Advice from a psychologist, please

[TeeJay]

No, I haven't finally flipped my lid, folks, I'm just hoping a psychologist might be able to give me some help with the name of a particular phobia/compulsion.

Let me set the scene:

For as long as I can remember, I have felt compelled to wear identification of some kind (ID bracelets, dog-tags etc) as I have always had a dread of being unidentified, or, more precisely, being unidentifiable post-mortem. It's not a case of being worried about being 'forgotten by history', or not 'leaving my mark on the world', that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but the idea of winding up a 'John Doe' really bothers me. (Not enough that I experience any anxiety or panic, but enough that I feel compelled to wear identification) I haven't worn an ID bracelet since I was a child, but, I do wear dog-tags with my details on (as would be the case with military-issued dog-tags) This isn't a case of going for the 'military-chic' look, or wanting to look like some kind of tough guy, it is literally just a case of wanting to be identifiable, and they are the easiest means to that end.

My question, is is there a name for this phobia/compulsion?

Thanks in advance

[Cats]

Teejay,

first of all it takes a lot of courage to tell this to us. And it shows how comfortable you feel amounst this community.

I'm no psychologist but i'm sure that we have several amoungst us.

Almost exactly 1 year ago i posted a off topic and got soem good advise from several "specialists"

Good luck with your search for the name of your habit

Carpe Diem

Cats

[TeeJay]

Teejay,

first of all it takes a lot of courage to tell this to us. And it shows how comfortable you feel amounst this community.

I'm no psychologist but i'm sure that we have several amoungst us.

Almost exactly 1 year ago i posted a off topic and got soem good advise from several "specialists"

Good luck with your search for the name of your habit

Carpe Diem

Cats

Thanks To be honest, I don't see it as courage, as I don't see it as something to be afraid or ashamed of, it's just something I'm curious if it has a name Now, to admit that I was seriously OCD about my cutlery drawer, or go back three times to check a door is locked, or have an unhealthy attraction to garden produce, those things take courage to own up to I'm just trying to see if there's a name for this compulsion But yes, this is an awesome community, with more than it's fair share of medical professionals

PS No, I'm not actually OCD about my cutlery drawer, attracted to garden produce or keep checking a locked door, those were just examples off the top of my head for things which someone really could feel embarrassed about revealing

[fakemaster]

OCD comes in all forms. The basic compenent of it is always a 'fear' of something. Now fear of something does not always mean you have OCD. An example would be a fear fo Clowns. But a fear of Clowns does not compel people to do certain things. They just get anxious around them.

[TeeJay]

OCD comes in all forms. The basic compenent of it is always a 'fear' of something. Now fear of something does not always mean you have OCD. An example would be a fear fo Clowns. But a fear of Clowns does not compel people to do certain things. They just get anxious around them.

That's very true. I guess to that extent, it is a compulsion, but, it's not one which I must do or I start getting jittery (such as folks who have to lock and re-lock doors, or run up and down a flight of stairs three times) so I guess if it is in the OCD spectrum, it's pretty mild

[Nightstroker]

For as long as I can remember, I have felt compelled to wear identification of some kind (ID bracelets, dog-tags etc) as I have always had a dread of being unidentified, or, more precisely, being unidentifiable post-mortem.

I'll take a stab at this. I studied Psychotherapy for a little while.

Sounds like a mild case of Thenatophobia (Fear of dying). Although you probably dont fear death or the process of dying, you do fear what could happen after you die. I imagine that you are not suffering from this in any way; however, if you are sweating, having anxiety attacks, or panicing/stressing out about it then you have a problem. As you get older, the fear could become more intense, especially if you are alone during your senior years.

If you are unsure about your feelings and what you are going through, you should have a chat with a psychologist to determine just how serious the fear is. Dont worry, therapy (without meds) is available for this kind of thing. If your psychologist thinks you needs meds (Which im sure you dont) she will refer you to a psychiatrist.

[TeeJay]

I'll take a stab at this. I studied Psychotherapy for a little while.

Sounds like a mild case of Thenatophobia (Fear of dying). Although you probably dont fear death or the process of dying, you do fear what could happen after you die. I imagine that you are not suffering from this in any way; however, if you are sweating, having anxiety attacks, or panicing/stressing out about it then you have a problem. As you get older, the fear could become more intense, especially if you are alone during your senior years.

