Stephane Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Rolex Submariner 16800: 6557XXX serie from 1980. Pictorial/review of a transitional Sub Dear All, The most boaring member of RWG history is here again with a Submariner. Sorry for that Preambule I would like to say that I am in no way a rich man but at my age it would be a pitty if couldn't finaly turn some of my dreams into reality. I discovered RWG back in January 2007 and collected some wonderful Frankens. I intend to continue to build more Rolex with the help of my friends here of course. I am on PAUSE mode though. I decided to put together a "mini" Genuine Rolex collection, essentially Submariners/SeaDwellers. And, in the end, I think it's not a bad idea to share them with the community. Allthough it might be seen as a show off, it is not my intention. I wish every single genuine watch owner would post theirs here, it's a great source of information. The 16800: transition? What does that mean? The first date Submariner was the famous 1680 with the 1575 movement and a cyclop of course. In 1977, the 16800 is released and features the first sapphire crystal on a Sub and a higher beat movement with quick set date. The 3035. This movement is not the current Rolex experts favourite. It was not dedicated to the Sub only but also to DateJust in example. The production of the movement ended in 1988 and was replaced by the star: the 3135. Images of the movement are stolen from the Rolxxx Ref xxx Page xxx It's funny how we learn something new everyday on RWG! I tried to set the date and I couldn't! I was trying to do it like on a 3135 movement, turning th crown clock wise. My good friend MM explained how to quick set the date on the 3035: it's Counter Clock Wise! The dept rating on the dial changed from 660 (1680) to 1000 feet (16800). The dial was lumed with Tritium (it's the matte dial here). Later, the dial carried hour markers surrounded with white gold, and then the 16610 was released after one year of 168000 in 1988/89. The difference on the 168000 (triple zero thus) is the steel quality which went from 316 to 904. All of them were using Tritium untill 1999/2000, including the 16610, when Rolex started to use Luminova, followed by Super Luminova. My 16800 The history of this 6557XXXX watch is a little chaotic. I have no papers. My usual seller (www.subgmt.com) told me it's a great example, one of the best he had seen. My friend MM confirmed this. As you can see, it was in Germany, Hong Kong and somewhere in Japan. Now it's in Belgium The dial We already saw matte dials. One more time. The Crystal One of the first Rolex sapphire crystal! The Date Wheel The great feature is the silver datewheel I can't really reproduce it in the photos but in the flesh it's really a totaly different feeling from the white ones. The hands The hands lume does not match the dial hour markers. The dial and the hands might not be from the same factory on this watch or the hands were changed by a RSC, who knows. After 28 years, we know that some lume material turn yellowish, some brownish and some stay white. Go figure! Neither the dial hour markers or hands are glowing..., it's totaly gone! This prooves that the hands are Tritium too anyway which is correct. The insert and the pearl The only very bad idea the owners got was to change the insert The pearl is to white for my taste allthough it is Tritium and almost doesn't glow at all anymore. But that ain't a big issue though as we have plenty of inserts around Between the lugs It's cool to see 16800 engraved between the lugs. The crown and the position The crown position on the 3035 in the 16800. ...the crown position on the 3135 in the 16610 (from 99) I'm not sure one can see a huge difference from the pics, but there is a difference as the movements aren't the same height. The crown guards No comment. They are shaved to perfection The bracelet and end links Like many other Rolex parts, there are watches that carry "newer" parts after going to the service. The 16800 came with 593, 580 and 501b endlinks. The most correct ones are the 593 as confirmed by Alligoat. Mine comes with 501b. (Stock photo, I was too lazy to make more 93150 photos) The bracelet was of course a 93150. Logicaly the bracelet should be a 1980 one but it is more likely a 1995 or 1998 one (depending on the source for clasp codes of course). This one has been changed thus and is stamped W on the clasp (Stock photo, I was too lazy to make more 93150 photos) The 1980 one should not have the two lines on the flip top buckle (where is he by the way? Sorry private joke for members from 2007) (Stock photo, I was too lazy to make more 93150 photos) Conclusion It's my first non modern Sub, with a matte dial and it took 24 hours to get used to it. But I have to say that I am more than happy with this one too. About the time keeping: another mystery to me. If this watch has not been serviced then it's a miracle. It keeps perfect time for 48 hours then goes 2 seconds to fast on day 3 Thanks for looking and reading. Cheers Stephane Some more eye candy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 she's a real looker stephane congrats on a beautiful watch i think you'll be glad you picked a transitional version -- the 1570 is a great movements, but really slow to set if you have to cycle through more than a couple days great pictures as always too -- thanks for sharing deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarini Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 As i said to u before via PM... hands down my favorite piece of ure gen. collection Needless to say great pictures and writeup... there i said it No go and enjoy it... u deserve it my dear friend! Kind Regards LAZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w.genzo Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Congrats, a true gem, and I love open 6 and 9! Funny, the more I stay here, the more I appreciate gens, and I guess it's the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Your gen Rolex collection is becoming really, really impressive. Needless to say this is a beautiful watch, and if you only own one gen Sub, this is a perfect "compromise". Something from the old, something from the new. Personally, I prefer the sapphire on the Sub... the bulged acrylic on 1680 never attracted me that much. Great watch! PS: I know you... you're not in the "pause mode"... you're "looking". