Toad's Guide - 1655 Explorer II Steve McQueen Orange Hand Reference Guide

[Toadtorrent]

This is going to be a quick Toad Guide...mainly a reference to some gen 1655 pics with details to provide people a starting point of how their rep projects should look...no big details...just pics and specs.

Everyone knows in real life Paul Newman wore his 6263 Daytona...but there exists a bit of confusion over the Steve McQueen Rolex given that Tag Heur makes a Monaco based on his character in the 1971 movie Le Mans. What Steve McQueen wore in real life for the most part was a no-date Submariner...but his more famous selection was the Rolex 1655 Explorer II with matte black dial and orange hand, affectionately known as the "Steve McQueen Rolex".

There are some excellent 1655 threads on RWG including:

Stephane's Info Gathering Thread

Lanikai's Upcoming 1655 Project

Polexpete's Thread with some great gen pics

Toomuchgear's Franken info is in this thread

All the pics and details below are taken from the Antiquorum Rolex Revolution Catalogue...with additional observations of mine added in for good measure.

CASE SPECS

There seems to be some confusion over the proper size for this case. As usual, recorded dimensions vary depending on who is doing the measuring and where they are measuring. But...to the collector, the dimensions as Antiquorum measures them (pretty solid source...given they regularly sell $100,000+ watches...so they better get a simple thing like how to measure things down pat):

WIDTH: 39mm

THICKENESS: 14mm

If anyone is wondering, the THICKNESS of the case is where most of the rep cases fail. The lower end ones are generally built on a Submariner case with 1655 markings which unfortunately measure 1-2 mm's too thin. Whether or not they are same width I'm not sure about...but Antiquorum measures all modern Subs as 40mm x 13mm, with vintages subs in the 70's at 40mm x 14mm.

GENERAL OBSERVATIONS

One thing I notice when looking at these vintage pieces is that there are so many variances in details like crown guards and dial markings, that whatever you choose will likely only be able to be called out by a VERY FEW number of people. Many people will think they know the differences...but generally only compared with 1-2 variants of the 1655, and NOT the complete history of what is available in the ultra-rare vintage Rolex market.

THE GOODS

Here we go...ENJOY!!

Antiquorum Lot 102 - Straight Hand, Mark I

DATE:1970

NOTES:

• Straight centre seconds hand
  
• "T Swiss T"
  
• Aged darker yellow tritium baton markers
  
• White baton hands with aged darker yellow tritium
  
• "thinner" crown guards
  
• Smaller, "heavier" bezel font
  
• Bezel printing closer to inner bezel edge
  
• Long baton markers on bezel
  
  
  
  

  Antiquorum Lot 103 - Straight Hand Steve McQueen

  

  
  DATE:1971
  NOTES:

  • Straight centre seconds hand
    
  • "T Swiss T"
    
  • Aged lighter yellow tritium baton markers
    
  • White baton hands with aged lighter yellow tritium
    
  • "thicker" crown guards
    
  • "lighter" bezel font
    
  • Bezel printing is centred on bezel
    
  • Short baton markers on bezel
    
    
    
    

    Antiquorum Lot 104 - Ref. 1655 "Steve McQueen"

    

    
    DATE:1979
    NOTES:

    • Centre seconds hand with luminous dot
      
    • "T Swiss < 25 T"
      
    • Lightly aged light cream tritium baton markers
      
    • White baton hands tritium
      
    • "thicker" crown guards
      
    • "lighter" but wider bezel font
      
      
      
      

      Antiquorum Lot 105 - Ref. 1655 "Steve McQueen"

      

      
      DATE:1979
      NOTES:

      • Centre seconds hand with luminous dot
        
      • "T Swiss < 25 T"
        
      • Lightly aged light cream tritium baton markers
        
      • White baton hands tritium
        
      • "thinner" almost pointy crown guards
        
      • "heavier" but narrow font than Lot 104 above
        
        
        
        

        Antiquorum Lot 106 - Tangerine Steve McQueen

        

        
        DATE:1984
        NOTES:

        • Centre seconds hand with missing dot
          
        • "T Swiss < 25 T"
          
        • Very orange aged tritium baton markers
          
        • White baton hands with very orange aged tritium
          
        • "medium" thickness crown guards
          
        • "taller " bezel font
          

        BEZEL FONT VARIANCE

        

        [*]Lot 102 and 106 sit close to the edge towards the dial, 103 sits "high" on the bezel

        [*]Lot 104 and 105 printing is centered within bezel

        [*]Lot 104 has a narrower font

        [*]Lot 103 and 106 use a wider font

        [*]Lot 102 uses a heavier font

        BEZEL BATON MARKERS AND CROWN GUARDS

        

        [*]Lot 102 has long thick baton markers

        [*]Lot 103 has short "thinner" baton markers

        [*]Lot 105 has long "thinner" baton markers

        [*]Lot 102 thinner crown guards

        [*]Lot 103 has thicker crown guards

        [*]Lot 105 has thinnest, pointier profiled crown guards (NOTE: I don't have pics of the crown guards from the crown side...so I can't show if they are really pointy)

