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Lemania 2310 / Venus 175 / Seagull ST-19


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I vote for Robbie to be RWG watch historian. It is an excellent source of info regarding the true value of watches (being them reps or gens). If we are really into this hobbie is this little details and scrutiny of what lies beneath that makes the pulse rush (both in the heart and in the watch). I really value your perception of timepieces.

Thanks and cheers!

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I vote for Robbie to be RWG watch historian. It is an excellent source of info regarding the true value of watches (being them reps or gens). If we are really into this hobbie is this little details and scrutiny of what lies beneath that makes the pulse rush (both in the heart and in the watch). I really value your perception of timepieces.

Thanks and cheers!

Thanks turbo - and I'll gladly accept the historian post. I just love the historical significance of our hobby in many respects. Some items and ideas are just so rich and it is great to see form following function and then function following form and back again. There are not many things on this earth that are perfect, but mechanical watch movements are one of them. There is no better moustrap. Every one is just a mainspring for power and an escapement ticking time. Everything else is just this wonderful art and archecture expressing individuality and personality. Just f'n awesome, huh? I am truly passionate and it nice for that to be noticed by such esteemed members. Cheers back to ya!

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One last quick note for consideration guys -regarding Lemania. As I mentioned in the article, the Nouvelle Lemania is actually the in house movement arm of Breguet which is also used by Omega being that they are part of Swatch. So the Lemania factory falls under the same Swatch directive of only supplying complete movements to the outside world and such will cease supply of ebauche 2320's and variants to other manufactories outside the group.

Patek claims to only be tooled up to make a maximum of 250 5070's in a calendar year and as of a few years ago claimed to have sizeable stocks of ebauches. I have no data on Vacheron's ebauche status for the 2320's, but I have to assume they must be doing OK as they just discontinued the Malte Chronograph and replaced it with brand new Patrimony Traditionelle Chronograph at SIHH this year. So as I said, I assume they must have something worked out and/or are well stocked, given that they didn't introduce a different movement for the latest column wheel chronograph handwind timepiece.

If anyone has additional information on the state of Lemania ebauches as it relates to some of these brands, please contribute what you know. It is hard to believe that these classic movements will be disappearing one day soon (or soon enough / eventually as it were) from all but Breguet timepieces...:black_eye:

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  • 7 months later...
  • 9 months later...

I had forgotten I did this. There are a few additions regarding these movements I'll add soon and I may try to do a whole post on Saxon/Dresden column wheel chronos as well if I can collect enough histroic research. Everytiem I start spending more time here I start thinking "projects". lol...

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this info has been great help, i have one question if anyone can help me. i am picking up a 809 case with slide rule soon and i have a dial ready to go. now i aslo have a ST-19 out of a rep daytona and was hoping to use this as temporary until i can afford a gen movement. does anyone know if the movement thicknesses are the same as it would effect the crown stem hight. thanks in advance

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  • 1 year later...

I'm a little late, but thank you for the write up.  Over three years later and it's still a great reference!  I just purchased and am currently waiting for delivery on a speedmaster pro rep with the ST19 movement from perfect clones, and it is nice to know a bit of the history behind the movement.  I knew the rep had the ST19 movement in it, and was the reasoning behind the imperfect dial spacing, but did not know that it was more closely related to the Venus 175, rather than the Lemania movement, so thank you again.

 

-Shaun

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  • 10 months later...

Does anyone know which movements share the same click spring for the ST19?  Looked on cousins for the Venus 175, and found a click spring for the Valjoux 7730, but its not a circular print like the one found in the ST19.

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  • 5 months later...

FANTASTIC post!

Finally I got why I couldn't get a rep PP or VC with correct dial: the reps all have Venus 175. The gen PP and VC and a lot of others have the Lemania 2310, which has the pinions of the subdials placed in a different position.

Practically only the Breitling Chronomat, few Maurice Lacroix, Golay Spierer used the 175. None of them are actually repped.

 

So, currently, the only one to get with such movement is the re-issue of the 1963 Chinese Air Force chronograph reissued in the later mid 200s by Tsinlien Sea-Gull HK:

seagull-1963-air-force-watch-sapphire-cr  seagull-1963-air-force-watch-sapphire-cr

 

 

 

(not exactly my taste with all those colors between dial and hands and indexes)

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