trailboss99

Is it just a problem over here in OZ or does Hont's site load incredibly slow for everyone? Maybe its just all the trafic the debate likly generating for him. Col.

Sorry to confuse you mate but were debating somthing that for the present is happening on another board. Not shure if your aware of that or not. you can find the main thread strarting HERE with the evidence on THIS page. @pug: I still can not see how Andrew could refute this even if it is untrue. Even a total ar)e hole deserves a fair trial before a first class hanging. A writen policy on dealer behavior is a damn good idea IMO. It still leaves the problem of presenting evidence that is irifutable by any real standered. Emails or PMs especialy from a somewhat new dealer are just to easy to fake. Probly not in this case but still questionable. And in fact I intended to make use of our new friend Hont in the near future but dought I will ever use Andrew regardles of my playing devils advocate on his behalf not beacuse of this but beacuse of the above mentioned tantruns when things go wrong. Josh I will continue to use as long as He continues to do the right thing by me. Prob not as much as I would without the whole cartel thing tho. Regards, Col.

Ok, you are right there, maybe I should have been a bit more pedantic with terminolgy. Credibile evidence would be the words I was loking for tho I'm shure you knew what I ment. Defamation was prob the word I should have used since we are not shure if its tru or not and you can defame even if tru. Thats the point, we don't know one way or the other. Hey, chuck 'em off if thats what the longterm members want. Its the airing of allegations that can neither be proved or disproved that I object to as I fail to see how Andrew can efectivly counter these claims. I say again, they may well be tru, but we can't tell for shure. Innocent untill proven guilty. The onus here has been on the accused to prove innocence and that is ar*e about to the way civilised folk do things. Regards, Col.

LOS:BTW, just so you understand where I am coming from, I do belive the two of them are joined at the hip as somone put it. Thats obivious. Chk their IPs. *.190 and *.191. The sites are almost identical and the prices are (for the most) exactly the same. I don't dispute the fact there in carhoots one little bit. I can't PROVE this however. I will go as far as to say that you may very well be correct about the threats alegedly made to Hont. I simply see no way of proving this one way or the other beond resonable dought, an important tennent IMO. Its just the word of one aginst the word of the other. Both have big stake in all this and either could be being a little carless with the truth. Its a criminal activity even CN after all so what do we expect? Regards, Col. Oh, and just for you, here's a cpl of pics you may like.

I have been reading along, there is no proof. All you have is Hont's word for it. I have have stated my opinion over there HERE Feel free to coment. As I said, its your forum, you are free to do and say as you wish this is only my honest opinion. Col.

"]Due to evidence brought forth to the staff of RWI, both Josh and Andrew's sections on RWI have been closed." "What evidence, all I have seen is hearsay. "Andrew has not seen fit to respond or provide any answers on the subject other than to deflect the issue and claim that dealers are conspiring against him. Josh and Andrew have always been viewed as one and the same due to their close connection and business partnership. Thus, we have made the decision to sanction both of them at this time." Why should he respond when a defence is impossible? He did respond, several times to say "not tru" What more can he say? "We have not made this decision easily as these two dealers have been mainstays of RWI. This decision was made due to a concentrated effort by these two dealers to obstruct other valued dealers and, ultimately, you the member from obtaining replicas at a fair price. They have sought to control the market and intimidate other dealers into raising prices." Regretable IF tru but normal bussines pratice especialy in CN. "Others (whether they be members here or on the other forums) will laugh and think that we are silly... They will say that we are shouting at the rain and that we can't change anything... Maybe they are right but our purpose in this world is to bring you, the member, the safest and best replica hobby experience we can..." Your forum, you can do what you like, "You may not agree with our decision, but please respect that we have made this decision with your best interests at heart. " This makes me mad tho. It reaks of "wer'e from the goverment, wer'e here to help you" How dare you presume to know whats in my best interests! You are not my keepers and I did not ask you to act on my behalf "We hope that the closing of their sections is not permanent and that they will respond to us and the topics at hand can be mediated. Until then, their sections will remain closed with this message there." Why should they? I say again you have no eveidence that would even come close to standing up in law and Exactly how do you presume Andrew can refute it? I am not shure where this was going but I reckon its way off the rails now. I say again You have no evidence, just the word of two dealers, one of whome you are choseing to belive and one you do not. Tell me what defence Andrew could offer appart from the benial he has allready made?

Stupid, stupid man. I hope he takes notice of your PM, for his sake! Col.

Yes, A lot of my clients (I work in the super yacht industry) have a selection of gens they rotate depending on activity/time of day. Col.

In my experiance RA generaly does not open his mouth on a tech subject unless he knows what he's on about. He may not have been around all that long but is very fast learner and has solved more than one long standing mystrey in his relitivly short time on the forum. Chk out his post on the Daytona chrono issue in the Reapir and upgrade forum. Regards, Col.