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 you know this is my favorite Sub ever. I love the mix between vintage and modern on a 16800. The matte Dial with the markers with no gold surrounding I like much more than the shiny modern one. Congrats to this fantastic beauty and to this really great review of your new Sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 A beautiful write up, review and pictures, thank you! Stunning watch too! I wonder how many reps of these would sell if it were acurately reproduced? Are you listening Eurotimez!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 absolutely awesome! I have always found this to be an interesting watch and is a MUST in any Rolex collection. The transition from the old to the newer style is very cool. Love the silver datewheel too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux1 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Stephane, your pictures are making me love Rolex even more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_urabus Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I am with tribal, that is my fav sub. modern and vintage. just bad a$$. some day... told the wife I wanted one for my 40th. just a few years to go... thanks for yet another amazing review... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Great write up Stephane and a beautiful watch- certainly the matte dial 16800 is my favorite watch at this point in time gen on the left and franken on the right. The franken gets the most wrist time because I worry less about tearing it up. Stunning watch too! I wonder how many reps of these would sell if it were acurately reproduced? Are you listening Eurotimez!? Actually Eourtimez is working on this already. But it may take a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Thanks so much for your nice comments guys. It's trully a "different" sub, as you say, a mix of old and new. Staying here push us to go for genuines, it's a natural move in my opinion. But you are right By-Tor: I'm looking! Currently I have a Snowflake and a 1655 project going on... So my Rolex collection will always be a mix of frankens and gens. @Alligoat: your franken is stunning. The gen too of course Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 great review ! it had an pitstop at "Uhrenfreund" its a very good dealer - he usually sells the watches serviced - so yours prob had one. you did everything right - please don't let them change any tritium parts to SL ! and keep the silver datewheel ! i wanted to get one 16800 too - but to find a perfect keeper is very hard and expensive right now. so i got the neo-vintage 16610 with Tritium but nearly NOS. cheers, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrandazzo Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 The open font silver datewheel is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 It is simply amazing how identical the reps of these are nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 i wanted to get one 16800 too - but to find a perfect keeper is very hard and expensive right now. so i got the neo-vintage 16610 with Tritium but nearly NOS. cheers, Frank Congrats on the Neo Frank. My 16800 was a good deal though. Without papers and with a chaotic history people do not want to pay a "market price" Which made this one "affordable". The open font silver datewheel is Thanks Mrandazzo. It's the first time I see a silver datewheel on my wrist and I wish I had some of them to install in my frankens. But who knows...projects are never really finished are they It is simply amazing how identical the reps of these are nowadays. Hmmm, interresting comment. From what I read and experienced myself it's not an easy one to rep though. If you have some secrets or some tricks, we'd love to hear them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hmmm, interresting comment. From what I read and experienced myself it's not an easy one to rep though. If you have some secrets or some tricks, we'd love to hear them Shoot Stephane, you know the formula, a noob case from Omega with the drilled lugholes, a silver datewheel from like an MBW 1680 red sub- open 6's and 9's, round top 3's, my datewheel is white in my franken and in my gen, but the open 6's and 9's are the key gen crown and tube WM pearl in a noob insert, or file down a gen insert, or a WM pearl in a jewelryoutlet insert- file it down also 593 end pieces and a 93150- maybe MBW again Hardest part is the 16800 matte dial- they've been going for $600 on the bay lately. Or you could pick up an older tritium dial w/ white gold surrounds- but not as nice as the matte dial 16800's A relume of dial and hands by Ziggy would be a nice final touch. The killer at this point is the matte dial- they've become so expensive- I got mine two years ago for $100 and paid Ziggy $50 to relume it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Beautiful review of a fine specimen Stephane! ...of course a gen transitional sub belongs with a gen transitional sea dweller! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 @Alligoat: yes, that is how I build my franken too. But a matte dial is indeed very rare these days as is a silver date wheel. So, in my opinion build a finished franken would cost a lot of money in the end, probably 2K and require a lot of patience to find the parts @Jojo: oh, I'm jealous of your SD...sure a great piece to own too. Congrats my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 You won't get called out on the reps. Most of the changes that people make are because it bugs them not anyone else. The ones I've seen look pretty damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yachtmaster Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 cyclopse is not 2.5x on these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Stephane, I finally followed your footsteps and purchased a gen 16800 for myself. Here's some quick pics I took for all to enjoy. As anyone could see, genuine tritium ages differently on each different watch. I prefer coffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Jojo, that is a great find. It's one more example of the variations of the aging for tritium dials. I know you like it more coffe and me more milk. So we have a couple here Gonna be fun to shoot some photos when we meet next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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