crystalcranium

What is it my wife says to me all the time?......oh yeah..."It's not about you!" Sorry you took my post as a personal afront about your most recent purchases. My reality check came in talking to this guy. I told him I wanted a heavy gold plating,...something on the order of 10 to 15 microns and was informed that was a very special amount of deposited plating, and that a 2.5 micron plating was the most practical thickness. It slowly dawned on me that he was providing truth in advertising and that 5 micron claims from China were dubious at best. Low level light and putting a slightly worn plated watch next to a new plated watch provides a reality check as well.

This company is one of only a few companies who will do small run consumer plating of jewelry and watches. I had a long talk with their owner several months ago about the realities of gold electroplating watches and it didn't instill confidence in me about the quality of Asian GP. Putting a 10 to 20 micron coat on a watch is very expensive ($300+) and they consider a 2.5 micron plating a heavy plating. I have serious doubts about dealer claims about 5 micron GP. Acording to this company, such a coating would not be cheap and would be of very high quality, qualifying as a specialty gold plate. I wouldn't be surprised if most Asian GP falls in the costume jewelry range of 0.5 to 1.5 microns.

Interesting pieces. Now I know how my "digital watch" raised son feels when he looks at a watch with hands. "What time does that say?"

Here's a great link for gold terminology. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/jewel/pages/gold.shtml Note the def for "rolled gold". It comes closest to describing what "wrapped" means. I cant imagine this process being used on replicas.

The VERY best plating on high quality jewelry and watches is 20 microns. This is usually a top plating over 10k gold fill. It is commonly known as a 20 year plating. Companies like Baume and Mercier, Tissot, and Hamilton plate their gold plate their watches to 10 microns. The typical, high quality mass produced plate on watches like Seiko is 5 to 7 microns. I'm not challenging your assertion that you have a high quality plate on your Josh Sub, just that any plated watch produced in the black in China doesn't have to do anything more than look good on delivery. What would be the risk to a supplier of watch cases or bracelets, three degrees of separation removed from the sale of a dealer claiming 5 microns of plating, in plating to 3 microns or 2? The answer is zero. The fact is that for the most part, gold plate on Chinese watches is poor and unpredictable.

Wrap...Crap Dont trust a thing in dealer descriptions when it comes to gold. The web of suppliers these guys tap into changes daily as do the parts suppliers for the assemblers...that's right...assemblers, not factories. Most replicas are assembled in mom and pop operations in the basements and garages all over China. Very few replicas are factory produced. When it comes to gold, there is zero quality control. The best rule to follow is to wear a gold plated watch very infrequently. There are certain replicas that earned good reputations for the color and durabilty of gold plate but, because the supply of parts is so variable, there's no guarantee you'll get a piece of the same quality. I don't think anyone here really knows what "wrapped" means. I dare anyone to display a watch where they wrapped something akin to gold leaf on a watch. Wrapped is a marketing term and does not describe an actual process. Gold plating is cheap and easy when done to 2-3 mls thickness....and what are you going to do two years from now when sweat has discolored your gold plate? I have had plated replicas brown from oxidation of the brass base matal just sitting in the box. I own a rose gold FA Jones and so far, so good on the gold plate....but I wear it about 6 hours a week.

I got my 2836 sub from the house of Womart. 6 months ago it was $119. Now stocks change almost daily with these guys, but this Submariner is terrific. Great lume, deep rehaut, good pearl and bezel insert, perfect 2.5X on the cyclops, the bracelet is very good....I either got lucky or Paul has one o the best Sub bang for buck values out there.

Wow Rob. That decorated Illinois RR is simple beautiful. Maybe I wsted a trip into the city. We may need to talk! What kind of running accuracy do you get on these after a complete overhaul? I assume they are 18,000 BPH movements?

Is Seiko's "Lumibrite" really just Superluminova? I have an Orange Monster and another Seiko Diver that will light up a room after lights out. They have by far the most luminosity of any watch I own.

God,...I'm so depressed....time to smoke a Dubey!!!

OOOhhhhhh. Some of the Waltham's I looked at were sweet! Here are some shots of the Hamilton from the original web ad It actually ran OK, about +90 sec/day with thr regulator at full retard. Like I said....accuracy crazed. The watch was absolutely mint. Inscribed service dates inside the caseback were 1934, 1962, 1984. So Cool! The 992 is one of my holy grail movements.

I guess far enough that you can wear one on the wrist...and that Omega is making hundred's of thousands of them, and someone with a new credit card can afford the $1700 it takes to own one. I do have an obsession with mechanical accuracy. The Co-Axial's blow me away. Quartz...ehhh...big deal...totally different animal. Comparing a quartz watch to a mechanical is like comparing a drag racer to an Olympic sprinter. The fact that the drag racer does a much better job of getting from point A to point B, it doesn't detract at all from my ability to marvel at the physical perfection and technique of a highly trained and tuned athlete.

