cartel/ price increasing

[fotoman]

maybe i'm having alzheimers but i remember getting my swiss steelfish for like 318 + ship and i think i got josh to throw in a leather strap

i just looked, its now 358 + ship

WTF? i should have bought a few and sold them - they would have done better than stocks (if i actually owned any)

am i nuts?

[Rxus]

Your right their is something fishy (no pun intedned) about the steelfish. I mean maybe just maybe if it had correct datefont and the correct flat screws on the bracelet then would i justify the price hike.

Raising the price sure isn't a good way to get rid of those old stocks.

[Dave123]

'cartel'.....this is not drugs.....or is it?.....

Price up on that watch,price down on another watch,BUSINESS.....does anyone here beside me run one?....

The Graham Diver went down a hundred bucks....where is the complaint thread about it?.....

I just bought a HBB 'mellow yellow' from the 'cartel'....bastards sold me it for only $488....it was around $1100 last year.....man,am i pis sed at the price i just paid.....need to start a thread whining about it.....damn 'cartel'......

Edited August 19, 2008 by Dave123

[Dani]

'cartel'.....this is not drugs.....or is it?.....

Price up on that watch,price down on another watch,BUSINESS.....does anyone here beside me run one?....

The Graham Diver went down a hundred bucks....where is the complaint thread about it?.....

I just bought a HBB 'mellow yellow' from the 'cartel'....bastards sold me it for only $488....it was around $1100 last year.....man,am i pis sed at the price i just paid.....need to start a thread whining about it.....damn 'cartel'......

you are just a sheep man if you can't see they are hustling.

business yes, but this and other forums was created to benefit us members from being hustled or scammed hens this thread and why you will not see a thread on the graham going down 100bucks.

Cheers,

Dani

[ta8088]

The majority of what we are all buying these days is overpriced. Asian clones at anything over 200 is overpriced and all the 500 and up A7750's are way overpriced. Wonder how that HBB King is selling at almost 800 (not sure I've seen a single person post that they bought one yet). On the other hand the pricing on the Skylands and SA's seemed pretty fair to me.

[josevancouver]

I run a large operation and yes, prices for services go up in certain areas (based on demand and cost) and some go down.

I don't think you are being a sheep about it Dave

'cartel'.....this is not drugs.....or is it?.....

Price up on that watch,price down on another watch,BUSINESS.....does anyone here beside me run one?....

The Graham Diver went down a hundred bucks....where is the complaint thread about it?.....

I just bought a HBB 'mellow yellow' from the 'cartel'....bastards sold me it for only $488....it was around $1100 last year.....man,am i pis sed at the price i just paid.....need to start a thread whining about it.....damn 'cartel'......

[josevancouver]

how is raising the price on a watch a scam? I'm not suggesting Josh is perfect, but the guy is running a business. If he wants to raise the price on some watches and lower them on others, isn't he just running his business? The last Steelfish I bought was from Narikaa because I like the price better. I didn't do it because I thought Josh was scamming anyone, just that the price was better from Reg.

you are just a sheep man if you can't see they are hustling.

business yes, but this and other forums was created to benefit us members from being hustled or scammed hens this thread and why you will not see a thread on the graham going down 100bucks.

Cheers,

Dani

[fotoman]

would you guys call it a scam if one group was using power to price fix.

the point is in no time over the last 5 years of doing this has one model without any changes go up in price.

itz a scam because we do all the work creating a site and funneling hundreds of people every day to the dealers listed. we make them personally wealthy in china standars and the unwritten contract is they offer fair pricing and no scams. and the ocasional discount.

they rose the price cause they think we can pay more.

we make them rich' they spit in our face raising prices and going after dealers that offer cheaper prices by trying to get the factory to stop selling to discounters like silix

[TeeJay]

In all fairness, an increase by that amount, might be to compensate for the weak dorrar at the moment. Not to defend the Cartel, of course, but, I know prices on things are going up at the moment. Of course, it could be an attempt to sneak in a small price increase, if it's tollerated, increase it a bit more... Thin end of the wedge, and all that... Of course, two sides to every story

[Dani]

how is raising the price on a watch a scam? I'm not suggesting Josh is perfect, but the guy is running a business. If he wants to raise the price on some watches and lower them on others, isn't he just running his business? The last Steelfish I bought was from Narikaa because I like the price better. I didn't do it because I thought Josh was scamming anyone, just that the price was better from Reg.

