Bossart

UK customs are about as rep-friendly as it gets. Over 40 watches here and never a problem. However, they're rather backed up at the moment - UK customs clearance seems to be taking anything from 5 to 7 working days at present just due to volume of incoming parcels. Don't worry - you'll have your watch soon, I'm sure

In my experience if using EMS from China invariably the watch arrives in approx 5 to 10 days. Often when the dealer sends you the tracking number it has not actually been sent yet. Maybe a few days later than you think they send. It then often takes an amazing time IN China going from production or storage depot to the export point of that country.

Once out of China it fairly zips along, then reaches UK. It can sit a few days at this end waiting for "customs clearance" but should be on Parcelforce UK tracking system by then. It also sometimes says "held by Customs". This does not mean held by customs, but awaiting customs clearance, which normally is given - but it can take 3 days. Then Parcelforce tracking will follow it clearly each day till delivery.

I'm sure you will receive it - as someone else says - be patient and take a few pills!!!

John

I have the Rose Gold Jaeger LeCoultre Tourbillon and it has been superb. Good looker and excellent timekeeper. Can't fault it.

Not had this model before, but I had had a few fly-back day setting reps. All have failed with the flyback mechanism. Whilst the movement may or may not be a reasonable one, the usual rep poor assembly and lubrication doesn't bode well for flybacks. I don't touch them now.

The watch looks OK, though personally the 14mm depth would put me off. It seems too clunky for my wrist anyway.

Selling a watch for that kind of money with crap "in the packet" photographs?

To my mind that has to be total [censored]! And off Ebay?

For that kind of money - I'll go to Patek themselves to buy it - no way from some guy on Ebay!!!

I'm with Bossart - Smaller, for me, is almost always better. It's so easy to make a hockey puck stuck on the wrist look silly.

But, to each their own.

Absolutely - I should have said that too - and no offence intended

As I collect only "classic" watches (I do not include Rolex, Pams etc) most are under 40mm anyway. The only two larger at 43mm are a Jaquet Dros and a Maurice Lacroix. Usually 35mm to 39mm is the norm.

Suits me as I have a smallish wrist - and I have no love of "lumps" of generally black faced steel oversize watches as I find them both ostentatious and slightly ludicrous.

Classic examples under 40mm I enjoy wearing -

It's just a pity the rep makers didn't put some effort in to these various makes in comparison to the ubiquitos Rolex.

The most recent ones that are nice to wear -

First is a quartz low price but nice watch of surprising quality -

The second a very stylish Sterling Silver hand wind 17 jewel J&T -

Ok I understand that the genuine watch manufacturers are up in arms against rep watches, but I sometimes have to ask myself - why?

Do they actually lose sales as a result of reps being sold?

I would think not as the guy who buys a $60-$200 replica Patek simply isn't normally going to be one of Pateks direct customers - is he?

At this price nobody seriously thinks they've bought the genuine article anyway - and any deception is so transparent as to be meaningless. I would think they should be tacitly pleased that the rep guys think enough of their watch to copy it - marketing & advertising the brand name on the cheap I'd say!

The employment in China manufacture of these watches is vast and without it these people would suffer much more as a result of shutdown.

To my mind the decline in genuine top maker sales is recent and much more the result of the western world's financial decline which fuels the perception that maybe these top watches really don't offer ANY vestige of value for money and they are maybe way overpriced these days.

Super technical kit has always had initial development costs - but after a while the prices come down and down - NOT so with these watches - they just go UP and UP. Surely profiteering?

As someone else said it's the middle range "top quality" watches like Rolex that could suffer in these circumstances, but the top 5% earners in the world will always be the true customer of the "super watch" manufacturer - always - and regardless of any recession. They don't have recession!

What these top makers are losing are the noobie rich, the wannabes and lets face it, with these BIG watches with bling etc etc this has been an added value market that they have gone after bigtime - BUT - it's not their true business - and ultimately it demeans their top products and their top customers. A top classic watch/timepiece repeat customer does not like to be aligned with some nobody who buys a Rolex - that's ultimately bad for business.

Maybe they should think on this before declaring all out war that they simply cannot win.

