crystalcranium

Open and free access and limitless information in this illegal trade are like oil and water, they will never mix. You cannot have a forum where ALL aspects of the hobby are open to the public at large without inviting trouble. If this were a website where we discussed our passion for the finest marajuana, we would have a blast talking about the best ways to smoke it, prepare it, mix it, eat it etc. We'd discuss levels of quality, how it used to be in the old days...but we certainly wouldn't openly advertise selling it or provide easily accessed links to ganjaman.com, or have a sellers trade section where we openly traded dime baggies without expecting eventual trouble from authorities. I have always wondered how is it that we do this in what appears to be a modest amount of sunshine without too much trouble. It has always seemed too good to be true. We need to strike a balance between access and cover. There has been way too much "Wal-Mart" in the buying, trading, selling and expectation here. We would be best served with a little more "Pssst...come over here" in our conversations.

I'm afraid we're goin down. We went too far. Too good replicas too out in the open. Damn "Nappy headed reps"!!!!

I'm confused here. The member trade area is a problem but the dealer posts and links are not???

There were pitchforks and torches....and a couple of posters with nooses out in that thread. I'm not wondering why there isn't more posting in general, just why the most intolerant, no slack, a lie is a lie, posters in that thread have not posted a single advertising claim they thought so offensive. Where's the outrage now that a platform exists to put up or shut up??????? I had page after page of back and forth with one member where I pleaded for some level of understanding of the entire picture to no avail. "Do you enjoy being lied to???" was the retort time and time again. No posts from this most outraged member so far.

When you see the genuine, it's easy to see why the replicators missed this. Very hard to spot the cross on the t.

There are, but the threads were full of passion and anger about advertising language pushing boundries all over the place in multiple advertisements with multiple dealers. I have tried to post some of the ones I have come accross on Joshua's site, (sorry Josh, you're the first one I'm sifting through) and they are numerous and the task is daunting but I thought the purpose of the forum was to post specific examples to keep new buyers informed not just to post blanket warnings about "Asian ETA" claims or to list the most egretious misrepresentations. Maybe I'm wrong and if group conscious indicates the misrepresentation forum is just for new advertisements and general warnings, I'll stop listing what I come across. I can only attest to what I see in language. Others who have purchased replicas from dealers with misrepresented super lume, AR coating or purported levels of pre servicing need to speak up and post.

Sounds like more of the same. QC problems galore and a premium price. This is exactly why my replica purchases are restricted to $90 asian 21j pieces these days. I don't care how good this thing looks to HBB owner wannabees, screws falling out and stripping, bracelet problems, the Asian 7750 etc.....$400 is an insane price to pay for a watch of this quality no matter what the fidelity of the reproduction. If you spent just twice as long saving your lunch money as you did saving it for this good looking/dubious quality gem, you could buy a used genuine Speedmaster or an Oris TT1 if you love big metal, and on and on......

Beautiful...Ah Zeetan's the man. I agree with you about the Defy line...a bit over the top. They look like something off Captain Nemo's wrist.

If you want your replica to last for more than a year, don't forget it's a replica. These watches look like the genuine article but the beauty is skin deep only. Treat them with the up most care with regard to shock, water resistance, dirt accumulation etc. An ETA or Asian 21j Submariner, for example, should give you several years of reliable use before you need to ship them off for a service. As long as you are willing to put up with +-30 sec a day performance, an ETA powered replica might go 10 years before it needs a cleaning and oiling. What's much more likely to go on a replica are repetitive use elements like screw down crowns and case tubes or bracelet screws falling out. Water resistance is an absolute, non guaranted crapshoot. Remember, your Omega SMP chrono replica might look like a tank...but you really don't want to take it into battle.

Lots of shouting over the last few weeks from many members about white lies and outright lies. I thought for sure the "Misrepresentation Forum" would rapidly fill with examples of what everyone was outraged over. Perhaps it's still early and perhaps many do not know it's there but I'm starting to understand why the dealers adopt a "bunker till it's over" position when these outraged posts come up. What good do we do the forum if we don't put our facts where our outrage is??? I had several heated exchanges in the latest thread with members who were passionate about the out and out lies being told by dealers. So far, not a one has posted a thread about a misrepresentation. Come on guys!

A mechanical watch movement that is well designed will last for decades or more. I have a 1909 Hamilton Railroad Grade Pocket watch with a 21 jewel 992 movement in it that was recently serviced (disassembly, cleaning, oiled and regulated) and it runs +- 5 sec/day. The Asian 7750 is an accurate copy of the ETA version with some minor differences, (one jeweled bearing less I believe) and in reviews, is mechanically sound. It's the assembly and manufacturing process that's dreadful in these movements. They are dirty, over or under oiled and contain the occasional cockroach leg. Once serviced by a reputable watchsmith, a $200+ investment, they appear to run well. Jeweled bearings last hundreds of years and pallet stones have a similar life expectancy. Don't expect any mechanical watch, genuines included, to be service free. All will require maintainance and service at regular intervals. If your Asian 7750 is going to fail, it will usually do it in the first few days or weeks of continuous running. Failures in the 3-6 month range are rare. Keeping your watch running does not affect long term performance or wear. Oils in the bearings dry at a predictable rate that's independent of use. Your watch movement is not subject to the same forces that other mechanical devices are like an automobile engine. Running your watch until it stops and requires service is not the same as driving your car without oil until you throw a rod. A mechanical watch will stop from an accumulation of friction in the moving parts long before any physical damage is done to the watch. Of course, this friction is reflected in accuracy so many gat their mechanicals serviced before this point. Genuine ETAs are usually the best runners out of the box but be aware, the "Swiss ETAs" in our replicas are produced by the Chinese for the Swiss company and are obtained by the replica manufacturers before they go off to ETA for their final Swisserizing. The consensus is that this is no more than a legal formality having little to do with performance.