Hi noob.

Herey herey

I em not talking about all the reps, i em talking about hustling you now like drug dealers giving you cocaine they say is 80% pure and it turns out you paid a premium for 40% crap mixed whit all kind of garbage.

Thats have they are doing on the Asian 7750 they sell you crap for 450-1100$ for the price of Swiss 7750 Quality..

You see this forum is here to help members not dealers if some like Dave enjoy spending and can afford this high priced reps then fine for him but not all can or are willing to spend 700 on something that shoud cost maximum of 400..

My collection is all Swiss movements that can be serviced and use spare parts hens they have some value something a 7750 Asian does not..

Cheers

[TeeJay]

Hi noob.

Herey herey

I em not talking about all the reps, i em talking about hustling you now like drug dealers giving you cocaine they say is 80% pure and it turns out you paid a premium for 40% crap mixed whit all kind of garbage.

Thats have they are doing on the Asian 7750 they sell you crap for 450-1100$ for the price of Swiss 7750 Quality..

You see this forum is here to help members not dealers if some like Dave enjoy spending and can afford this high priced reps then fine for him but not all can or are willing to spend 700 on something that shoud cost maximum of 400..

My collection is all Swiss movements that can be serviced and use spare parts hens they have some value something a 7750 Asian does not..

Cheers

+1

(although only one of my collection has a Swiss movement... The Submariner I never wear because it keeps worse time than my Asians, and, being a sub, looke like a woman's watch compared to a PAM )

[Guest farquar]

Dani I LOVE THE AVATAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!

[luisik]

Hi noob.

Herey herey

I em not talking about all the reps, i em talking about hustling you now like drug dealers giving you cocaine they say is 80% pure and it turns out you paid a premium for 40% crap mixed whit all kind of garbage.

Thats have they are doing on the Asian 7750 they sell you crap for 450-1100$ for the price of Swiss 7750 Quality..

You see this forum is here to help members not dealers if some like Dave enjoy spending and can afford this high priced reps then fine for him but not all can or are willing to spend 700 on something that shoud cost maximum of 400..

My collection is all Swiss movements that can be serviced and use spare parts hens they have some value something a 7750 Asian does not..

Cheers

+1

[Febus]

Pricing information is relevant to the forum and helps strengthen my resolve that I'll never buy anything from 'the cartel'.

Thanks for sharing.

[JohnG]

Hi noob.

Jose is a newcomer to this forum, but not to the hobby. And even if he were, calling attention to someone's low post count in an attempt to undermine their credibility is a favored tactic of the weak-minded. Surely you don't want to be perceived that way... so why not let your arguments stand on their own merit rather than calling someone you disagree with "noob"?

I em not talking about all the reps, i em talking about hustling you now like drug dealers giving you cocaine they say is 80% pure and it turns out you paid a premium for 40% crap mixed whit all kind of garbage.

Thats have they are doing on the Asian 7750 they sell you crap for 450-1100$ for the price of Swiss 7750 Quality..

This is a false analogy. We are talking about the pricing of a watch, not a fraudulent description.

My collection is all Swiss movements that can be serviced and use spare parts hens they have some value something a 7750 Asian does not..

I am a total loss as to what relevance this has to the subject of the thread.

I am NO fan of the cartel and have never purchased from them. And if they attempt to fix pricing or lie about their product I am very quick to speak out. But this thread is about a price increase in a watch. Nothing more. Any dealer can price any watch anyway he or she wishes. As long as there is transparency as to what the product actually IS and they are not trying to force other dealers to similarly increase their price, then there is no legitimate complaint to be made. Calling attention to the fact that a watch is overpriced is appropriate - but insinuating that the act of raising a price, just because you don't like it, constitutes some sort of fraud is beyond silly.

