JohnG

If Germany is not your final destination you will not clear customs there. Your baggage will be checked through to the final destination country and that is the country you need to worry about. How are customs in your country? (I fly through Frankfurt frequently when arriving in the EU and have never had to clear customs there - my final destination is Spain.)

Looks ok to me.

In my case, I need a watch to "complete" my tool kit!

So I ordered a SSD from Ruby and that hasn't arrived yet but I am checking the tracking every 20-30 minutes so that the NSA will have something to get nervous about. In the meantime I purchased a Sea-Dweller Took Kit from an eBay seller with hundreds of transactions and 100% positive feedback. He sells a lot of these and I figured, if they are fake he can't be fooling EVERYONE, right? I purchased BIN and paid PP w/ cc and then in payment details I saw that the seller is... Chinese! So I guess he IS fooling everyone. Either that or a dude in China has access to dozens of gen kits weekly and they are only worth $40 plus about $3 shipping. If you have been wondering since the beginning, WHY? the simple (and honest answer) is, to get chicks of course. Isn't that the real motive behind everything we do in life (our members of the "other" persuasion excluded of course). So today I received my kit in the mail and I could tell the mailman in my teeny tiny little rural Spanish town is dying to know what this package is so I say, "this is from China!" And he says, "yes I saw all the stamps..." Big silence. "I have been really anxious to get this," I finally say, and after signing, I disappear inside. Hahaha! I don't have an expensive camera but I have tried to do the best job I could with my old Canon Powershot. Let's see what we have here: The kit really only has one tool that I can see - it is that little silver thing at the top. The rest is filler. This is how it looks when you open up the vinyl wallet-like thing (do they really think anyone carries these around?). Mine is going straight into the drawer and in twenty years my kid will find it and promptly lose the screwdriver and when I finally notice two years later I will be really [censored]. Okay, so it looks nice but would Rolex ever use vinyl? Ah, but maybe the gen is designed to get wet? - for all I know this is an "ultimate super" tool kit. So I have never held a gen Rolex in my hand much less a tool kit. Hell, I have never held a rep either. But my intuition, my gut, my whole being, tells me that when I hold this little link thing (not really sure what it is) in my hand, it FEELS like a gen! It has a very nice brushed ss surface but is polished on the sides. It really is quite cool, whatever it is. Ok, let's see the back side (or maybe it is the front)... It has markings - but are they correct? Who knows. This I can identify. It is a screw driver on one side and a little punch on the other - for changing screws and pins would be my guess. eBay seller calls this a "translation" book - it has some stuff about Rolex and the COSC testing and then they repeat it in a bunch of languages. I dive but I haven't looked at a dive table since I took my cert course back in 96. And even if I used one, would I trust a rep? Better to trust the batteries in my dive computer. But the finish is nice, cc type feel - obviously water-resistant (nothing is waterproof, only varying degrees of water-resistant). Could have it tested I suppose. In conclusion, the pros are that it looks cool, nobody that I know personally has ever seen one of these so I won't get called out on my tool kit, and that screw driver might come in handy for my Ray Bans (gens). Hell, maybe I will get laid with the kit - that's why we're really in this after all. The cons are that I don't know what the link thing is for (but it is cool) and I won't ever use the this kit after I photograph my SSD with it. I don't care for the vinyl and the translation book, though very thorough, has no Esperanto translation. But these are points that most of us don't really care about so all in all this is a great kit for the money. I am pretty sure only a Rolex WIS (whatever the [censored] THAT is) could call you out over this, and it will be really hard for even them to do it when it is sitting in your desk drawer under the box of staples and on top of a bunch of utilities bills. Thanks to all those who have collaborated in my exhaustive research effort. JuanG

FYI for those who don't know him: William Edwards Deming American statistician, educator, and consultant whose advocacy of quality-control methods in industrial production aided Japan's economic recovery after World War II and spurred the subsequent global success of many Japanese firms in the late 20th century. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-90298...-Edwards-Deming

Could be. I have never been clear - do the "cartel" dealers dropship? I have seen some people say this but others say so and so is a great and trusted dealer - but if they were dropping shipping crap they wouldn't have such a good reputation or would they? I have a different theory - ignorance. For example, the idea of statistical quality control was invented by Americans but was implemented by Japanese manufacturers long before the practice became routine in the U.S. American industry had to get an ass-kicking from the Japanese before they began to really take it seriously. That was ignorance. I think China, as an industrial and capitalist entity, is still in its adolescence and this is even more true when talking about grey or black market products. They may just not know - because in many ways the idea that spending more money will ultimately save you money is counter-intuitive to many people.

Dizz, I ordered from Ruby and am waiting for my first rep - a SSD - to arrive. I would ask her this question but lately her response time to email is slow - does only Angus have this rep or is it likely that Ruby who does not keep stock and supposedly sources from the factory has sent me this newer version? When I ordered I thought I had done my homework but I guess not - didn't realize there were two SSD's out there. If you have no idea - when it arrives if I post pics over here would it be easy for you guys to tell me which version I have? Thanks.

