josevancouver

Here's a photo of my 5517 which I have spent a bit of time vintagizing:

Here's what it looked like when I first bought it from another member:

Understand your frustration around getting a rep that screams "fake" because of the markers, etc. I would suggest aging the dial and sourcing some parts to mod it and make it look more authentic.

Great points JohnG. When I go to any store, I fully expect that the price may go up or go down by 2-5%. That's BUSINESS. Price-fixing or lying about a product is another thing. The best way to send a message to dealers we don't like is to stop buying from them.

As for Dani being weak-minded, I would agree. Pretty lame tactic.

Jose is a newcomer to this forum, but not to the hobby. And even if he were, calling attention to someone's low post count in an attempt to undermine their credibility is a favored tactic of the weak-minded. Surely you don't want to be perceived that way... so why not let your arguments stand on their own merit rather than calling someone you disagree with "noob"?

I am NO fan of the cartel and have never purchased from them. And if they attempt to fix pricing or lie about their product I am very quick to speak out. But this thread is about a price increase in a watch. Nothing more. Any dealer can price any watch anyway he or she wishes. As long as there is transparency as to what the product actually IS and they are not trying to force other dealers to similarly increase their price, then there is no legitimate complaint to be made. Calling attention to the fact that a watch is overpriced is appropriate - but insinuating that the act of raising a price, just because you don't like it, constitutes some sort of fraud is beyond silly.

We are all (in theory) adults here and can make informed and responsible choices for ourselves. If you don't like a price, simply buy the watch from someone else.

Hey Noob - don't even trying calling me a noob because I am definitely not one. Noob on number of posts on this board, definitely not a noob in this hobby.

I am not siding with Josh or any cartel or whatever. I have bought from practically every dealer for the past few years and if a dealer bumps up the price of a watch by 20-30 dollars, I'm not going to cry 'scam'. This board and others exist to educate and prevent us from getting ripped off by fake scam websites. If a dealer bumps up a price by a certain amount, I don't call that a scam. If I don't like it, I buy from someone else. If everyone else does too, I guarantee that the dealer may start dropping the price down. I also don't buy $700 reps because I know full well that even at a 100% markup, the cost to build the watch is $350.

Hi noob.

Herey herey

I em not talking about all the reps, i em talking about hustling you now like drug dealers giving you cocaine they say is 80% pure and it turns out you paid a premium for 40% crap mixed whit all kind of garbage.

Thats have they are doing on the Asian 7750 they sell you crap for 450-1100$ for the price of Swiss 7750 Quality..

You see this forum is here to help members not dealers if some like Dave enjoy spending and can afford this high priced reps then fine for him but not all can or are willing to spend 700 on something that shoud cost maximum of 400..

My collection is all Swiss movements that can be serviced and use spare parts hens they have some value something a 7750 Asian does not..

Cheers

how is raising the price on a watch a scam? I'm not suggesting Josh is perfect, but the guy is running a business. If he wants to raise the price on some watches and lower them on others, isn't he just running his business? The last Steelfish I bought was from Narikaa because I like the price better. I didn't do it because I thought Josh was scamming anyone, just that the price was better from Reg.

you are just a sheep man if you can't see they are hustling.

business yes, but this and other forums was created to benefit us members from being hustled or scammed hens this thread and why you will not see a thread on the graham going down 100bucks.

Cheers,

Dani

I run a large operation and yes, prices for services go up in certain areas (based on demand and cost) and some go down.

I don't think you are being a sheep about it Dave

'cartel'.....this is not drugs.....or is it?.....

Price up on that watch,price down on another watch,BUSINESS.....does anyone here beside me run one?....

The Graham Diver went down a hundred bucks....where is the complaint thread about it?.....

I just bought a HBB 'mellow yellow' from the 'cartel'....bastards sold me it for only $488....it was around $1100 last year.....man,am i pis sed at the price i just paid.....need to start a thread whining about it.....damn 'cartel'......

I lightly polished and lubed the bracelet and the watch just looks and feels so gen-like. The AR on this is terrific - one of the best parts outside of the dial and bezel.

Here are some quick pics of mine. I had the rubber strap but switched to the steel bracelet.

Pros: awesome AR, great crisp dial, nice bezel, well-constructed

Con: movement was 'wonky' when I got it. Stopped for no apparent reason. I had to shake it a few times very hard to get it moving and wore it non-stop for a week (no problems). I stopped wearing it for about 2 weeks and put it on, no problem.

Maybe the movement needed to be worked in a bit??

Jose

For what it's worth, I PM'ed Italiano about his experience and he said the watch wasn't working. He advised me to stay away.

I really, really like the watch, and want one. Just want to make sure that it's not a paperweight.

Group Shot....

Vintage Comex Sub...

I actually believe that Victoria=Posh. Here's why:

1. Writing style

2. Constant references to pop culture (actors, politicians, etcv.)

3. British woman who lives in the US

4. Constant references to her Mom and Dad (Victoria and Posh both do that)

I know that there are those who will disagree, but it's pretty hard to prove that she isn't the same person. After all, it's the Internet! One could compare the IP addresses of V and P, Paypal accounts for Ellite/VIP memberships, etc. but I'm pretty sure that V=P.

Jose

A few from my vintage collection:

Vintage Explorer 2:

Vintage 5512:

Vintage GMT:

If I'm not mistaken, there are two versions of the SOSF. I have both, and recently bought the noob version from Reg (Narikaa). The Noob version has (could be wrong) an Asian movement, mineral crystal,and a single coating coating of AR. I don't think there is a Swiss ETA version.