If you are unsure about your feelings and what you are going through, you should have a chat with a psychologist to determine just how serious the fear is. Dont worry, therapy (without meds) is available for this kind of thing. If your psychologist thinks you needs meds (Which im sure you dont) she will refer you to a psychiatrist.

Thanks for the contribution, but I really don't have any fear of dying or what could happen afterwards (either to my body, or my soul), it is the idea of being unidentifiable after death which bugs me... It's not so much a case of being unsure of my feelings, I just wanted to know if there was actually a name for it, like postmortemincognitophobia, or some such

Thanks again for the contribution though, it's much appreciated

[PhilipM]

There isn't exactly official words, medical language is just using Greek or was it Latin words to describe a condition, thats why you often see some real odd ones listed in those fact emails that get sent around.

Hypophobia- fear of being under something

Hyperphobia - fear of being above something.

i doubt there is anyone with thise actual ones, as i just made it up as an example, but as long as you follow conventions, you're free to make your own word up.

http://phobialist.com/phobia_names.html

similar info is here, so you need to find a greek word that relates to being unknown, and you're done.

you can see in the phobia list, http://phobialist.com/index.html quite a few odd ones where someone has coined the word before a cvase has actually happened

[Nightstroker]

Im actually having a little difficulty wrapping my mind around this one. Usually, I can dig to the bottom of problems like this and uncover where the issue stems from. So I am trying to imagine what it is like to be you, or more specifically, how you might feel if you were to remove your dog tags, wallet, and other forms of identification and drive your car in an unfamiliar city that is far from your home.

I tend to think that the simplest solution is correct. So I am calling it Thanatophobia....an aspect of Thanatophobia, or an association with the fears of death, dying....fears of situations involving death. You see, the whole thing revolves around death....

It is the idea of being unidentifiable after death which bugs me

Lets look at this from another angle....

Your fear is irrational.

What would it take for your body to become unidentifiable after death?

You would have to die with no ID on you and in a place where nobody knew you were. Then, other forms of ID like finger prints and dental records would have to produce nothing. Also, all attempts to reveal your identity would have to fail.

Have you ever watched Forensic Files? They dig up bones from 20 years ago and figure out who the person was.

Lets suppose that you crashed your car into a gas tanker and the explosion charred your body beyone recognition. First, you would have to crash your car into something that could actually produce that kind of result. Second, your body would have to be unable to produce fingerprints or dental impressions. Third, the fire would have to completely destroy the VIN number(s) or any identifiable clues inside or associated with the vehicle that can be linked to you. If you should happen to be driving a car that doesnt belong to you, then the situation is even more unlikely, unless you are driving other peoples cars all the time.

So what are the odds of something like that happening? You, driving a car that doesnt belong to you, gets into an accident that results in complete destruction of the vehicle and your body beyond any means of recognition? Maybe one in a million/billion?

Lets imagine another situation that doesnt involve cars. What would that situation be? What would it take to completely destroy a persons body beyond recognition?

A house fire. If that were the case, then the house and your entire body would have to be incenerated before the fire department puts out the fire. Not likely for that to happen, especially with fire detectors. You might be imagining a situation where first, you die in your sleep, then the house catches on fire. That is even more unlikely.

These are the kinds of things that psychologists will attempt to make you understand, except that instead of them explaning it to you, they make you explain it to them by asking you the right questions, and then you will discover that you knew all along how irrational your fears were.

I searched a long list of phobias and besides Thanatophobia I came up empty handed. Rather than calling it or creating a new phobia, I think its easier to just associate it with Thanatophobia.

[nikki6]

Hey TJ, I'm not trying to be funny here so lets get that straight right off! I know a lot of guys who wear tags or bracelets, it's compulsory now in certain types of motorcycle racing. Like you,, it's not the fear of dying, or we wouldn't race the bloody missiles, it's the ID if it goes wrong, a good few road riders wear them too. There is a new type of tags out, I think they are called Tech Tags but don't quote me on it, basically you can load all your details (next of kin, blood type, name and addy etc) and they are usb tags. The centre of one of the tags can be spun around exposing the usb connector and you plug it into your computer and put on what you think is best for you, then if the worst happens, God forbid, then the paramedics can just push the usb key into their tough books and all your info is there and a huge amount of time is saved.

If you want the details for them I'm more than happy to hunt them out for you!

