Josetann

Grand Seiko SBGM025

Testing the water resistance of my 16710:

Not trying to show off, but since we're posting pics of our watches in cars, thought I'd give it a go.

First pic is the standard "make sure the logo on the steering wheel is in the shot".

This next one shows the quality of the professionally installed* aftermarket steering wheel cover.

*May or may not have been professionally installed, it was there when I bought the car.

I think it's fine for a buyer to ask for more information and to negotiate on the price.

I also think it's fine for a seller to refuse both.

When I sell stuff (usually on Gumtree/Craigslist), I have a simple rule. First with the cash gets it. If we agree on a price, but someone else shows up with cash in hand...guess who gets it? Now, I'll make exceptions; if I'm selling a car, it's Saturday, and it'll be Monday before you can get the check from the bank, I'll gladly hold it if you give me a check for a deposit.

When I'm buying, I try to make sure we're at least in the same ballpark. In the previous example, if someone was selling an item for $700 and the highest I'd go was $350, I wouldn't waste their time. If they dropped it to $500, I might shoot a message to the effect of "If you drop the price again let me know, I might be interested in it." If it was listed for, say, $400, I would probably ask any questions I had. Then I'd either make an offer if it was close, or not bother if it was too far off.

Just what I'd do, not saying it's right or wrong.

GMT Master II 16710. On wrist:

Off wrist:

I don't believe that anyone will or should put pressure on another member to "upgrade" I am a VIP (30.00 USD /year) member and I have never felt the slightest hint of pressure from anyone to upgrade. I believe that one should contribute to the level that they feel comfortable with and can afford. I also believe that if you utilize the sales forum to make a particularly good sale, or you are feeling flush, a donation would be very much appreciated, but certanly not mandatory. To me it's sort of like contributing to your particular church. Some folks give 1.00 dollar others give 100.00 Dollars, quite often depending on the individuals philosophy and financial situation. The 5.00 Donation is just as big and just as important from the fellow who makes minimum wage, as the 100.00 Dollar donation by a Lawyer or banker. All are important whether large or small.

Arthur

Well, two things have been said about me just in this thread:

A member who states he is more into gens. now and only visits here twice a year seems to have a problem with the cost of keeping this forum online..

I can't believe that those who are into GENS (meaning they have the funds koz they could AFFORD da GENS) are the ones complaining about supporting RWG....this place.........I say: "AMEN to Lani!"

I take it that these members have a problem with me not donating to the site since I "obviously" have the funds. I'd say that's in the realm of pressuring people to donate. I explained why it wasn't worth it to me at this point in time in the other thread. It has nothing to do with our bank account (I'm sure many here have much larger accounts than I ever will). Rather, I'm not getting that much value from the forum at this time (haven't bought a rep since the new site, don't visit often, etc.). Again, not saying it's not a great forum, that no one should bother upgrading their membership, etc. Just saying that not every person who uses the forum should feel obligated to pony up $30/yr. If we had to do that for every forum that we found the least bit useful/entertaining/etc., it'd add up pretty quickly. Then again...if every user on my forum ponied up $30/yr...hey that's not a bad idea!

I'm not trying to fan any flames, I'll try to bow out of this discussion now. Let's see how long that lasts

Are you sure about that? Maybe not everyone holds their watch to their forehead saying look at me look at me...

Could just be the paranoia from all the watch collecting, or lack of the drugs you were trying to pick up.

My guess is however, if he was wearing that bad of a rep, Rolex no less, he wouldn't know a Panerai from a pan of ziti.

Probably a subconscious thing. I've gotten more remarks about a watch I'm wearing shortly after I started wearing it than any other time, including the one I've had the past three years. While I'm definitely not trying to flaunt it, obviously I'm doing something different to attract attention to my new piece. That, or the watches are extra shiny the first week or two then suddenly get a dull finish.

Josetann.. you can end your wondering and guessing (because that is what your doing .. or following docs lead) what to do, and what not to do in one phrase.. "shtick around some".. you cannot gauge what is going on in one day.. look at the members who over time.. post and give to all.. look at the members who whine and take.. after time you may see a pattern.. takers and givers..and some that find a balance.

Jose.. we tried ads.. we have tried everything in your absence.. don['t you think that if it would of worked we would need to ask for membership donations??

Ok...how about this?

A lot of non-paying members are feeling alienated/annoyed/whatever (I'm not sure of the correct term to use) because they're not contributing. Why not simply annoy them by making them look at ads instead? Six of one, half dozen of the other. I must note that I do not know how many users actually feel alienated due to this issue. From reading the other 10+ page thread, looks like it might be a big problem.

If you don't care what the free-loaders think (the "takers"), then who cares if they get [censored] off by a few ads?

Paying members wouldn't see the ads. So the members who you believe matter the most (and I'm not arguing with you) won't be affected by this at all. It'd also be one more incentive to become a paying member; in addition to extra forums and the prestige of being a paying member, no more "Click the Monkey!" banner ads.

I'm not sure what kinds of ads could be run though, I have a feeling many ad networks would not want to be associated with RWG. Perhaps the dealers here could buy banner-space to advertise for their sites? I dunno.

This subject has been hashed out up, down and sideways. those who contribute will continue to do so, those who don't,won't. It's just like every organization I have ever been affiliated with, about 10% or less of the members do ALL the work, for that they also get 100% of the criticism if things go wrong, but Damn little credit if everything goes well.

