BigCrown

Your watch rocks. You have excellent taste. I've never owned an aftermarket dial that good

You're nuts if your Patrizzi all original. It's double the value

Great tuto..looks simple but for me is like to cut time bomb wires.

LOL. Trust me, there will be some members who brave this and end up with bent scratched hands on their AP.

AP Diver Lens Replacement Tutorial

Here is a simple, step by step procedure to remove and install the new Colorless AR Date Cyclops Lenses that will be finished later this month.

1. Remove the caseback: there are 8 round screws that hold the caseback in place. These crews actually go through the entire mid-case and attach to the hexagonal screw heads seen from the bezel. This is a great sign because the AP Diver actually uses 1:1 case construction. I found this very impressive.

2. Remove the base metal 'cap' that encapsulated the movement. There are four small screw heads that need to be removed.

3. Remove the winding stem. To release the 'clutch', aka keyless works system that holds the stem in place; there is a small, familiar button that you will need to press with a screw driver or tweezers. Shown with the blue arrow.

4. Remove the movement by removing three screw heads and the steel wings that hold the retainer ring into the case.

5. I find it best to place the movement onto a movement holder (but this is optional). Once secured, you can remove the retainer ring and re-install the winding stem. Be sure to press the keyless works button while you install the stem.

6. The trickiest part! while removing the hands, I generally suggest setting the time to a time that will be easy to re-install the hands later. I typically use noon or 3 o'clock. Pull the winding stem out to the time setting position. This will put the watch into 'hacking' mode. Please use good hand removers that will not scratch the steel hands.

7. The dial is secured by dial feet which penetrate the movement plates and lock into place by two rotating 'wings'.

8. Once the locking wings are rotated outwards (unlocked position), the dial will slide off the movement. (pull upwards so you do not bend the dial feet).

9. The dial is primarily two layers with the cyclops lens 'sandwiched' in the middle. The lower level is also secured by the dial feet.

10. The cyclops is held in place by just a simple sandwich fit (no adhesive). Once the dial plates are separated, the cyclops can easily be removed with tweezers.

11. Now that the ugly blue AR cyclops lens has been removed, you simply retrace these steps to install the new one. I will have an AP Diver with one of the colorless cyclopses installed very soon (next week). Then after our approval, the order will be shipped.

The tutorial is being posted now in this section. I will have the manufacturing sample next week and will be able to show the watch with it installed.

Donerix, interesting 5513. Where did you find that dial?

Interesting... love it!

Here is a Noob Hulk that was sent to me as an experiment. The watch came from Sead and is supposed to be from the Noob Factory.

This is the cheapest movement =version. Not a bad watch at all considering the low cost and the look is impressive.

I used the rep gasket that came with the watch...

Hope you all enjoy the first perfect AP rep EVER!!!!!!

Okay fellas, I am having the crystals and gaskets delivered to me this week (finally).

I am very pleased with this effort and support from our members. Without communities like this, projects like this would not be possible.

Shipping: I will begin the shipping label production over the next few days. So you will be getting a 'item shipped' message from PayPal. Please know that it will not actually be in the mail until I post here that the crystals have been shipped.

Please contact me with any questions. Thank you and take care,

BC

Hello all, I am very pleased to show the final prototype. Thanks to all that have provided input and opinions. I believe the investment of money, labor and time has paid off.

We were able to match the crystal design and AR to match the genuine samples perfectly.

I will let the photos do the talking.

(SORRY FOR THE DUST)

PRECISE APPLICATION OF THE CYCLOPS DIRECTLY OVER AR-ed 'WINDOW'

THE AR 'WINDOW' UNDER THE CYCLOPS

Pre-order and Timing:

The factory says I will have them completed in two weeks, but based on experience with them, I would expect them in three. I will keep the pre-order open until then. So 2 maybe 3 weeks left to get your pre-orders in. After the pre-order is over, the final price of one crystal will be $120 plus shipping (pre-order price is $80 plus shipping). Nice savings for those with faith and patience

Hereis what Sneed was talking about - and I sincerely apologize for not understanding what he meant. PLease keep in mind the Explorer II's and some other cheep-o's are made from photos of the original watch - not anything original.

This is a $140 watch...not 1:1. I will start and continually add to the list of watches that take genuine crystals here:

BigCrownStore

(I'll make the link work as soon as RG is finished with the servers)

OK. Then there's also the "groove" which a gen spec crystal has, and many reps don't. Sure, let's standardize on those terms.