Oh please, don't raise them on my account!!!!! These guys at Precision are a downtown Philadelphia establishment. The fact is, there are NO high end watch repair people in this area. These guys are fantastic artisans...no debate there...but they know that for high end restoration and repair, they are literally the only game in town. The other means of watch restoration and repair in Pennsylvania is the state prison system. Most jewelers who take your watches with a professional promise of high quality work and care, and take your hundreds of dollars, ship them off the the state prisons in central Pennsylvania where watchmaking and restoration programs are part of the available curricula. The watches get serviced at prison rates. I'm not impuning the quality, being a little skeptical of the system. Precision tore down my Dad's GP High Frequency Gyromatic 3 years ago, did a case and dial restoration, cleaning and adjustment and even manufactured a few parts they couldnt obtain for $350. The watch is a functional chronometer today at +-3 sec/day. They do remarkable work.

They rival quartz in accuracy. The entire Omega line is switching over to the Co-Axial escapement in the next several years. It will be another revolutionary step. The standard pallet arm will be a thing of the past in 10 years.

I was talking specifically about the George Daniel's Co-Axial movement in the Omega watch line, and about +- 5 sec/day performance. This is what I expect to get when I pay more. I have had a genuine SMP Chronograph Chronometer for a year and just had it re-adjusted and the results are, on both a winder and on my wrist, +- 1 sec/day. It's not unusual for me to check the watch at week's end and find it dead on. I have never found it outside of 3 seconds off per week since the tune up. I challenge any ETA replica to come up to that level of accuracy. The Co-Axials are just as dead on if not more so. I meticulously adjusted the ETA 2836 in my Submariner and it performs reasonably well...but not at that level consistantly. A watchwinder actually plays more havoc with it's ability to keep chronometer grade time than when it's on my wrist. For most people, this is a level of accuracy that isn't worth it. That's a completely valid point of view.

Well, I'm certainly not normal when it comes to how I treat my watches. I don't own a banger and when I see people working on their car engines with their good watches on, I cringe. My watches are treated like jewelry so service is usually benign. Is this 1K Breuget service factory authorized or is it your favorite watchsmith having to replace parts? How often? I don't know too many Breuget owners, (2) but this has not been their experience. Anyway, ...as I said...very little of this makes practical sense. I just bought a c.1909 Hamilton Railroad Pocket Watch with the iconic 992 movement in 10K filled gold, 20 micron 18k gold plate in running condition for $295. Guess where it is now???? At Precision Watch Repair in Philadelphia getting a complete tear down, cleaning, oiling and regulating to return it to chronometer-like specs for.......$325!!!!! Am I happy that I'm going to own a nearly 100 year old running serviced chronometer dispite it costing $600+?? You bet! I cant wait to hack that sucker and watch it keep perfect time.

A ground breaking escapement technology in the Omega Co Axial escapement or the rock solid chronometer performance of a 3135 movement isn't worth $2000-$4000? You cant get that reliability and accuracy in a replica movement no matter how obsessively you attempt to adjust it. The goods just aren't there.

I couldn't agree more. I just get kinda bristly at the notion that several thousand dollars invested in a genuine mechnical timepiece is folly. You do get something more than bragging rights for that kind of money but....I'm not going to challenge anyone's perception that genuine watches are not a cost effective way of acquiring good timepieces. $200,000....$2,000,000....now that's another catagory but that's not what's being debated here. I respect replica lovers. I'm one too.

It's a dead link on the home page too. I hope it's a mistake!

I'll split the catagories differently. 4 most accurate replicas available 1. Tag Heuer Link Chrono 2. Latest Generation Omega PO 3. IWC GST Chrono 4. Latest generation Omega SMP Chrono. 4 most beautiful replicas available 1. Vacheron Malte Chronograph 2. FA Jones Rose Gold 3. Chronoswiss Classic regulator 4. A Lang and Sohne Flyback Chrono cream dial. 4 Replicas I would love other's to think I actually owned 1. Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch 2. Rolex TT Submariner 3. Rolex TT Datejust white dial stick markers 4. Patek Philippe Chronograph

Wow!!!! Scary....and detailed. I'd get into the witness protection program!

