blackbard Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I have two watches with 6497 movements that seem to jump or miss a gear while winding. I had one watch that did it before, now after a decasing and possible stem change by my watchmaker, both seem to do it now. I completely disassembled and reassembled the keyless works on one thinking that the spring which holds the lever in place was the problem as did my watchmaker. This did not seem to have any positive affect. I now believe that the stems are to blame. What is the effect of having too long a stem? What is the effect of too short a stem? I believe that too short does not allow the "winding gear" (not sure what it is called) to not be fully engaged and it is slipping causing the "jumping" and consequently a clicking sound. If you watch the movement while winding, you can see that the clicker is causing the sound and you can see the main winding gear from the rear slip back a bit. Can the experts chime in? I am now beginning to work on my own pieces and although it is a pleasure, these little things come up. BTW, one of the stems was too long on the gear side and when installed and the crown locked down, it broke so I have learned that you trim the stem on the threaded side? Any advice will help. I will need to order new stems I suppose if this is the issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 In my experience the problem is limited to Asian copies of the 6497 and seems to be a recent problem, meaning I have not seen this type of problem until about a year ago. When I started to note this problem, I found that the clicking sound was between the crown wheel and the keyless works winding pinion. Sometimes the click would slip on the mainspring ratchet wheel as well, but not all the time. It's a design issue, I replaced the gears with ETA gears and it didn't fix it. A too long stem is readily apparent, the crown lever won't close. A too short stem is also easy to spot, if you can't tighten the set lever screw without forcing the crown towards the case, it's too short. You should be able to insert the crown with the movement in the winding position (Always remove the stem in the Winding position) and tighten the set lever screw without having to press the crown towards the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Thanx The Zigmeister. As far as I can tell, and you are the expert here, these are swiss movements...I did the same as you and replaced the entire keyless with another set and still have the issue. Then, when I had another watch reassembled, it started to display the same characteristic... I'm baffled...Now, after your reply, a little worried.... In my experience the problem is limited to Asian copies of the 6497 and seems to be a recent problem, meaning I have not seen this type of problem until about a year ago. When I started to note this problem, I found that the clicking sound was between the crown wheel and the keyless works winding pinion. Sometimes the click would slip on the mainspring ratchet wheel as well, but not all the time. It's a design issue, I replaced the gears with ETA gears and it didn't fix it. A too long stem is readily apparent, the crown lever won't close. A too short stem is also easy to spot, if you can't tighten the set lever screw without forcing the crown towards the case, it's too short. You should be able to insert the crown with the movement in the winding position (Always remove the stem in the Winding position) and tighten the set lever screw without having to press the crown towards the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I reread your last comments. Very illuminating. I believe I have been removing the stem incorrectly. AND, on top of that, your description of having to push the stem in to tighten the screw sounds familiar. I need to look at those things. On the click issue, the click wheel seems to slip as well, so I thought it might be related to that too... In my experience the problem is limited to Asian copies of the 6497 and seems to be a recent problem, meaning I have not seen this type of problem until about a year ago. When I started to note this problem, I found that the clicking sound was between the crown wheel and the keyless works winding pinion. Sometimes the click would slip on the mainspring ratchet wheel as well, but not all the time. It's a design issue, I replaced the gears with ETA gears and it didn't fix it. A too long stem is readily apparent, the crown lever won't close. A too short stem is also easy to spot, if you can't tighten the set lever screw without forcing the crown towards the case, it's too short. You should be able to insert the crown with the movement in the winding position (Always remove the stem in the Winding position) and tighten the set lever screw without having to press the crown towards the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I have had a similatr problem and it was caused when i cut a stem to short, if i pressed thwe crown in it would wind ok but in the normal winding pos it would slip a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Bingo. Thank you FxrAndy! I believe you are correct. I forgot to mention, if I push the crown in, it seems to work better. I will order two stems. Anyone here have any to sell before I order? The Zigmeister, sorry for missing that key piece of info! I have had a similatr problem and it was caused when i cut a stem to short, if i pressed thwe crown in it would wind ok but in the normal winding pos it would slip a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 if i was home i would be able to help you out but unfortunatly i am away at school, if you can wait 2 weeks i can order a few and send you what you need? are you in the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I appreciate it, but in US. Cousins has them, but I'll post a wanted ad here first before ordering. Thanx again! if i was home i would be able to help you out but unfortunatly i am away at school, if you can wait 2 weeks i can order a few and send you what you need? are you in the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Diddy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 how reliable are the Asian 6497 hand winding movements? are they costly to repair or to buy? thanks PD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I'll let The Zigmeister answer on the repair costs, my assumption is that it is not much if any more than swiss. Having said that, you can pick up entire watches with asian OR swiss movements for $100 or less. They just may not have the "Pam" stickers or signatures on the movements. how reliable are the Asian 6497 hand winding movements? are they costly to repair or to buy? thanks PD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 how reliable are the Asian 6497 hand winding movements? are they costly to repair or to buy? thanks PD Here you go, all you wanted to know but were afraid to ask... Asian 6497 review They are a less than $50 movement. Keep in mind that there are a number of variations on this same movement, none are better quality, some are not so good, stick with one from one of the dealers here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have just repaired one 6497 with this problem. It was the keyless work winding pinnion. Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Please explain...Or is it in the tutorial. I have just repaired one 6497 with this problem. It was the keyless work winding pinnion. Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Please explain...Or is it in the tutorial. No turotial needed...just buy this piece and replace the damaged one. Easy work! If this is the problem! Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 @Francisco, Does the ETA part interchange into an Asian movement? O/S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 @Francisco, Does the ETA part interchange into an Asian movement? O/S I guess so (90% sure). I used an Asian part for the replacament. However, just today I am going to buy the Swiss replacement. Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think most of the Keyless parts do exchange with the ETA parts. I don't think the gears or balance wheel etc are interchageable. I tried the same fix Francisco, but on the one I had, the problem came back, it was almost like the parts were not machined correctly and there was too much space between the gear you show, and the winding gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think most of the Keyless parts do exchange with the ETA parts. I don't think the gears or balance wheel etc are interchageable. I tried the same fix Francisco, but on the one I had, the problem came back, it was almost like the parts were not machined correctly and there was too much space between the gear you show, and the winding gear... I will track the watch I repaired.... In this case the teeth seemed a bit shorter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Excellent! Thanks! No turotial needed...just buy this piece and replace the damaged one. Easy work! If this is the problem! Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 so far on the asians i have fitted swiss balance and springs, winding wheels, stems canon pins, hour wheels, but if you want to fit the going train you have to change it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Good info Randy. I must have had different versions, none of the wheel fit, the pivots were different sizes, and the balance wheel staff was too long and jamming up. The rest of the stuff you mention seems the same, cannon, hour, minute, keyless works stuff,winding gears, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 As a follow up, I replaced the Clutch wheel which, when looked at under a loupe, was ever so slightly worn. It looked very normal to the naked eye... No more jumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbard Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I mean the winding pinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Necro bumping day guys sorry… Having the same issues and google sent me here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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