Actually, that's a Sub-C. You can tell by the fact that the first line of text on the dial (even if you can't read it) isn't green, and the lack of the three holes in the bezel ring that capture the rep GMT Master IIc spring that gives it the 24 clicks.

Well, maybe you can't. I can.

I know that. That's why I went and found that pic. You said all reps can take a gen crystal. This is a pic of a rep that cannot.

"Made correctly"? These are reps!

Besides, the whole point of my posting was to answer this statement that you made:

Clearly, the pictured crystal is not "universal" with anything else. And, to answer these questions:

It's less than a year old, and cost north of $200.

You keep wanting to believe that "most" rep crystals will swap. I'm telling you, that's not true.

Not all. 2 of 3.

Of the two, the one in the Sub-C required extensive custom hand-fitting to fit to my satisfaction, and the other one in the GMT Master II was the result of a build using parts from 5 different watches collected over the course of a year specifically in order to be able to accept a gen-spec crystal, it did not from the factory.

Seriously? "Troll"? Now I know why the Zigmeister stopped posting so much.

Feel free to believe what you like, I guess. It's clear from the pictures and updates that you posted that you understand the product you're building, and it's great that you're offering it. But I am telling you, from my experience assembling hundreds of Rolex reps, that NOT ALL OF THEM will take a genuine or gen-spec crystal.

Okay - you win

Your mention about why The Zigmeister doesn't post here is ironic. I believe you are doing this to my thread.

Just ordered... Are these coming with gaskets or is that a separate order kind of thing?

This will be going in my Ginault which is an exact homage of the 16610. Almost bought a gen crystal but it was $300+!

Thanks again

They come with a 1:1 gasket

as was mentioned above, some people may have to use the gasket that comes with their particular watch, or as Sneed mentioned - get creative.

Sneed, we're still not communicating well. Let's clarify the 'beveled edge' of the crystal is what you see when installed and can be seen in your first photo. What I call the 'stepped edge' is what is on the underside and has contact with the gasket.

You have posted photos of three pieces:

GMT IIC (EDIT...oops it's a SubC...iPhone isn't the best for forum photos)

SubC

GMT Master II

For starters, your GMT II crystal is not right. Not even close to correct shape. (so why do I need to answer for your watch which is not made correctly?). Willl a correct crystal fit with the right gasket? I am leaning towards yes based on what I have found.

SubC: this watch proves my point exactly. It is a typical cheaper replica that takes a genuine crystal.

GMT Master II: also takes a 1:1 or genuine crystal.

******

Do you see my point? All of your examples can except a genuine or 1:1 crystal. That is what I have been saying and THE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!!

Troll on!

I'm sure the gens probably all take the same sized crystal.

OK. Show me one.

No, of course not. I'm talking about the reps, which DO have the cyclops in different positions depending on which rep model you get.

I've only assembled a couple of hundred Rolex reps, but please, enlighten me.

Right.

Like many reps.

Like almost every Sub-C rep and GMT IIc rep that I have ever handled.

Besides which, that's not the "step" I was talking about. One of the Sub-C reps had a gen-style crystal without this step (which is pretty standard, and what most of us call the "Noob" crystal). The other one had a crystal with absolutely straight sides and a slight bevel on top.

That's... not true. Most will. Some rep crystals are simply larger than a gen-spec crystal, and so no amount of gasket will make it fit.

I just installed a gen crystal with AR under the cyclops into a Sub-C case. It physically fits fine, but it required me to make a new gasket by hand. The other option is to install the rep gasket upside down--the standard rep gasket has the lip on the bottom (to keep the crystal from bottoming out against the top of the rehaut, since it's a press-in construction) and I've turned it the other way so that the lip fit into the step of the crystal. It works that way too.Uh... thanks for your permission? I'll go ahead and feel free to keep posting what I know.

Sounds great. Try not to get too steamy about this stuff. We are also not communicating clearly enough for me to continue this.

Here's my solution: I'll stick to what I know - which is genuine, 1:1 assembly type watches. You are the official authority on everything else.

I don't want to argue but... You may have been looking at a ExplorerII orange hand before ether got the size right. The first 2 generations were made from Basel world fair photos. Even now, they are making them from a modified GMTII case and not from a watch that they've ever handled.

Let's stick to the genuine watches, and their 1:1 homage equivalents. But to further my point - you are saying, the Rolex Caliber 3135 in this watch requires a different calendar wheel assembly than a Submariner 16610, SubC, GMT IIC etc?

(that is what you are indirectly saying if you say the cyclops is in a different position):

The standard Sub-C takes a gen-sized crystal but without the ridge on the underside, which is why a gen crystal can be made to fit, but to say that it "takes" gen crystal is stretching the truth, I'd say.