One thing I do know about TWP is that he left a lot of members on RG without watches when he 'disappeared' screwing members over who had paid for watches and mods from him. Just to be clear - he left RG as a preferred dealer after screwing over many - not over some issue with Josh/Andrew.

when all the TWP taking over the North America business started is when I was banned.

I simply asked Dawg why is he allowing Josh and Andrew to try and block TWP.

I believe Pug asked it about the same time. But I drew the heat.

Dawg wouldnt answer me and then Anubis jumped in on me.

I then asked him: "Are you dawgs keeper" jokingly, but he didnt think it was funny....lol

Natron

Photos of my 'vintagized' Explorer 2 McQueen:

Need to replace the crystal as the cyclops isn't great, but otherwise, I'm happy with the work done on the dial and markers.

Jose

EXACTLY. The consumers buy the product, not the forum. The forum can allow debate and reviews, but the consumers send a message to the dealers/factories when they choose not to pay for lousy service, or substandard product.

Not wanting to get into specific dealers, there have been a few recommended dealers on RG and RWG who have been banned or have received consistently bad reviews. As a consumer, I decided not to buy any products from them (up to the point of getting banned) after reading some of those reviews. I'm sure others did the same thing.

The forums dont need to do a thing except alow the discussions to go on. I know you are agreeing with me and the way of thinking TJ, but THE CONSUMER has to act not the forums.

Price-fixing is not just something that happens with Chinese imitation-watch dealers - it happens all over. Ever wonder if gas stations nearby agree on a price to gouge customers with? Having said that, it's ridiculous and the consumer loses out whether it's filling up your car with price-fixed gas or watches.

I've been a customer of Andrew's and Josh's and have received (for the most part) good service and quality products (especially Josh). I don't shop exclusively with them - I've been a customer or many other dealers as well. I think it's healthy to have a number of dealers out there to compete and drive prices down. Once again, the biggest message we can all send the dealers/factories out there is to refuse to pay for products which are ridiculously over-priced. It's all about supply and demand. If the demand for over-priced products is low, trust me - the factories/dealer will lower the prices.

Of course I would never defend 'price fixing'- however, it is a fact of life in any business involving merchandise- the manufactures always dictate the highest and lowest prices, and the sellers are always held to a certain level of sales.

All of the items we purchase through our associations on this board all come from a very limited number of actual manufacturers, in spite of claims that 'my copy is special because it is lubricated with REAL goat semen-' or other ridiculous claim. As such, if one dealer were to suddenly begin to drastically undersell others, it would hurt the business of the others, ultimately driving some out of the business (and lets face it, we are not an easy lot- anybody heard from Eddie lately??)

I have been a customer of Andrews for some time, and have been very happy with the transactions. I accept the price fixing which happens as a natural consequence of the business. In a grey/black market endeavor such as this, that we are offered any level of customer service is a miracle, and if the prices are a little higher- so be it.

You can throw them off the board, but there is nothing new about this type of practice, and it will continue whether they are on RWI or not- and still get plenty of business.

-O

BTW- Andrew fixed my ROO in 5 days without a hitch. Try getting that from an AD.

What I am saying, is that I am tired of watching prices getting out of control when I know full well that the markup is astronomical to begin with. Regardless of dealers or whatever, the easiest way to send a 'message' to price-fixing and outrageous prices is to say 'no - I'm not going to pay $1K for a fake Hublot. no - I'm not going to pay some outrageous price that has been artificially set'.

Really Ridiculous?!?! Multiple seperate dealer complaints over an extended period of time accusing the same thing, obviously didn't seem to ridiculous to the admin team over at RWI. Anyway, as a board the admins can chose to endorse them or not endorse them... Whether members continue to buy from them really has no bearing on the decision, each person must make that choice for themselves.

Oh, I'm sure Andrew cares. Members on this board and others like RWI and RG are primary customers of his and Josh's.

One comment about the price-fixing and everything else. I agree that what has been alleged is ridiculous, but the easiest thing to do is refuse to buy reps that are ridiculously over-priced to begin with. Prices are getting higher and higher and I know full well that material and labour costs do not equal a retail price with a 100% markup. Vote with your wallet. That's the biggest thing that will send a message to ANY dealer or factory that ridiculously high prices will mean less customers and less revenue in the long run. I for one refuse to spend over $350 for a replica watch . It's a replica!! Some of these prices for the Hublot reps and the dollars being spent on them.....

I don't know about that. As a member mentioned earlier, try searching Google for "replica watches" or "fake watches" and see how many pages of results you have to go through before you find ANY of the trusted dealers, if they show up at all. Most if not all of their business originates from forum references. If Jandrew is such a big shot and he commissioned these super reps by supplying the gens, why not keep ALL of the factories production of that watch and control prices that way?

It's one thing to criticize Andrew and Josh but another to start claiming that Josh and Andrew are somehow in 'cahoots' with the admin/owners of RG.

RG has been supportive of competitors/dealers outside of Josh/Andrew - ie. TTK (who was banned here). They've also removed dealers like TWP. Don't drag RG into this one. They have a diferent style in how they handle things. For example, any criticism of other boards - (RWG and RWI for example) wouldn't be tolerated over there. Watch how fast the mods jump on stuff like that.

If RWI decided to suspend/ban Andrew/Josh, that's an issue for them to decide and they may very well have good reason to.