epspi

now are these the same 2836 gmt modified movements (swiss or not) that are expressly not recommended by zig?

Has anyone purchased one of these 57s and could post some pics? Very hard to tell the quality of the brown hobnail dial from his pics. Pleeeeeease

Exactly!

easy for you guys to say, but for those of us who have no hope of getting a 28a, i guess we pray someday this re-release will be repped.

is this from chinatown nyc? there is this obsession there with selling stuff with open casebacks, even when closed casebacks are necessary.

FIXED! Thanks for all the help, guys. Replaced entire balance from a spare 6497

i also just broke the hairspring on the same movement (new Asian) this week, and I understand it may be more convenient to replace the entire balance (which runs USD 75 maybe). not sure if this requires more or less skill than the previously suggested fix.

I chose the Black Seal as my first PAM because of the thickness. Was going to go with DSN, but figured >$400 was too much to dish out for a watch I hadn't seen, so I took a trip down to Chinatown and looked around.

Chinatown Observations

PAMs seem to be losing popularity here, or are simply being kept underneath. I didn't think I looked particularly suspicious (although I was in business clothes coming from work), and yet still in several cases the salespeople would look me up and down before declaring that they have no PAMs. The 183 was almost impossible to find; much more popular was the 292 all-black "Ceramic." Two salespersons claimed they could fetch a Black Seal (183) but that it was $180 (which would make it 6 times the price of an average Chinatown watch); I didn't wait to look, since most of the Chinatown salespeople didn't know what I was talking about when I described for them something that doesn't look like the 111. Only two places had the 183 (both H, and they looked to be sourced from exactly the same place). Both wanted $90, neither would go for $50 (but I'm not very good at bargaining). I took one for $70

I think $70 is not bad for something that seems to have the right dimensions (I crudely measured it to be 45mmx11mm, even though it seems fatter than it should), no outright errors, and a seemingly-functional Asian 6497 with swan neck / dagger. As you can see in the below pics, here are some of the obvious problems:

• cannon pin too short, sandwich dial doesn't have enough of a gap, lume blows, face text is gray (should be white or gray?)
  
• no AR, who knows what the crystal is, crown stem doesn't stick out at all (should it?)
  
• movement / bridges are dirty, bad stickers (evidently by a child or someone with epilepsy)
  

What do you guys think?

Maybe a thicker band would make the watch look thinner. Maybe one of those black calf ones with the orange stitching

Heavy lens distortion at wide angles

Pin too short, sandwich not thick enough, font color too gray?

Lume is really bad

Not sure if the crown should stick out farther

Seems to be not bad for the price

This is just sloppy

I'd EITHER get the DSN or the cheaper Asian one. Not the expensive one in the middle... DSN's hold their value well--and you get what you pay for in terms of quality--particularly the quality of his dials and super lume. The argument for the cheaper one is since you're new--you'll find out if you even like this model, without sinking too much cash into it. Either way, you can always sell--and try something else.

I'm sure you considered this, but the 111 is sort of the classic PAM. It's thicker than the 183 and has a bit more presence... Also, if you want an Automatic--the 104 is a great starter one. DSN has the best out-of-the box one...

Good luck.

RSM

That's very helpful, RSM, thanks! Principally I love that the 183 is only 11mm thick (as my watch now is maybe 6mm). Will have to see see if that works, and then maybe go for something thicker; 104 looks awesome ... will have to try. I would pull the trigger if DSN had 183G.

First of all, thank you all VERY much for this incredibly informative forum! I'm lucky to be able to learn from everyone's hard work.

I'm going to take the plunge on my first PAM, and I think it ought to be a Radiomir 183. Here are the options I'm looking at, descending in price:

1. DSN 183H in the low $400s. Somehow he's got no 183g. Comes with some features/mods:

(i) fixed pin, (ii) sapphire with AR, (iii) superlumed dial, hands, (iv) "swiss" dagger swan neck movement, (v) second hand seems to be correct size, (vi) buckle with the logo

2. Trusty 183G or 183H for $328 with "Swiss". I guess this has sapphire without AR, perhaps crappy strap, and no pin fix (can anytime tell if one is necessary?)

3. Trusty 183G for $168, 183H for $148 both with "Asian" movements. These seem to be the best prices I can find on decent-looking 183s.

Questions: (other than "which one of the above should i go for?")

1. Does anyone recommend any dealers over Trusty for the 183, whether on price or quality? I see Puretime is out of stock on the 183H.

2. Is DSN's price roughly competitive for the quality of his 183H? I understand some people see better dials from other dealers, while others are just cheaper. Puretime claims to offer 183H Asian + those mods for $258.

3. Given that this is my first PAM, does it make sense to dish out ~2x for the DSN? okay, maybe that's one only I can answer :-)

Any advice is definitely appreciated!

~epspi