A guy, call him Pete knew little about watches but liked good quality design. He saw a Jaquet Droz Grande Seconde watch - it was a rep - not exactly like the real deal, but certainly had a good resemblance. He buys it because he is fascinated by it's design and look. He loved it so much he decided to learn all about that company and their products. Eventually he went to a pre-owned watch sale and made it his business to purchase that actual model - it cost $6200. He loved it so much and realised it was actually an investment.

Pete now has 9 classic watches, from Patek Phillipe, Jaquet Droz to Jaeger LeCoultre to Audemar Piguet - value somewhere around $180,000 - he keeps their papers, documentation and boxes in the same cabinet as his stocks and bonds, bank account details, investments etc.

Pete is a now a known repeat customer to some of the most prestigeous brands - he gets invitations for their newest launches etc.

Why? - because he bought a cheap classic replica watch.

The boss has the luxury of knowing your salary. He sees a Rolex one day a Patek Tourbillon the next, a Cartier etc etc. IF he bothers to look he will probably assume these are fakes anyway - salary + Patek = not possible.

So he then thinks, "What an [censored], trying to be something he's not maybe - I wonder if he does this in my time!- that is coming across as a counterfeit sort of guy and he's representing MY company".

I might just FIRE HIM!

Moral - get some decent Gens for work and wear the fakey stuff at other times.

Meeting some right Know-it-alls today and tomorrow - so let's see what they make of THIS......

And I won't mention or refer to it at all.........but I just bet they notice it...... :D

Posted this elsewhere recently - posted here for those not in other forums.

Simply meant as an intro to this model.

Recently received this Cartier Ballon Blue to add to my Cartier collection.

Maybe not a perfect 1 to 1, but all in all a pretty close effort - so I'm pretty pleased (the small differences are almost trivial IMO).

It's actually a very nice watch to wear, being really quite heavy the weight distribution allows it to cling to the wrist very neatly, so you don't need to have the bracelet too tight.

The case is quite well made and has a nice polished finish.

The bracelet has a really nice two tone highly polished quality and the link pins are an easy push fit, unlike some of the Cartier rep bracelets which are screwed and subject to screw head and thread problems.

The date window detail is excellent and the date is very clear and well defined with good quality date/ring print. It also sits bang in the middle of the window as it should.

The dial numerals are well defined and stand out well in good relief and look quality.

The hands are very deep blue and look almost black - only showing really blue on the wrist photograph with the light at an angle.

The crystal feels very heavy, solid to tap and warm smooth to the touch and is domed perfectly in tune with the case shape.

The nicely shaped steel back is engraved Cartier Ballon Blue, water resistant with a CC number and Swiss Made.

It's a good size at 38mm (and looks bigger) by about 10mm depth (front and back are domed) and looks very slim on the wrist.

As it's quartz I don't expect any accuracy issues and so far it's kept pretty much perfect time. Adjusting hands and date - both actions are very smooth and feel good. Not ratchety like some.

Sourced for me on his recent Asian trip - by Narikaa.

I entirely agree with the OP - as a n00b myself I thought that getting a "cheap copy" would be pretty easy, but it is entirely the opposite.

All I wanted was a replica Bell and Ross BR03 but now I'm finding myself tempted by Omegas and Panerais and IWCs and Rolexes...

But there are so many questions!!

Which movement? An ETA? A 7750? An Asian or a Swiss version?....................I don't really care. But Asians are a damned sight cheaper!

Is the movement reliable? How long before it might break? Is it fixable?............Most work OK with the odd crap one....so what's new?

Which dealer should I buy from? People use first names to refer to them but what are their forum or website names? and what sites do they sell from?.....any of the regular Dealers listed here are not too bad. That's why they're listed.

Will it get seized by customs if I order from outside the EU, where I am based?......Never happened to me here in UK

How much is it? ...........I rarely spend much on any rep

Is it a good price for the specification?........to my mind specification is a rare word in reps

Is the specification good enough to look genuine to all but avid watch collectors/fans?..........Pretty much always

Will it need a service straight away?............Service?

Will my local watch shops touch it if I take it in?.........Authorised Dealers - NO.......independent watchmakers - no problem usually - it's business.