Makes sense.

What's the point of putting a 7750 in a 3 hand center post watch??? I can see the point if you have a seconds subdial at 9 but why do it for a non chrono with a traditional hand layout?

And what's with the lousy teak wood stiker on the back of the IWC. The engraved lettering on the caseback looks like paint was scraped from it.

Because these things are made from parts from dozens of sources, and they're not exactly ISO 9001 parts sources.

I wish "Modern Marvels" on The History Channel" would do an hour on time and time pieces through the ages. The story is interesting on so many levels and has elements of drama, intrigue, science and technology, personalities, magnificent success and failure etc.... If they can do episodes on "Bricks", "Snack food", and "Coffee", they sure can do an hour on a pursuit man has been chasing for thousands of years, accurate time keeping. Personally, I think the finest mechanical timepieces represent the pinacle of man's achievement in purely mechanical technology. Worth an hour on the tube to me.

There you go!!!!

I'm not quite sure how we got off on the wrong foot. Maybe you should consider changing the avitar???! I don't think the Spiderman outfit is the problem. It's that dangeling participle. Perhaps my language was inflamitory. Most of the infered ire in my response was aimed at chitown's post. When I said the mechanical watches we collect here were "highbrow" and stated my passion for them calling certain quartz timepieces souless, you took offense. Sorry for that. As for being in the same "we're all phonies boat", personally, I collected replicas because they afforded me the opportunity to own mechanical chronographs and adjustable ETAs for a fraction of the price of a brand name, not simply to impress my friends and co-workers with a watch they wouldn't know anything about anyway, you know......the "best watch in the world is a Rolex" crowd. I honestly thought the best way to answer your question about "where are the quartz replicas of great looking mechanicals" was to state "we've been there....done that." It wasn't a put down. I suppose your OP struck me as a bit challenging and my reaction was "you're willing to wear a quartz rep,...happy shopping on Canal Street" was a little intolerant. Sorry. It's just that damn avitar......it makes me so mad......

Actually, they are an interesting pair. She's a 50 something Israeli woman who is drop dead gorgeous, slightly alcoholic and very heidonistic while he looks like Pierce Brosnan, is a little bit cocaine addicted, smokes cuban cigars and drives a turbo charged Porsche. It looked like that evening they intended to put eachother in some awkward positions!

The Lange's are very classy watches. Unfortunately, the conundrum of display casebacks and manufacture movements prevents replication in the 97% range. Someone a few years ago was putting a decorated micro rotor Seagul movement in a Patek rep that was just gorgeous. Can't find it anywhere but it certainly looked more authentic than the 2824s with Patek Philippe stamped on the rotor.

Thanks for the c and p. Interesting but it covers the part of the rep trade I think we all agree is reprehensible.

Well, not exactly. My jeweler knows I collect genuines and replicas and one evening, she was dining and entertaining clients including the mentioned Rolex regional sales rep. My wife and I ran into them. We engaged in some small talk and he casually said something like "I see from your wrist you recognize and appreciate beauty and quality." He did not handle it but he did take my wrist and took a long gaze at it. This rep has a great dial, excellent rehaut and spot on 2.5X cyclops mag. My jeweler, who a week or two earlier couldn't spot the Sub rep visually but knew from the "feel" it was counterfeit, said "That's one of his fakes". After some more small talk, we walked away and that's when I heard him say, with just a satisfying touch of astonishment "That a fake? My God!". Guess he's used to the ones ypu can spot from 5 feet away too.

I actually love the potential replica discussion more than the "don't ask don't tell" illusion. I have had more knowlegeable watch owners shake their heads in disbelief when informed my watch is a copy than any other reaction. That's the kick in it for me. The look in their eyes when they realize that there's an underground market in very high quality replicas, not the Canal Street cheapos he/she has come to know through reputation, is priceless. They almost always ask "Where did you get that?" I had a Rolex USA regional representitive say to my jeweler after handeling my ETA Sub "That's a fake?...My God!" Dispite the controversy on this board in recent months as we debate endlessly the policing of our hobby and our value for the dollar, this level of replica availability and collecting is still rarified air.

I agree with the observation that at this rate, the polar ice caps will be well melted before they get to our guys.

Yes but a sweeping second hand is major power drain on the power supply requiring far more frequent battery replacements. Seiko does have some prototypes with 1/10th sec sweeps but it would mean retooling the industry. A sweeping quartz second hand would be an aesthetic change, not worth the upheval.