I wish I had read this thread before ordering my SSD. On the other hand it seems clear that whatever you buy, nothing is perfect nor will it ever be. I read a review of the SSD that said it was a very very nice rep right out of the box and then I saw another thread (can't remember which forum) that had a side by side with the gen and the SSD and the thing that seemed most obvious to me was the color of the stainless steel - the gen was whiter. I shouldn't have read this thread because now I am dreading the arrival of my SSD (as if I wasn't stressed out enough already from wondering if the next ice age will arrive first).

That would be true if you didn't have to deal with the consequences of NOT QCing the watches. But for the dealers here who repair or replace watches all the time, they have an interest in getting in right the first time. Does it cost them more to look at a watch closely for a few minutes and let it run for a day on a winder than to deal with the fallout when one out of two customers is unhappy and sending watches back for repair/replacement? Answering emails, handling the returned items, getting them repaired, and reshipping at the dealer's cost all takes time and money - usually it is money that they could have saved themselves with a MINIMUM of effort. QC is not just in the customer's interest - it usually lowers total costs for the seller as well. Do anyone really think Dell or Bic pen or Timex or Tampax does QC out of the goodness of their heart? They do it because they make more money when they do it than when they don't do it.

Thanks Iceberg!

Yes, we all know what we are buying and some of us are saying we don't like it. I am going to watch EuroTimez because he seems to have the right idea. He mentions having to eat a watch that the factory would not take back. Let's say that watch cost 250 dollars to the end consumer. Even if every FIFTH watch was so bad that it could not be fixed AND the factory could not take it back, by adding 50 dollars to the cost of the watch (so charging 300 dollars) EuroTimez could still maintain the same margin and WE would all get good watches the FIRST time. I know they are reps and not perfect but there is no reason whatsoever that we can't ask for more (and get it). If EuroTimez proves himself, I will buy from him for sure. For my first watch I ended up going with another seller but I will switch the minute that I am convinced that he is the real deal (looking good so far) and he has a watch that I want. I am thrilled by this thread by the way. I would love to see more like it. I would also love to see a thread where the dealers actively participate in these discussions so together we can all find solutions. But honestly that won't happen until they start getting hosed by really good dealers. I hope EuroTimez grows fast and gives them hell!

Actually it is a tool for unjamming color copiers, that if you hold it the right way, LOOKS like a firearm. I have subdued many criminals with miscellaneous office supplies. Even a mousepad, in the hands of a highly trained individual, can be quite an effective weapon.

Yeah, but her gen has a SS bracelet (it is not the Hampton Classic) and she wants a strap for her every day watch (for some variety). And yeah, the Patek would be a hard sell.

JohnG was already taken!

How about opening a new word doc, selecting a large font, and writing STOP LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER YOU PUD KNOCKER

GF has a B&M gen, wants a rep for day to day. For us that is a lot of money to be using as a daily beater.

Closed at

I have already asked Ruby and she has not seen a rep of this watch but I thought I would ask on the forums before telling my girlfriend it doesn't exist... She prefers the leather but I would buy the SS bracelet and swap for a band if I had to. Pics below. Thanks!

True, not a good source of [reaonably] unbiased information. But am I the only one who noticed THIS: The irony is that there is a lot of truth in the statement as written, despite the fact that it is clearly a product of sloppy proofing.

Uh, no he hasn't. He says simply that the article he read woke him up to the possibility that slave labor MAY be involved in the manufacture of these watches ("I feel that if this is happening, it is far more likely to be happening in the factories we buy [our] reps from...") and that until such time as the issue is resolved to his satisfaction HE is not going to buy more reps. He offered the topic up for discussion - advocating that others adopt a similar posture but accepting and respecting the decision of those who don't. The weird thing is that is seems that the OP has shown more respect for those (such as myself) who would require more proof before changing their policy towards reps, than many of them do for HIM. I have sensed in a lot of the posts offering opposing opinions a certain ridicule or derision (I am not including you Ken - just speaking generally now) for the OP's points. Many if not all of his points are valid, the possibility is there and in the black market the potential for abuse is amplified but for now I will not change my buying habits. I don't need to tear him or his points down to say, "I need more proof."

Don't put words in my mouth. I suggested they are not where money is most needed - I said nothing about them being useless. When the affluent give money to organizations that mostly benefit THEM, that is not charity, that is service of self (philanthropy is the pretty word). I am a painter and practically lived in the Prado for the better part of a year and later in the Museum of the Royal Academy (also in Madrid) but I don't kid myself that when I donate to a museum (which I do every year) that that is "charity." That is supporting an institution that I patronize. Real charity is giving time or money to provide food, medicine, housing, or basic services (such as education, sanitation, or clean water) to those in true need.

Is that true? If it is, I am sure the trust benefits operas, museums, and botanical gardens - you know, the places where money is needed most.

What a great analogy. I am being sarcastic.

By that argument everyone who has ever jaywalked, exceeded the speed limit, parked illegally, or committed any number of other minor infractions, would be a hypocrite if they ever lamented the occurrence of another (slightly more heinous) illegal activity. Now it is worth pointing out that at least the U.S. residents on the board are not actually engaged in an illegal activity merely by possessing a rep watch. But I am sure that all of them have broken some law at some time therefore they are surely hypocrites too. I don't buy it. But if you feel like a hypocrite for speaking out against child slavery, by all means, be quiet.