Will it need to be sent away for modification to make it truer to the original / look nicer? (Anti-Reflective'd? / re-lumed?).......Never done it

Would I be able to do anything to it myself or would that just be asking for trouble?........Why not? if your handy, then have a go -

What on earth do all the acronyms used on the forum mean??...............Gawd knows!

I sort of filled in the answers on the "questionaire" above...

But seriously......

I think you're in danger of over-complicating things before you start.

Read the Noob advisory - relax - pick a Dealer and check his stuff - don't go mad on price or Swiss ETA, Quality, Specification as these are relative here in the rep world. Pick a watch model you like - Ask if anyone has advice on that particular model on a new thread - read the replies - check availability via the listed Dealers - decide on the cash you want to spend (maybe get an Asian not so fantastic a likeness one just to get the feel of what you get for your money) - order the thing - wait a few days before even looking for tracking data - once you do check - don't read the crap about awaiting Customs or delayed by Customs or other crap - then out of the blue your little parcel arrives and hey presto - you've got a rep watch - hopefully working. Check it out - see if it was worth the paltry sum you spent - maybe not quite the quality you wanted? - then you've learned something. Or maybe it's brilliant ...........Welcome to the world of Reps.

You can see I don't take the rep business too seriously - I'm not one who must have the 1 to 1 replication of a particular brand. Don't get me wrong, some guys here take it VERY seriously - but I honestly think that comes maybe with experience and NOT on your first rep purchase.

Chill out, relax, take it easy and start small...........above all have fun and don't break the bank and you'll enjoy it.

No problems wih bracelets but my wrist is allergic to some leather straps. SC for example. I wear one and my whole wrist swell up.

YES - you are definitely on to something - but which leather straps??

I've been looking for something to wear that would swell whatever it's on... :D

Then I can stop taking that damned Viagra stuff...!!!

Now you are just showing off Boss. I miss mine. And isn't it fun to be just walking along all of a sudden and yell 'Numerus Clausus' at the top of your lungs in public just to see what they do?

YES.......I love it.................and in broad Scots too!!!!... :D

Rolex - Rolex - Rolex........All these Rolex's - seems everybody has one or two or even three!

Where's the individuality anymore?

I'm wearing this JD for the whole weekend - so there.....! :p

I've got this amazing gadget that I always carry when using the car.

It's about 2" long by 1" across and has 3 buttons on it.

I press one and the car doors unlock. It also automatically sets the steering wheel, seats, mirrors etc. to my personal settings.

I get in and stick this plastic unit into the dash and start the car - amazing.

I stop the car, remove the unit and as I walk away I press another button and the car doors lock.

I can even press the third button and the boot (trunk) opens and lifts automatically (without unlocking the doors).

And I can do all this whilst wearing ANY damned watch! A pair of them come as standard equipment with the car ... :D

Well I took off the bracelet and fitted a nice soft leather german strap.

Suddenly the Cartier looks more elegant....in fact more genuine all together.....I like it.

And here's the gen model...

Amazing what a little black leather can do....LOL...

Robbie buys gens, so don't worry about finding the rep, it probably doesn't exist

I have a Calatrava rep with seconds @6. And it is actually pretty close to the 5119, the updated version of the 3119.

Seconds @6 - correct for both 5119 (and 3119)

Elongated numerals - correct for 5119

36mm - correct for 5119 (3119 is 33mm)

Crystal back - correct for 5119 (3119 solid)

I show the genuine model 5119 here -

And two images of this rep -

I show this basically to illustrate the main rep/gen difference - the small seconds dial is INSET in the rep - which is incorrect to either the 3119 or the 5119.

Also the crown on the rep is slightly thicker.

Hardly noticeable differences really unless pointed out!

To me for simplicity, elegance and sheer style, the gen Patek is very hard to beat.

I have never seen a 5120 rep either.

Liked this little Cartier Tank Francaise as the face on it seemed to be very close to the real deal. Once I got it I checked and it is.

It's quartz so no crap movement assembly issues, the dial is right with the correct gilloche pattern, hands are OK (blued but black to look at), date window is fine, case is good, back is correct, bracelet OK. Though I'll probably ditch the bracelet in favour of a simple black strap.