        [*]Lot 102 and 105 have serifed feet on the bottom of the flat-topped 4, while Lot 103 has no serifs

        SECOND HANDS

        

        [*]Lot 102 is the straight hand

        [*]Lot 105 has the lume dot

        [*]Lot 106 has a missing lume dot

        [*]Lot 106 lume dot holder sits higher than Lot 105 and well above the coronet

        T SWISS T

        

        NOTE: Lot 102 bezel markings are closer to the dial and a heavier font. Lot 105 also has "pointier" serifs

        CONCLUSION

        I hope you guys find this useful...I plan to embark on a project one of these days. What I hope to illustrate are the slight variances in popular things like the font, baton markers, hand length, etc that make vintage Rollies so much fun and confusing.

        I also hope to highlight how difficult it really is to determine with REAL confidence the "gen" features to shoot for without a complete comparitive timeline of the variance in the watches, and a solid memory to remember which features apply to what!

        So, if anybody says "that's a fake...look at how heavy that font is on the bezel...it's all wrong"...look at them like you would a small, bad child and say "PLEASE...that only applies to pre-1971 and after 1975...everybody knows that...rookie...now go back to your hole and read up on your facts if you want to play with the big kids."

[Slartibartfast]

Fabulous review Toadt. Brilliant reference piece, that I will be bookmarking.

Great stuff!!!!

[dluddy]

Great contribution, again, Toad.

Wish I had this when I was building mine - I know it will be useful for anyone taking this project on

[youpmelone]

wow!!

gr8 overview, one of the best posts of the year!

I will never say something again like: the bezel looks off, or the endlinks do not seem to fit nicely, or the fonts on the dial look off...

jeez..

[polexpete]

Awesome post Toad, thanks for putting it together. On the very last leg of my project waiting for the dial to come back from CWP. Your info is gonna be very useful....

Cheers

P.

[RWG Technical]

Another great review, I will read in more detail tomorrow.

Thanks so much.

RG

[lanikai]

thank you Toad for the great reference's..

If I did my homework correctly over the last year what I dug up was interesting .. the staight second hand had the orange

GMT and the bezel font was jus a little thinner (or so it seemed), but it came down to weather it was a pic or drawing.. or it depended a lot on if the image was magnified

and since I am trying to get the straight seconds custom made (no telling how long that will take) .. I decided to go with the correct details of the later model with the reddish-orange hand .. and the ball second hand .. I'm not using the rep ball sweep though I had one made that is more to the correct size ball.

there was in fact a very small variance in the measurements.. 39-40 mm again, some believe it is from case @9 to crown.. while others say case to CG .. so assuming this is where the variance comes in ... 40mm seemed safe .. as it cannot get any bigger from case to crown..

what was interesting is that some genuine owners claim that their GMT hand was orange and faded to yellow with time.. this again made sense .. as I got "lost" in the variances in year and GMT colours.. so it was documented more than once that some of the yellow hands used to be orange as you can see the colour in your pics .. don't look pure yellow or pure orange.. the reddish-orange came in later models I believe..

so out of 4 bezels I sourced .. which all seemed correct depending on the hand sets and year .. the thicker font matches the reddish orange the best since this also is the correct second hand.. in accordance to the bezel and GMT colour..

Also, it seemed that the maker of the rep started out with the correct size

GMT .. but for whatever reason used a bigger case and dial.. ergo the short GMT hand.. (jus my opinion btw)

also a few of the genuine pics I found.. the smaller markers did not touch the case (rehaut).. I think this was in the earlier models..

some of the pics that DBR sent me last year .. looks exactly like the lume that Ziggy does.. actually Ziggy's is nicer as far as precision and detail .. but those dials weren't re-dialed so I am excited about that !!!!

The genuine crystal (T-116) should fit the rep dial perfectly.. as the window is farther to the case .. more than the 1680 .. so the rep crystals .. not only the wrong magnification but to far off the edge..

there are some DW's that are silver and others that are white.. so both are correct..

the space between the CG's and the crown is very wide on the genuine.. so the case I have should work (hopefully) perfect.. the CG's jus need to come down to where the serations start on the crown..

A lot of the variances were not documented but after finding consistencies in genuine owners forums, jus different semantics .. it became clear that the reddish-orange GMT.. was the one to go with, (for me).. and until the reddish-orange ..gmt.. alot of the GMT hands that were confusing(orange or yellow) were jus faded colours.. that was verified in several forums.. that's why I got really confused with the yellow and orange GMT all around details..

so in time the reddish orange hand should fade to dark orange right ???

Edit to add: also the (lot 105) bezel font is the original.. the (lot 102) is also correct but is a newer bezel and also used to 'replace' damaged or older worn bezels when the 1655 is serviced by Rolex.. and also the consistency is with the thicker font in the bezel.. and since the reps were made with pics.. that would explain the ultra thin font on some of the rep models.. as lighting made a difference in what the font size "appeared" to be..

thanks again Toad !!

