of course default you think this which is more expensive] and after same time we will see thread compare of Full & Light ceramic version or Vn contra Vn+1 version and conclusion THIS is this same watch.

i never fell for this lie. never. i always said it was bullcrap and i always said those watches are overpriced!

[Mickey Padge]

Nobody ever 100% confirmed the golf clubs were authentic in the original golf clubs thread, and in the same way, nobody has, or even can confirm these HBB bezels are OEM....

I see no way of confirming authenticity of a ceramic HBB bezel, unless you removed one from a genuine to compare, and even then, how could you tell unless there was a hidden manufacturing mark?

Cheers!

[slay]

Nobody ever 100% confirmed the golf clubs were authentic in the original golf clubs thread, and in the same way, nobody has, or even can confirm these HBB bezels are OEM....

I see no way of confirming authenticity of a ceramic HBB bezel, unless you removed one from a genuine to compare, and even then, how could you tell unless there was a hidden manufacturing mark?

Cheers!

Yes, someone did say to me the seller&the clubs are legit... dont speak when you have only half the knowledge!

[Mickey Padge]

Yes, someone did say to me the seller&the clubs are legit... dont speak when you have only half the knowledge!

I said in the original thread, and I am correct, nobody in the golf equipment thread ever 100% confirmed the clubs were genuine, we thought they might be and were waiting for somebody to buy a single club to check authenticity, but nobody ever did.......

Anyway regarding the HBB bezels, as I said, there is no way to tell, even with the genuine in hand to dissect and compare how would you know?

Cheers!

[Guest Mr Jones]

Slay : I don't told thay you belive in this all story OEM bezel, but I want explain what they want to make. I see posts where is info that new polished bezels look to much plastic - I have this same feeling and I will order brushed ceramic bezel if I can find it it will be more corectly for my AllBlack version.

For me is not important what was source of this bezels BUT what is quality of duplicate gen bezels.

[slay]

I said in the original thread, and I am correct, nobody in the golf equipment thread ever 100% confirmed the clubs were genuine, we thought they might be and were waiting for somebody to buy a single club to check authenticity, but nobody ever did.......

Anyway regarding the HBB bezels, as I said, there is no way to tell, even with the genuine in hand to dissect and compare how would you know?

Cheers!

So what? Does it matter, if someone from this forum told me in private that those clubs are real? Is that in ANY way contradictory to what I have said so far? Will your input help us to advance on this in ANY way? The answer is NO.

And even in the original thread, noone ever dared to express the thought they might not be legit. Even you were all over them and said "yes yes, me wants them".

But everyone, please, be free to read for yourselves: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...p;hl=golf+clubs

Now someone tell me that you dont get the intention that Mr Mickey Padge wasnt "all over this" and was even agry at me, because I MYSELF was questioning this whole deal!

Rreading all this, in fact, makes me very very angry at you, and I'd probably be all over in your face right now if YOU were in front of me. That you even DARE to open YOUR mouth on this issue again!