We are all (in theory) adults here and can make informed and responsible choices for ourselves. If you don't like a price, simply buy the watch from someone else.

[jdavis]

I generally try to avoid posting in threads such as this. But...I have to agree with Dave and Jose on this one.

In a free market system (which this is) dealers and producers of products and services have the right to establish a price point that the market will allow.

We as consumers have the right to accept or reject that price by making a purchase or not.

People who whine about a dealer making profit apparently have no basic knowledge about the economics of running a business in a free economy. Unless you adhere to socialist principles, you have no right to dictate how much profit a person or company can make. If you invest your money and efforts in a business and accept the associated risks to provide goods and services as well as providing jobs and economic impact on your community, you deserve to make a profit. As to how much profit, the market will establish that based on demand and other economic factors.

I needed to purchase a new car recently. The car I wanted was in high demand and the dealer had added a "market adjustment" sticker to the price. Should I have cried foul and whined about his excess profit because I want it but, the price is higher than I want to pay? If the dealer can get the "extra" profit he wants, more power to him. However, the market and economy will determine if he will or not. I simply exercised my right to refuse the price and went elsewhere. I may not like this dealer's pricing but he has every right to attempt to establish any price the wishes. .....End Rant !.......

[Flashman]

I agree that the exchange rate could be part of it, but also maybe demand is stronger now than before so they can try their luck a bit to match the supply and demand equilibrium.

[fotoman]

I generally try to avoid posting in threads such as this. But...I have to agree with Dave and Jose on this one.

In a free market system (which this is) dealers and producers of products and services have the right to establish a price point that the market will allow.

We as consumers have the right to accept or reject that price by making a purchase or not.

People who whine about a dealer making profit apparently have no basic knowledge about the economics of running a business in a free economy. Unless you adhere to socialist principles, you have no right to dictate how much profit a person or company can make. If you invest your money and efforts in a business and accept the associated risks to provide goods and services as well as providing jobs and economic impact on your community, you deserve to make a profit. As to how much profit, the market will establish that based on demand and other economic factors.

I needed to purchase a new car recently. The car I wanted was in high demand and the dealer had added a "market adjustment" sticker to the price. Should I have cried foul and whined about his excess profit because I want it but, the price is higher than I want to pay? If the dealer can get the "extra" profit he wants, more power to him. However, the market and economy will determine if he will or not. I simply exercised my right to refuse the price and went elsewhere. I may not like this dealer's pricing but he has every right to attempt to establish any price the wishes. .....End Rant !.......

What your not getting is, we create their business - this isn't a free market were in - its fish in a barrel - and to jack up prices on your fish, that you didn't create or maintain - but someone maintaines them for you - its pretty F-d up to jack up prices, and try to fix high prices.

For all you free market-eers read the old cartel threads from last year.

josh and andrew and sometimes king and angus are trying to create a monopoly situation and cartel style price fixing.

and keeping the prices hIGH - the market doesn't have much to do with it, especially if the factory is involved - and clearly some of them are.

dollar shamller - reps GO DOWN in price when they have been around for awhile not UP!!!

[andreww]

Sure some watches have come down in price, the Skyland for example. Lets not forget that Josh originally listed it at almost $300, now I see it being offered at $167 in the group buy. Believe me, whoever is supplying it at that price is still making money. Also, if there hadn't been competition between two different factories for the Skyland, would it have been priced at less than $300? I think not. To compare this to any other business is not right. In what other business does the customer (us) do and pay for virtually all the marketing? The issue is not whether the cartel chooses to raise their prices, its whether they force others to follow in their footsteps.

I see this hobby going more underground than it already is. There are dealers out there that will supply the same watches at far reduced prices than what any of our "trusted dealers" will sell them for, and there are a large group of members that have started using their services. No fancy websites, no dealer listings, just reasonable prices.