R

[cornerstone]

Another cracking guide! Thank you!

[Toadtorrent]

...some of the pics that DBR sent me last year .. looks exactly like the lume that The Zigmeister does.. actually The Zigmeister's is nicer as far as precision and detail .. but those dials weren't re-dialed so I am excited about that !!!!

...Edit to add: also the 105 bezel font is the original.. the 102 is also correct but is a newer bezel and used to 'replace' damaged or older worn bezels when the 1655 is serviced by Rolex..

No doubt on the The Zigmeister lume...and to the bezel font...man...go straight to the head of the class. I'll say it again...the knowledge you need to get into vintages is STAGGERING!!

Some say not for the faint of heart...others say not for the faint of wallet...I say not for the faint of brain either!

BTW...I updated it to add some more comparitive pics of crown guards and more font variances as well as baton marker variances on the bezel.

Good notes to add!!

[lanikai]

No doubt on the Ziggy lume...and to the bezel font...man...go straight to the head of the class. I'll say it again...the knowledge you need to get into vintages is STAGGERING!!

Some say not for the faint of heart...others say not for the faint of wallet...I say not for the faint of brain either!

BTW...I updated it to add some more comparitive pics of crown guards and more font variances as well as baton marker variances on the bezel.

Good notes to add!!

nothing to do with IQ ... it only took a year to untie what seemed like a very contardicting puzzle to the 1655 .. at times I had to lay it down and empty the brain again.. but things started to come together with all the notes and "timeline".. but what took forever to surface was the faded GMT .. that was what made everything make sense .. together with the newer bezel font and "replacement" for older models.. if the older model still has the original bezel.. well you can figure out it's worth..because many have been replaced at the rolex service center.. at least now I can shelve all the notes and rough draft of the time line I was going to print..

yes .. the "tangerine" may be another "fade" to the original colour and the missing ball sweep lume may be jus that.. "missing" as that one looks like it was really "used" as a working timepiece for what it was originally intended..

edit add: .. take a look at the genuine pics of dirrerent bezel fonts... it all comes down to "magnification" of the pics.. the larger magnification of course looks like the font is larger.. so 102 and 105 are the ones to look at the others are jus the same fonts with more or less magnification in the fonts..

Good edited add ons btw..

[Toadtorrent]

nothing to do with IQ ... it only took a year to untie what seemed like a very contardicting puzzle to the 1655 .. at times I had to lay it down and empty the brain again..

edit add: .. take a look at the genuine pics of dirrerent bezel fonts... it all comes down to "magnification" of the pics.. the larger magnification of course looks like the font is larger.. so 102 and 105 are the ones to look at the others are jus the same fonts with more or less magnification in the fonts..

It's true that much knowledge is gained by much effort rather than inherent IQ. I have to believe that or wouldn't be able to do anything.

As to the fonts being the same...I'm not so sure about that. If you look at the unzoomed full head photos, you can see that they aren't.

105 and 106 look similar, but look at the 12 and you'll see the serif tail on the "1" is longer on the 106. The "4" looks the same too until you look at the bottom and the left point and you'll see slight flaring or shape that makes them a bit different.

104 and 105 I thought were the same, but look at the "0" in 10 and you'll see that 104 is actually a bit wider. The 14 on the two pieces looks close, but the bottom line on the "4" on the 104 sits much higher than the 105.

There are other differences as well when you start comparing the numbers 1-by-1 around the bezel.

How confusing is that!!

That timeline of yours will be gold when you get it finalized!!

[lanikai]

To keep it simple the only bezels I am concerned with for replication would be the lot 102 and 105..the others may have differences as these may be replacement bezels when the timepieces were serviced by Rolex.. as mentioned the 102 would be original bezel used in the early 70's when the stick sweep was used.. and the appearance of the 105 would mean it was serviced and that particular bezel was put on as a replacement for the worn or damaged 102 bezel.. ergo the confusing differences...

[dieselpower]

Great thread Toad. Thanks for all the effort and time you must have taken to do such an informative and worthwhile post.

[StormTooper4]

Thanks so much for putting this together, the bezel font comparison is really useful.

The 1655 was my very first rep and it has a special place in my collection.

Great job

ST4

[Tribal]

Fantastic Guide Wow

Thanks for sharing

[siesta181]

Thanks Toad for compiling this.

So this is gonna be my first Rollie projet and I intend to use Andy's 2893 as a base. So apart from luming the makers... is there anything I should keep a lookout for? How bout the datewheel? where can I source the open "6" and open "9" date wheel?

[siesta181]

Had to bump this thread all the way to the top of the Rolex forum coz I need help with my case reshaping project.

Does anyone have good reference pictures of the CGs' profile when viewed from the lugs pint of view?

[ebzen02]

Awesome.. As I am about to refresh my 1655 with some goodies..