[FxrAndy]

TJ, in my job we have the option of giving a DNA sample in case of, that way you will alway identified, so get arrested or see your GP, problem solved.

[chris5264]

(Not enough that I experience any anxiety or panic, but enough that I feel compelled to wear identification)

Well,,,just ran this by my wife (a clinical psychologist) and she gave me the typical "things are never simple and you need to see a therapist to get any meaningful answers", but she did also say something like "did you ever get lost as a child?",,,which could be interesting. My take is that all fear,,,and I seriously mean all fear and anxiety stems from the egos fear that it will one day disappear into the nothingness it once was (sorry if that sounds dramatic). All peace comes from losing one's identification with the ego but this is difficult because in the west we are all taught that our ego (our personal individual self, history, soical status, etc) is all there is but that is just MHO.....

and btw,,,,from your statement above,,,doesn't seem too serious since most psychologists would draw a line between issues that doen't interfear with your life and those that do.....at least your doesn't.

[milsub5517]

just think of worst case scenario: you end up dead and no one can identify you. Will you really care at that point? Nothing really can be done since you are dead. May be try to live through that scenario in your head and try to make peace with it..

[fakemaster]

Wel not to bring a metaphysical aspect into it but when you're dead, you're dead and it's over. So it's good not to preoccupy yourself with it. But with that said it doesn't really matter what hapens then. I know when I die no one will even miss me much less come looking for the body. No one I personally know. Certainly no one here gives a crap. I say take the dog tags off and don't worry about it. Life's too short.

[chiefwiggum]

TJ, in my job we have the option of giving a DNA sample in case of, that way you will alway identified, so get arrested or see your GP, problem solved.

Spot on Andy - Perhaps the latter would be an easier and less painful option.

Or there is always the old Army trick of tattooing your mark on a part of your body, doesn't have to be particularly conspicuous, but may give a greater sense of comfort knowing that unless you are entirely toasted, your mark will be permanent and therefore seen when you have left your mortal coil.

[FxrAndy]

I think TJ already has a few distinguishing marks or the tattoo type, the funny thing about the old army blood group and number tattoos is that no one ever pays any notice as most were done when the owner was drunk by a dyslexic drunk in aldershot so not exactly reliable info.

[narikaa]

Or see if a friendly vet will do an ID chip implant on you

;-)

.

[FxrAndy]

Good thinkig Reg

[TeeJay]

There isn't exactly official words, medical language is just using Greek or was it Latin words to describe a condition, thats why you often see some real odd ones listed in those fact emails that get sent around.

Hypophobia- fear of being under something

Hyperphobia - fear of being above something.

i doubt there is anyone with thise actual ones, as i just made it up as an example, but as long as you follow conventions, you're free to make your own word up.

http://phobialist.com/phobia_names.html

similar info is here, so you need to find a greek word that relates to being unknown, and you're done.

you can see in the phobia list, http://phobialist.com/index.html quite a few odd ones where someone has coined the word before a cvase has actually happened

That's an awesome list, thanks for the link

Im actually having a little difficulty wrapping my mind around this one. Usually, I can dig to the bottom of problems like this and uncover where the issue stems from. So I am trying to imagine what it is like to be you, or more specifically, how you might feel if you were to remove your dog tags, wallet, and other forms of identification and drive your car in an unfamiliar city that is far from your home.

I tend to think that the simplest solution is correct. So I am calling it Thanatophobia....an aspect of Thanatophobia, or an association with the fears of death, dying....fears of situations involving death. You see, the whole thing revolves around death....

Lets look at this from another angle....

Your fear is irrational.

What would it take for your body to become unidentifiable after death?

You would have to die with no ID on you and in a place where nobody knew you were. Then, other forms of ID like finger prints and dental records would have to produce nothing. Also, all attempts to reveal your identity would have to fail.

Have you ever watched Forensic Files? They dig up bones from 20 years ago and figure out who the person was.

Lets suppose that you crashed your car into a gas tanker and the explosion charred your body beyone recognition. First, you would have to crash your car into something that could actually produce that kind of result. Second, your body would have to be unable to produce fingerprints or dental impressions. Third, the fire would have to completely destroy the VIN number(s) or any identifiable clues inside or associated with the vehicle that can be linked to you. If you should happen to be driving a car that doesnt belong to you, then the situation is even more unlikely, unless you are driving other peoples cars all the time.

