Jack1024

Dragging this thread to the top - how big can you go with the dial size on the ST case? 

I've got a 29mm sub dial I'd like to use and I'm wondering if this case will work.

Yes.... this is the WM9 dial.

Jack

Hi Everybody!

Like a few others, I received my TW Sub yesterday from BK. I'd like to offer my thoughts and pictures for your consideration.

First of all the subject... the Rolex 16610 Submariner, lovingly hand assembled and modded by BK. BK sourced this item after the demise of WM9, I suspect with a lot of prodding and poking around the rep industry.

In an email with me he says he found this watch by "asking every supplier/wholesaler" he knew. He went on to say that the "thing is the wholesalers are connected to one another. You just have to tell them what you want and get them to believe in you whatever you get will sell." Seems like a whole lot of work and time, and BK is to be commended for his efforts to bring a watch like this to the rep community.

At first glance, the first thing I am struck with is just the sheer attention to detail. I have a hard time believing that the WM9 watch was really any better than this one. Sure a few details are different or incorrect from the gen, but this is essentially identical to a $6K genuine watch! BK agrees and says "wm9 is not any better if the watch has the wm9 dial and hands." The dial print is simply amazing.

I actually wonder if the cost for BK to produce this watch isn't actually higher than what it takes Rolex to produce one, just that we don't have the watch equivalent of DeBeers in the middle. The finish is impeccable... and totally gen in quality.

BK seems especially proud of the crystal saying, "It's the best rep crystal I have seen. It looks practically identical to get in terms of the top edge rounding. Also the cyclop mag. Pretty damn dead on I'd say."

I personally have not seen one finer on any sub rep. Even the lovely Clark's isn't as good. The mag is truly spot-on and very well highlights BK's own custom date overlay.

The often debated rehaut on this watch is absolutely identical to the gen watch. Even the print is perfect, looking essentially identical, and lining up exactly with 'R's on the left and 'X's on the right hitting the 5 minute marks exactly.

BK massages the crown guards on this one. I have to tell you I think they look great. The crown is pretty wonderful too, and I wonder what all the fuss is about the position of it. It just seems perfect. I couldn't see how it can get any higher in the watch.

The bracelet, while not technically accurate as it doesn't have hollow links is perfectly brushed and adds a great deal to the overall feel and weight of the watch. Possibly it adds a bit too much as this piece is kind of weighty for a 40mm watch. Nobody is going to say this one 'just doesn't feel heavy enough to be real.'

The oft maligned SELs fit perfectly here. I tried another bracelet with hollow links, but the fit just was too disappointing to leave it on.

Removing the braclet exposes exactly what you would expect to see for markings and construction. Like everything else with this one, it seems spot on.

The clasp is amazingly accurate. See along the bottom of the coronet where it isn't stamped as deeply? Well I have not seen that detail on ANY other Rolex rep, it exists in the gen, and here only on BK's sub.

I'm not really a fan of the pearl, although BK's epoxy helps a lot. It looks better in person than this lousy photo, but I still think watchmaterial is in my future, with their sapphire lensed dot.

The rest of the bezel is spot on, and the numbers and markings are accurate and beautiful, as is it's position in the ring.

Speaking of bezel, this one is constructed like the gen, complete with the click wire and ring. It also turns exactly like the gen, although BK says "I'm most frustrated with the bezel assembly. Like wm9, I still have to spend a lot of time tuning the fit of the bezel assembly e.g. adjust the click wire, clean up debris on the bezel click gears and mill the inner part of the back of the insert. Man, you guys just don't know how hard and how much work goes into properly assembling this (and also wm9) watch." Image credit to BK.

I certainly appreciate his efforts, as this thing (after 100 turns or so) feels solid and tight, exactly like the gen LV sub I owned previously.

The best thing about buying a rep from BK is the simple fact that they are flawlessly assembled. His attention to detail is superb and this watch is no exception. With every rep purchase, I end up tweaking, tuning and essentially rebuilding until I am happy enough with it to wear. Not this one, it keeps essentially perfect time out of the box, has no apparent defects. It simply just works, although I did have to remove this ugly sticker...

I'd like to give a special thanks to BK for some of the quotes in this review and wish him the best of luck in his new offering.

Thanks for reading!

Add a nice new watch tool kit, a toolbox of parts from various broken reps, mix in a little (okay a lot, LOL) of wine over the holiday, and you get this.. a total frankenstein!!

Enjoy and have a good laugh!!

Jack

Actually this is the best no-date rep I've seen of the current generation. No it won't pass for a gen at the AD, but certainly all the details are there. (non-sels, drilled lugs, nice dial, etc.)

Nice work.

J

Yeah.. a serious gateway drug for me too. After 4 rep DSSDs each with their own 'issues' I'm putting $$s away for the real deal. I never ever thought I'd see myself considering $8-9k for a wristwatch, but I am going to own one of these soon.

Can't see myself dumping all my reps in the process though...just the DSSDs.

Jack

Kermit? More like vomit.

Sorry... I just can't get my eyes around the new LV. I'm good with the large-case black sub, but that one is just hideous.

It is funny though how the rep makers had the black sub first. I'd be interested to see how close the genuine rolex 'rep' of the fantasy model measures up to the real 'gen' made by the rep makers.

Jack

Never been much of a Daytona guy... flipped the one I did have, but I just love this one almost as much as Astrograph's girl.

J

Not to worry, Josh will take care of you. You will have a new bracelet in the mail.