OK, for those of you who don't know me I have been active at "The old forum" For a few months and in that time have done a hell of a lot of reading and surfing on the topic of my new hobby and have read up extensivly on both RWG1 (the "old forum") and The Dark Side on the pros and cons of various dealers. Here's a few thoughts on all this as I see it. andreww: As far as I can gather the two watches (V1 and V2) are from different makers. From waht I have learnt there are many seperate, small factories makeing our toys. It is wrong to asume its only a handfull of large operators. The maker used by Angus simply beat the one that "Jandrew" is buying from to the market by a few days. The price difference is simply a different value put opon a product by a different maker. How does Angus beating Jandrew to market with a simerlar product from a diferent source by a few days at a lower price point turn into sabotage of J&As sales efforts? Shurly thats just healthy competion. If anything Jandrew then sourceing the cheaper product and undercuting Angus's price is a more provocitve move. In either case it just looks like the normal flow of healthy competition to me. On the subject of our importance: Our dealers are relitivly small fish in a big sea. Some may be closer to tuna than minnows but there are no great whits among them. Thats the preserve of the likes of Best Swiss et al. Google "replica watches" and see how many of our dealers come up. The first few pages will almost mirror Fakeys scam daeler list. Go to Firetrusts list of chinese scams (The definitve list of CN scam and counterfiet web sellers) and most of our dealers don't even rate a mention. As far as our dealers go the first tier appears to consist mostly of the "cartel" dealers followed by the likes of HOS, Ruby and Angus ect. The point to rember is their all good folk compared to the big fish. They all give a mesure of customer service, they (mostly) provide a reasonably accurate description of the goods offered and sell at a fair price. That puts all of them well above the level of the real top tier in price, value and service but they are not big dealers. They rely not on tens of thousands of customers buying one, maybe two overpriced watches from them instead the get their trade from the dedicated hobiest, US! We come to them two ways, the peeps who but a few watches from the top tier dealers and gain intrest further than a cpl of "nice watches" and thru research find these forums and those who do their reasearch first and don't get stung at all/ This also explains the two types on these boards, the dedicated ones in for the long haul (prob most reading this) and those whp hang arround long enough to get advice on where to buy the one or two watches they want and them dissaper for ever.They rely on the fact that a lot of us will buy many, many watches over a oeriod of years rather than one or two at inflated prices. Therefor they have to look after us if they wish to stay afloat. In this trade, like most, the smaller you are the more you rely on repeat buyers and the beter your customer service must be to keep clients happy. We are their base! any "stumble in" sales are just cream on the bread and butter (us). However: this does not meen they exist to serve us, just to service us. Try to remember this. They exist to service us but serve themselvs. This is how it should be. They do this to make a living after all. I belive however that we do have a reasonable amount of influnce with our dealers and should not be afraid of wheeling it if the situtation dictates. Don't belive me? Even scam dealers will reply on these forums and try to appear "nice" if a complaint is raised here. I have seen many examples of this, usualy shot down PDQ in grand style in a manor befiting their status but the fact they even try shows our influnce. After all, the only other hits on those first few pages of a Google search other than the top tier "scam" dealers (or their equaly scam "review" sites) are from the leading forums. Anyone doing ant serious reaserch before pulling the trigger will find us. Forums: three??? come on guys. there's four: RG, RWI. RWG1 and RWG2. Forgeting your roots? The debate at The Dark Side: Just who do yopu guys think you are? How can this be proven one way or the other? Its he said/she said and the only ones who know the truth are the two dealers involved. There has been no hard evidence produced either way and its all just hearsay and is not a fitting topic for public disertation. The only poll logicly possible on this should read "Who do you belive" 'cause thats what it comes down to on the evidence presented. No compent judge would retire a jury on the evidence presented so far so why should we? Were talking peeps livlyhood here. Let the buyers vote with their dollars and may the beter dealer win. If Radio shack brought out a new new sub base only to be beaten in price by Sharper Image would we call an inquistion? I think not. Our dealers are companies competing for our trade. not dueling protected species. Can you but an iphone from any mobile reseller? No, Apple deal with selected resellers in a particular market, thats how it goes and we accept it. Why should we expect anything more from what is basicly a pirate/underground trade? Calling for fair play in an industry thats on the wrong side of the law and arguably imoral/unethical is way left field in the first place. Almost everybody has commited a criminal act by buying reps so who are we to judge? The main point however is that There is no proof one way or the other so how can we/you make a judgement? Plus, Competion is GOOD! Ok, enough from me, discuss. Regards, Col. PS: A note on loyalitys: I don't have any. So far I have only bought from Josh and intent to buy next from either Ruby (Navi) , Silax (Rado Jubilee) or Eurotimez (TT noobmariner,blue dial) and am willing to buy from any of our "trusted dealers" if they have what I want at the price/quality point I want. That's the free market in action. PPS: This is prob far to long and oppinionated a post for a first on these forums but I felt I had somthing to say so I said it, THATS free speach in action.