So what are the odds of something like that happening? You, driving a car that doesnt belong to you, gets into an accident that results in complete destruction of the vehicle and your body beyond any means of recognition? Maybe one in a million/billion?

Lets imagine another situation that doesnt involve cars. What would that situation be? What would it take to completely destroy a persons body beyond recognition?

A house fire. If that were the case, then the house and your entire body would have to be incenerated before the fire department puts out the fire. Not likely for that to happen, especially with fire detectors. You might be imagining a situation where first, you die in your sleep, then the house catches on fire. That is even more unlikely.

These are the kinds of things that psychologists will attempt to make you understand, except that instead of them explaning it to you, they make you explain it to them by asking you the right questions, and then you will discover that you knew all along how irrational your fears were.

I searched a long list of phobias and besides Thanatophobia I came up empty handed. Rather than calling it or creating a new phobia, I think its easier to just associate it with Thanatophobia.

I quite agree, it's certainly irrational, and indeed, the chances of such a traumatic death are, as you say, probably a billion to one. Thinking about it, if I was to wind up getting murdered and then butchered to avoid identification, I think whoever did it would be thorough enough to remove the tags while smashing my teeth out At least, I'd hope they'd do that, 'for the sake of the piggies digestion', to borrow a movie quote

The problem with irrational compulsions and fears, is that even understanding them intellectually does little to ease them

Hey TJ, I'm not trying to be funny here so lets get that straight right off! I know a lot of guys who wear tags or bracelets, it's compulsory now in certain types of motorcycle racing. Like you,, it's not the fear of dying, or we wouldn't race the bloody missiles, it's the ID if it goes wrong, a good few road riders wear them too. There is a new type of tags out, I think they are called Tech Tags but don't quote me on it, basically you can load all your details (next of kin, blood type, name and addy etc) and they are usb tags. The centre of one of the tags can be spun around exposing the usb connector and you plug it into your computer and put on what you think is best for you, then if the worst happens, God forbid, then the paramedics can just push the usb key into their tough books and all your info is there and a huge amount of time is saved.

If you want the details for them I'm more than happy to hunt them out for you!

Hi Nikki, thanks for the input, bro I know the tags you mean, I've seen them on eBay while on the hunt for (yes, you've guessed it) more dog tags I did seriously consider getting one, but the thing which put me off, was the thought that if it was to be needed somewhere where they didn't actually have computer access (rare in this day and age, I know) then the tag wouldn't be able to tell them anything, so I stuck with the more 'traditional' idea, but with a slightly modern twist. I don't know if you remember a TV show called Space: Above and Beyond, but I've ordered some laser-etched tags which will be somewhat in the style of the ones worn on the show. One side will feature a barcode of my National Insurance number and a small head shot, the other side will have the traditional name, number, blood type, religion, which would be on traditional tags. I've been told that the company is out of supply at the moment, but will be able to fill the order in the new year, so I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the come out, as movie memorabilia is another of my collection hobbies.

Something positive to come of this, is I saw several really nice Russian (and other country) dog tags on eBay, so I might start collecting tags as well (I already have quite a few) I recon something like a stamp-collecting folder (or something similar) would look pretty good filled with various tags

TJ, in my job we have the option of giving a DNA sample in case of, that way you will alway identified, so get arrested or see your GP, problem solved.

Well, I went to my doctor to ask if they could do a blood screening to confirm my blood group, but I was told that they only tend to do them for pregnant women That still leaves me with the other option though

Well,,,just ran this by my wife (a clinical psychologist) and she gave me the typical "things are never simple and you need to see a therapist to get any meaningful answers", but she did also say something like "did you ever get lost as a child?",,,which could be interesting. My take is that all fear,,,and I seriously mean all fear and anxiety stems from the egos fear that it will one day disappear into the nothingness it once was (sorry if that sounds dramatic). All peace comes from losing one's identification with the ego but this is difficult because in the west we are all taught that our ego (our personal individual self, history, soical status, etc) is all there is but that is just MHO.....

and btw,,,,from your statement above,,,doesn't seem too serious since most psychologists would draw a line between issues that doen't interfear with your life and those that do.....at least your doesn't.