I want to make a quick point for thoe who are arguing that there is a grey zone where genuine quality in certain brands is on a par with serviced mechanical replicas and there is little to choose between them. I agree your basic Hamilton or Accutron ETA powered watch is little better than a fully serviced, water resistance tested "ETA factory produced but non ETA certified" movement powered replica when it comes to keeping accurate time reliably. But there are still light years of difference in both the availibility of service and the quality of materials. The cheapest Accutron Chronograph I had on my wrist was still way ahead in terms of fit, finish and feel over the best chronograph replica I ever wore, and I had a legitimate company warranty behind it. Mechanical watches, genuine or replica, are not a practical purchase to begin with. Anyone arguing the practicality of collecting one kind of mechanical watch over another is jousting with windmills. This is still the elephant in the living room...a technological fact that almost killed them off thirty years ago. The mechanical watch industry is a homage driven luxury based marketplace (switching to this marketing saved the Swiss watch industry's ass!)....something it was not 50 years ago. If you wanted an accurate watch in 1957, you spent $250 on a Girard Perregaux and that was a practical purchase. if you wanted an accurate watch in 1977, you bought a $25 quartz Seiko and that was a practical purchase. For those arguing buying a $2000 genuine mechanical is a crazy act when you can get a reliable replica for $250 and have it serviced for $175 and essentially have the same thing....one can argue the rep guy is nuts too because none of this, replica or genuine mechanical watch patronage, is practical in light of affordable lights out accutrate quartz watches. We are all buying an impractical technology. We do it because we love and are facinated by the micromechanicals and the beauty of horologic art. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. Casting stones at the wisdom of someone who is a patron of this art in another tax bracket because he doesn't see the value in investing in the work you like to collect seems silly. It's all good....and it's all impractical. My son's dime store "Timon and Pumba" Lion King watch keeps better time than mechanicals I have that I've paid hundreds for. It's not about accuracy of timekeeping. It's not about practicality It's about passion.

Buying a genuine is an extension of the same passion that drives me to buy replicas. I love watches and my passion is more than skin deep. My replica collection included some of the state of the copy art as it exixts today and I loved and appreciated them for what they were, amazing and intriguing copies of some of the best looking watches available today for a small fraction of the price. But lets be frank here. Replicas are what they are. Amazing as they might be, they still, as a previous poster stated, have little horological value in the real world. This isn't to say they do not have enough value in the minds of collectors to provide a satisfying experience, they do. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford genuines of modest cost and so...I buy them. The experience of owning one is different...but it still satisfies the same hunger. I love hot dogs and I love a dinner in a 4 star restaurant. I wonder how many of the "I would never buy a $3000 watch. Give me 15 replicas instead." crowd would actually stick to that mantra if they had the opportunity to acquire a high horology piece without impacting their lifestyle significantly. Sure, luxury items are overpriced. Is a Corvette really worth $60,000??? That doesn't mean driving and owning one doesnt get my blood pumping. When I look at the movement in my ML Masterpiece, with a loupe mind you, and see the incredible level of detail, my heart skips a beat.....sort of like it did when my replica GT showed up. I'm am in no way dancing and shaking my ass singing "All you can afford is a replica...nayh...nayh....nayh!" I love replica watches still. They will continue to be a part of my watch collection....just not a major part of the money invested.

Funny, there must be some common brain pathways. I just turned my sights on the Aerodyn Chrono and it is a very sexy watch. I found one for an amazing price on collectorstime.com but quite frankly, I'm at a loss to explain how they sell this watch for $2300 when the MSRP is over $5000 and the best price I can find elsewhere is $3700. As for some of the other comments, I stated that replicas are still a remarkable value. I have not jumped ship or joined the "all fakes are crap" crowd. Yes, I'm fortunate that my wife and I can afford some luxuries but I'm in no way impuining the wisdom of collectors who would rather spend their thousands on many reps than on one genuine. I bought upwards of 25 replicas over the years using that MO. What I found was that, after aquiring 3-4 nice genuines, they were what I wore most of the time and that the reps were gathering dust. The reason I still have the FA Jones and Submariner copy is that I wear them. My wife thinks the FA is beautiful and she actually talked me out of selling it. I can't say enough about Maurice Lacroix as a watch line. They are a blossoming major player in the mechanical watch game. The ML Masterpiece Grande Guichet has a reworked 2892 as it's caliber. It is decorated, has a polished Glucydur balance, balance spring and balance [censored], blued screws, Nivaflex mainspring and Nivarox balance spring and is adjusted to 5 positions (although ML did not submit this +- 1 sec/day watch line for COSC certification). The bezel and crown insert are solid 18K rose gold. The dial is solid silver. I got this $3995 MSRP watch for $2300 at 2000watches.com. The price was remarkable. And yes, I thought the perfect-clones posting of that abomination of a watch was something of a joke in the light of recent events and discussions. I guess they will sell some and, judgements about the aesthetics of the watch aside, that's remarkable. I'd like to meet the people who would send $2000 to a dark hole in China for a diamond studded watch knowing nothing about the quality or appearance.

Short answer...yes the capacitors die ater a while...but they are replaceable at a semi reasonable cost. Here's a link. http://www.qualitywatchrepair.com/seiko_ki...CFRSJgQodqmXofA