As a community, we hold the power. We can as a group decide what is fair and what is not. But, unfortunately there is a large group that feels that whatever the cartel wants to charge is their right, and they will pay it.

[JohnG]

josh and andrew and sometimes king and angus are trying to create a monopoly situation and cartel style price fixing.

and keeping the prices hIGH - the market doesn't have much to do with it, especially if the factory is involved - and clearly some of them are.

If there is evidence that Josh and Andrew are pressuring other dealers to increase their prices on the Steelfish then what pray tell is it? I don't put them above such behavior but suspicions and innuendo is NOT evidence. You offer a price increase by one dealer on one watch as your proof.

By the way, please don't imply that those who disagree only do so because they are ignorant. I get tired of being told to read the "cartel" threads. I did so some time ago as many here have, and that I can see you have not yet offered compelling evidence (or indeed ANY evidence) that this single price increase is part of some price fixing scheme.

[mumum]

Hi noob.

Herey herey

I em not talking about all the reps, i em talking about hustling you now like drug dealers giving you cocaine they say is 80% pure and it turns out you paid a premium for 40% crap mixed whit all kind of garbage.

Thats have they are doing on the Asian 7750 they sell you crap for 450-1100$ for the price of Swiss 7750 Quality..

You see this forum is here to help members not dealers if some like Dave enjoy spending and can afford this high priced reps then fine for him but not all can or are willing to spend 700 on something that shoud cost maximum of 400..

My collection is all Swiss movements that can be serviced and use spare parts hens they have some value something a 7750 Asian does not..

Cheers

Good one Dani.

In total agreement.

JohnG,

I myself have not been posting for awhile, but do read often these days (too much politics for my liking).

Please read threads on the "other" forum where the so called price fixing and bullting of other sellers were brought to light. The outcome was that they were removed from the sellers list. Again, its who you believe. Being a member on these forums for awhile, I believe I know who gets my trust. Imo, I have to agree with Dani. Take that for what it is worth. Again, its we members who are the only ones who look out for each other and not the sellers who look out for us. The whole point of these forums, and why I personally joined.

Edited August 19, 2008 by mumum

[andreww]

By the way, please don't imply that those who disagree only do so because they are ignorant. I get tired of being told to read the "cartel" threads. I did so some time ago as many here have, and that I can see you have not yet offered compelling evidence (or indeed ANY evidence) that this single price increase is part of some price fixing scheme.

I think the evidence was pretty clear in the recent "RWI bans J&A" issue. Also, one only has to follow the trends of the newly released watches to get an idea of what is going on. Some watches become available to Cartel dealers only, and are for the most part quite expensive. Other watches like the Oris Carlos Costas for example, that are available to all dealers, are reasonably priced in comparison. Continue to be blind if you like, J&A will gladly be there to take your money.

[mumum]

I edited my post above ...

[jdavis]

What your not getting is, we create their business - this isn't a free market were in - its fish in a barrel - and to jack up prices on your fish, that you didn't create or maintain - but someone maintaines them for you - its pretty F-d up to jack up prices, and try to fix high prices.

For all you free market-eers read the old cartel threads from last year.

josh and andrew and sometimes king and angus are trying to create a monopoly situation and cartel style price fixing.

and keeping the prices hIGH - the market doesn't have much to do with it, especially if the factory is involved - and clearly some of them are.

dollar shamller - reps GO DOWN in price when they have been around for awhile not UP!!!

Fish in a barrel? You may feel that way because it is necessary for you to prove your point or agenda. All the rest of us can swim up stream to a different barrel

Instead of all this bickering about the alleged price fixing why not do a genuine service to the community. If you see what you feel is an excessive price increase, report to the forum a dealer or dealers who are selling that watch for a lesser price. That is using the "free market" to our advantage. Members could then choose between the dealers and therefore impact the pricing structure.

[andreww]

Silix has it for $275