Thanks for the contribution, and please thank your wife for me Indeed, I actually did get lost as a child, a few times in fact, and that is one of the few things, which can actually make me panic. I have no problem all the time I'm by myself, but if I'm with a group and get seperated in some way, it still really freaks me out. Of course, I've grown out of the crying and soiling myself (I only do that now if I have way too much to drink ) But indeed, this could be a root cause, which I hadn't considered until you mentioned it, so indeed, thanks for that

just think of worst case scenario: you end up dead and no one can identify you. Will you really care at that point? Nothing really can be done since you are dead. May be try to live through that scenario in your head and try to make peace with it..

Indeed, I wouldn't care about it at that point, but I care about it now, that's the problem

Wel not to bring a metaphysical aspect into it but when you're dead, you're dead and it's over. So it's good not to preoccupy yourself with it. But with that said it doesn't really matter what hapens then. I know when I die no one will even miss me much less come looking for the body. No one I personally know. Certainly no one here gives a crap. I say take the dog tags off and don't worry about it. Life's too short.

Thanks for the advice, bro Although I'd have to disagree, I think you'd be missed more than you think

Spot on Andy - Perhaps the latter would be an easier and less painful option.

Or there is always the old Army trick of tattooing your mark on a part of your body, doesn't have to be particularly conspicuous, but may give a greater sense of comfort knowing that unless you are entirely toasted, your mark will be permanent and therefore seen when you have left your mortal coil.

If I wasn't so specific about the tattoos I want, I probably would have that done

I think TJ already has a few distinguishing marks or the tattoo type, the funny thing about the old army blood group and number tattoos is that no one ever pays any notice as most were done when the owner was drunk by a dyslexic drunk in aldershot so not exactly reliable info.

Indeed I do I've see a few articles recently where police have released descriptions of John Doe's tattoos, in hopes people can identify them

Or see if a friendly vet will do an ID chip implant on you

;-)

.

Having seen Casino Royale, you don't know just how tempted I was to actually get that done My only concern, was, as mentioned about the electronic tags, without the technology to read it, it wouldn't be so useful. Also, I didn't think a vet would actually do that, and it was the fear (it's always The Fear ) of sounding like a crackpot (or crackhead ) which kept me from enquiring Maybe one day though

Thanks for all the responses, amigos, it is much appreciated, and has bought me some further understanding of the compulsion, which, at the end of the day, was what I was seeking As mentioned, it's not something which has a real impact on my life, so it's not what I'd consider serious, I just wanted to better understand it Thanks again

[jdkno]

The problem with an implanted chip is unless someone knows you have it, or has the proper equipment to read it, it is useless. ID tags such as bracelets, dogtags, USB tags ect.. are all great provided they stay where they are supposed to.

Best bet, get your ink done. Then even though the fear may still be there you will know that all that can be done, is done.

[TeeJay]

The problem with an implanted chip is unless someone knows you have it, or has the proper equipment to read it, it is useless. ID tags such as bracelets, dogtags, USB tags ect.. are all great provided they stay where they are supposed to.

Best bet, get your ink done. Then even though the fear may still be there you will know that all that can be done, is done.

Indeed, that was what ultimately persuaded me against pursuing it (as well as The Fear of sounding like a crackpot at the vet's ) That said, it might've been quite cool to get the 'bleep' when going through a metal detector, and getting them to scan my arm with a hand-held wand and getting the bleep Probably get a few confused looks too

[PhilipM]

Could get an Intel Inside tattoo over the chip?

[TeeJay]

Could get an Intel Inside tattoo over the chip?

I like the sound of that

[nikki6]

Lol@ intel inside tattoo!!

As a large collector of ink (as well as watches, sunglasses, jewellery, etc, etc I have WAY too many collections!! Think I may be forced to join the Dtags collectors too! I alread have 7 sets!!)

Sorry, back to the question at hand, ink is the way to go!! As you are getting the ink think about the reason you are getting it, maybe get it in a slightly more uncomfortable place (it is only uncomfortable, it's not the pain fest people have you believe!!) that way the reason stays with you longer. I have done this with a couple of my pieces and it works!!

[nikki6]

Oh and if you are worried about the quality of the work, I can name you at least one good artist pretty much anywhere in the world.

(Not an idle boast, I've been a pro body piercer for about 9 years and part of that whole community for longer. So I most probably can find you a guy pretty much anywhere who is top quality! Kinda like some of you guy's and the dealers you have grown to trust through experience or that of a trusted other!)