Now, you may be out of your element. Do you know what the 'stepped edge' is for? It's for the gasket to fill and create a water proof seal. Any crystal without it is a cheap, common knock-off. Any watch with the one of the cheap crystals will still take a crystal with the stepped edge...it just needs a gasket that is the correct material.

If you have further facts to present feel free to post, or if you want to further discuss PM me.

They're super common. Phong has a parts account, ebay, VRF, etc.

Best of luck!

I have a box full of crystals that came out of different reps that disagrees with you...

(this is a healthy conversation and I am glad you bring this us) Here are my thoughts: How old are they? ...and how much did they cost? I just don;t want to include cheap knock-offs in this discussion.

****

Things are much different now than 2 or more years ago. An evolution/revolution that has occurred. The business model is very different than in years past. The factories have realized that the typical buyer has changed. They now rely on repeat business where before it was selling a fake sub to a person they would never see again.

I am sure you have heard stories about the Chinese trading markets, where all they sell are watch parts and accouterments. I once saw a photo of a guy selling Rolex oyster bracelets in a market. The bracelets were wrapped in plastic and stacked to the ceiling (literally 8-10 feet high).

Also, Generally the dial makers don't make the cases or the crystals, etc. So when a factory makes a new Pam 111 or a 16610 Submariner, they choose the parts they want and order 500-2000 pieces of each, then assemble the watches and distribute to the wholesalers. So, I understand your perspective but want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

This really looks superb. Do you have any idea whether this fits the new ceramics (i.e. the 11661x series)? Also, how can you tell whether a rep is likely to be able to take a gen crystal - are there any measurements that can be made?

Great question. I have found that a lot of reps accept genuine crystals - including the GMTIIC and the SubC watches. I ordered a ExplorerII 42mm watch to test and will have it later this week. This may sound strange that it would work that way, but my theory is that most rep factories buy their crystals from a small number of factories and they are universal (for the most part).

We can make a complete list as time goes on and we test more and more watches, but the Noob, watches advertised as 1:1, TC, WM9, BK, a3135 watches, SeanETAswiss, ... the list goes on and on... I would never have thought this to be true. In fact, I was even shocked that the genuine Rolex GMTIIC and the SubC take the same crystal specifications as the 16610 Sub, sapphire GMT's, 40mm Explorer II's, etc.

With the "geek" down for weeks now, is there an alternate method of contact, BigC ?

Sure... PM me here.

any recent updates on this?

Yes - great progress so far and sooo close to completion.

Here is where we are now:

1. Crystals made 1:1 - DONE

2. Mold for the AR 'window' - DONE and confirmed to work perfectly

3. AR color and application thickness approval - IN PROGRESS

I had the first run of prototypes made and I thought the AR was a little too light (almost invisible). The AR provider sent me a '1 layer' AR sample and a '2 layer' AR version. I rejected the one layer and have asked for a prototype be made with three layer.

It is important to understand how vital the approval process is. Although time consuming, if I do not get it perfect then I/we will be stuck with a lot of crystals that are not exactly perfect. So thank you for your patience.

PRE_ORDER INFO: since the good ol' Geek is down, you can PM me for the pre-order info.

Some scans of the experimental phase:

1:1 Crystal Shape:

(angle of the photo makes it look like the crystal is not quite straight)

Hard to tell from the photos, but I assure you:

-crisp edges

-perfect groove cut around the base (for confident waterproofing)

-far superior equipment cutting these out than any replica crystal - the comparison is easy to see when you see them

Proof that the AR molds work (we just need one more layer of AR application to match my OEM example):

Not quite there but very close!

Dude you had me ! For a few lines anyway.

Nice scans.

Has anyone bout one of the new A3135 watches from Angus? My LV had perfect end

Inks that I kept for my Sean cased 3135 gen dial Sub.

Id just find the Chinese connection for those and buy the bracelets direct.

any updates on this.?

Yes, I have been doing the preorder here:

Big Crown's Store

(IF RG IS DOWN, you can PM ME HERE! )

I will have the prototypes in my hand in a little over one week. Updates to follow.

I have a gen ar crystal here in front of me and big crown is correct, there is no ar on the cyclops. The crystal is ar coated both sides in just that location. It is the only way to go if you have managed to make a mask for the crystal that sits the ar in the right place for the date window. Great work!!!!!!!

Thank you. Yes, we made a mold with a bout-out of the cyclops shape on both sides. The mold(s) are placed over the flat sapphire piece for the AR process. Then the cyclops is applied over the spot.