Pretty good for under $70 and 6 day delivery from Malaysia - Surely this is what rep buying is all about.

Well I'm happy....

I'd say that 99.9% of ALL rep owners are trying to do just that. Its far more elegant to pretend otherwise, though, isn't it?

That said, I have no reps.

I have both reps and gens.

I rarely if ever discuss my watches (gen or rep) with anyone (unless an avid collector of watches friend). It is basically for my vicarious pleasure.

No-one ever outside my watch circle sees them anyway and if they do they've never said anything. Friends know I'm "into watches", but rarely talk about it.

Let's face it unless you're into watches who looks at your wrist anyway and who cares.

I'm not unique either in the fact that I have both reps and gens of certain classic watches (Patek Philippe, Jaeger LeCoultre and also Jaquet Droz). Some of my watch collector friends have both reps and gens of certain watches - it's all part of collecting.

The reps were bought first - I liked them and I made it my business over the years to then aquire the real deal.

And whilst I can afford to do it (I mostly, but not always, purchase pre-owned classics) - I'll continue to do it.

But it is a private and personal collection and hobby - for me - and I have no interest in "posing" or fooling anyone with reps - I don't have to.

i cant seem to find any info on whether ioffer.com is a legit site or not, does anybody have any info on them or can steer me in a direction where i can get an ENGRAVED panerai deployant buckle, polished and brushed? i've emailed strap and buckle dealers and all they seem to have are the basic deployant buckles. thanks for the help guys!

I have used ioffer web site quite a few times without major problems.

As said, however, there are good sellers and bad sellers - check the feedback - it is VERY relevent.

Only had one problem a year ago where the seller did not actually have the watch in they said they had (and never had) and I had forgotten in my eagerness to check his feedback (which was NOT good) and was my fault.

However after complainiing to ioffer admin and having paid using escrow - my cash was refunded quite quickly and another black mark and negative feedback was placed against the seller.

So the moral of the story - use feedback - that's what it's there for...

I personally love these conversions, even though I have to be careful size-wise having a relatively small wrist.

Here is a favourite of mine, both for the fact that it was originally pocket watch based but also as it's a 7/8 day movement.

Had a trawl round those Dealers I know, but could not come up with that particular model.

I have a model (with seconds @6) which I though at one time had numerals that were too elongated and thin - UNTIL I saw a new genuine model 2 weeks ago in Glasgow - the numerals were exactly the same!

Seems to be that there are an awful lot of versions of the Calatrava around.

These here are genuine -

And this is mine (2 pics) - with alternative strap/bracelet -

I wish you luck.

Great to hear and see that some others are "into" the classics too. I was getting worried!

Love your choice of gen VC - simple and elegant and when you have it, you suddenly realise how poor the reps really are.

I also have some classic gens - most pre-owned but one new - which are - 2 x Jaquet Droz WG & YG two different models, Patek Philippe Calatrava (YG), Blancpain 3Osec WG, Girard Perregaux.

I basically purchase reps initially and IF I like the feeling of a particular design, I trawl round (sometimes for months (years!)), looking firstly for pre-owned genuine models and also visit auctions. It never fails to impress though how feeling of the the gen blows away the rep....especially classic watches as opposed to the more populist Rolex, Omega styles etc.

The result is that my rep collection is decreasing and my gen classic watch collection increases - slower, but really as investment pieces.

But I DO like your VC - wear it well!

The new Bvlgari Diagono Calibre 303 Chronograph.

Never really liked Bvlgari watches but this is a beauty! Would love to see this repped. Beautiful shaped and great size 42mm. Only problem would be the transparent caseback. Have seen some great Bvlgari reps so maybe they will rep this too? I really hope so as I would definitely get one if it is done as well as the super-reps!

Here is a link to this watch replica which may be in stock - and this version has a solid back by the way.

Also Mark at Timeshops is an excellent guy to deal with and prompt - my last watch came via him without incident and was perfect.

http://www.timeshops.net/BV7404_-_BVLGARI_...h_2325-5779.htm

Just be aware that Chinese New Year starts around 26th Feb? so if ordering do it NOW, or wait till after 1st week in Feb.

Best of luck.

John