This looks great Lani, I have a couple coming now, so hopefully they will turn out as good as yours.

How is the lume for this pearl?

Jack

I've just ordered two.. one for mine, (an older v3-4) and one for my sons (which came with a badly mis-marked bezel - and orlex between the lugs..LOL)

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

J

The one I took out was rather soft, the outside seems to be ceramic but I don't know about the other half of the insert..

the replacement seems to be very hard, and if the sand paper is too coarse it will not shave off any material.. it just gets shinny, whatever it is ..it's quite hard.

So about 100 grit wet (metal) sand paper? How much did you end up shaving off?

Jack

and the sand paper will make a difference, the hard plastic just glides along too rough a surface.. wet sand paper for metal is the best for this one.. it is not like your common insert.. for those of you who have one in hand.. you will know what I mean..

So this bezel is plastic, not ceramic? Is that true with the one you took out?

Jack

Hi Lani,

You mention different sand-paper. Ceramic is pretty hard stuff.

How did the sanding go? How long did it take? How much material did you end up taking off of of the back?

I have an earlier version 'ultimate'

Jack

I will take two...

Jack

Lugs Schmugs!!

I own 5 genuine Rollies as well and many of you prob know more technical stats than I could imagine. I just love owning them and knowing if this Obamany completely tanks, I could eat fillet for a year with them before salsbury steak. But I have allowed myself to go to the darkside with this Deep Sea version based on my bro Lani's recommendation. I actually also ordered a new Rolex clone 3135 Sub as well basically because Rex wanted one as well to discect and compare with a genuine Rolex 3135 movement and do a write up. As soon as I got my sub I sold it because I didn't want to become attached to it/ And I already own two gens. But the steel looked and felt the same as that on my Gen LV. Better weight too in comparison with a BK sub I sold for a friend a couple months back. Scary really. Anyhow I will be keeping the Rolex Clone Deepsea and I am dying to get it. This is the first package I have ever ordered from Andrew that has taken more than a week and it's killing me!!!!

Thanks to Lani for the recommendation, again!!

Hey Tanya,

You'll have to keep me posted on how it looks compared to the one I bought from you and Rex last week. I'm already getting itchy for this one, although I am delighted with this one after a quick spitshine.

Jack

Hi Lani,

How is the timekeeping so far? I wouldn't expect that the new movement is any different than the typical asain clone, but I would hope that it was properly assembled, lubricated and regulated.

Anything to report?

J

Looks like this will be my 4th DSSD.... I can't seem to get enough of it.

Looks gen to me, but you gotta crack it open and look.

Anyone reached dismantling the SSD's helium valve? It looks functional and seems to be screwed to the case... just wanted to add a gasket and silicone grease to make it waterproof.

Is there any place to source a like gen specs aftermarket one?

Thanks in advance for your time!

Unlike the (Not-So)Deepsea, the SSD4k's HE valve works the correct way and is o-ringed. I have had 2 of these and neither of them leak at all.

These things are tough. The latest one I have easily maxed out the machine with just a little Vaseline on the seals. YMMV but I suspect yours will be the same.

J

the gen goes for around 5k ..and has no QC issues..

AC/L

If you know where to find a gen for $5k of this one, let me know, I'll be right over!

(The last one I looked at was priced at $9250, although they were willing to 'talk' about it)

Yno matter how good the QC is.. remember these are reps.. and it's good to have a dealer that can replace the defects.. a watchsmith that can do minor repairs (ones that are rep friendly) .. and a little knowledge (which you can learn here) ie. loose hands.. regulating... tools are now available at "Watch Bitz" here in the dealers section for very good prices.

these Asian Rolex clones have been keeping great time for me and feel great through the crown.. just setting the time and date etc. .. not like the cheaper Asian movements .. and sweep hand is really smooth..

At times it comes down to the luck of the draw.. we have all been there.. at one time or another.. but these reps just keep getting better..

you cannot get a 80 usd rep and expect it to last long..

I totally understand that this is a rep... I just want one that works without 3 round trip tickets back to the dealer. I really enjoy doing fixups and mods, but I can't stand stuff that is just flat broken.

This model isn't $80 but closer to $400. I'm on my 3rd DSSD (of various flavors) and they all have had pretty major issues that really aren't fixable without new (rep) parts. My DSSD now is a franken of the 3 different ones. The clasp from the first, (the second and third ones either had bad welds or mis-drilled clasps) and the bezel from the 3rd, because it was the only one that lined up even close. I've even figured out a way to epoxy the HE valve from the outside, because all of them had that issue.

Interestingly all of them run just fine (a 21j and two ETA clones) and are within 10 seconds a day accurate, so it isn't the movements that are the problem.

I've actually had my best luck with the $80 reps. Not sure why that is... but as daily beaters they have been awesome. I have a 4 year old 21j exp2 (FREE - sent to me along with a trade as a perk) that I just can't kill. It is starting to look like one of those 'vintagized' classics...

J

Hi Lani,

Some variations of these had pretty serious quality gotchas... anything like that with this one? I don't mind intrinsic detail flaws nearly as much as having to repair a 'new' watch.

This one is gorgeous. How long does the lume hang on? The color sure looks great!

J

Who said that? Feel free to shoot and post all you want.....no complaints here!

None here either! Only that my girlfriend tends to get lucky after I see a few of these pics...LOL

Seadwellers, whether old or new, simply kick a$$.