My feelings about this forum are: If you come on the forum, read, research, ask questions, and from that avoid falling for a scam watch on a scammer site, and thus save several hundred dollars , is that not worth the price of admission? If you read the reviews here, and decide that based on a review, you will not buy a particular watch, is that not worth the price of admission? If you have a source for selling your surplus watches, or the one that "you just had to have" only to find out that when you received it, it just didn't speak to you, is that not worth the price of admission.Personally, I believe these are all valid reasons to become a paying, contributing member. Now, if you are just superficially curious about Reps, and you are just making a one time visit to get a tiny smattering of knowledge, I wouldn't expect you to have to pay.I'm sure some folks find this and other rep forums, lurk for a while and either find what they are looking for "Who has the perfect Submariner" or realize that this isn't the place for them, and move on. To those, I wish them Godspeed and hope you find what you are seeking. But for those who are here to stay, participation comes with a price.

I have pretty much opersated with this addage my whole adult life, "nothing worth having is free"

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

I definitely see your point and agree. However, should you feel pressured to join? Is donating $30/yr enough, or will you be made to feel guilty for "only" donating $30 when you saved hundreds? If so, then by that logic I need to go make a huge donation to a particular forum that really helped us out this year, so much so that it'll make us go broke (in essence, it's a site that helped my wife find extra work). I'd probably actually pay for that particular forum, except that it's a Delphi forum and the one running the forum would get nada (the company hosting the forum would get all the $$$).

Well since you only check in twice a year.. (in your own words).. you would not know what some do for all.. reviewers spend hours sometimes day's researching.. shooting pics.. answering PM's..and NO ONE ignores any questions or issues.. ther have been some that .. come here play us for all it's worth and leave.. there are others who make this home..

but no one.. absolutely no one is "left behind".. I'm registered at the gen foras also... very different atmosphere there.. I was pretty much ignored and made fun of at a gen forum where I posted a rare gen and asked for some help in sourcing a part.. guess where I sourced that part??? .. here.. and posted the pics of the finished piece on the otha place..

There is more knowledge here regarding gen movements and members like Jojo probably have a wider collection of Vintage gens than most on the Rolex Forums..

And there is one thing that no other place on the net can replicate.. that is the Heart of RWG.. and that is the Community .. whom the members make up.. All members..Ironic isn't it.. we are a replica form but our hearts are more genuine than the gen foras.. BAR NONE

so what I suggest before your fingers say another word.. join us for awhile.. and see for yourself what this community is about.. otherwise you may jump to conclusions over members who choose to make donations an issue.

AC/Lani

But why are members making donations an issue? Are the donating members upset that not everyone donates? Do they prefer a closed forum where you must pay to play? I mean, aren't there some parts of this forum that are only available to paying members? If so, then that seems fair to me. Someone comes by, joins the forum, sees how useful it is to them, pays a fee then gets access to the whole forum. If someone come by and just wants to look around a bit, that's fine too. I have no problem with paying members having a separate section where they can talk about more advanced topics and look at naked girls (or whatever you guys do ). If I want to participate, I'll pony up. If I'm happy with the "lowly" free sections, then that should be fine too.

Ok, I'm replying out of order but...I didn't say people were definitely ignoring posts made by non-supporters. Just that I was afraid this would happen if it hadn't already started. I don't disagree that many spend a lot of time here, and that they help out many others. Now...I don't really take advantage of this, so should I feel obligated to pay for it? I mean, I've never taken apart a movement, haven't redone any CGs (pretty much, when I got a rep I either wore it as-is or it didn't get worn), etc. I haven't bought a rep since the new forum, and wasn't asked for donations on the old (who knows if I would have donated then, as I did use the info available to try to find a decent rep). I actually just popped back in recently because I'd noticed some reps being sold in St. Kitts and wanted to make a post about it (seems many people already knew, but it was new to me...and yes I did search before I posted!). Did ask an opinion on a ladies watch, didn't get a lot of responses but I didn't expect to (the list of must-haves my wife ruled out almost every ladies watch out there, especially with wanting a small size and an automatic).

I will admit I'd feel more comfortable posting here than on a gen forum. Who knows, maybe I'll become more active, will need this forum more, and will become a paying member. Just don't pressure me into doing so (no, I'm not saying anyone's pressuring me to), because if I felt forced to, I'm the kind of person who'd just leave instead (just ask the Rolex dealer in Tortola, I started to get upset so I just left instead of arguing; cost him a sale).

I figure it best to start another thread to the "Free or Not", .. going on and added to by some that question RWG's validity in have to seek donations to keep the forum solvent.

A member who states he is more into gens. now and only visits here twice a year seems to have a problem with the cost of keeping this forum online..

I think you took what I said out of context. I merely stated that we don't know the true costs of keeping this site up, and that it was likely more than a cheap plan that most of us could get from a webhost (because RWG needs to use an overseas provider, and may have other costs due to the nature of what goes on here).

To these members I say.. "Why not start your own Forum?"

I've started more than one, and still have one very popular one. All free. I did put ads up, and if anyone complained, oh well.

Actually, that's an idea. Just display ads to the "free" members. Anyone who donates gets the ads removed. Now you're making money off all the members in one way or another.

I'll sum up my feelings. A person is allowed to come to the forum, register, and participate without paying a penny. They should not feel bad if they don't donate. If RWG is that hard up for money that free-loaders can't be tolerated, then make all members pay for a membership to participate (or contribute in other ways). I would hope this forum doesn't go pay-only, but that's not my decision. I'd live.

Sure, $30/yr isn't going to break the bank for most here. But what if we had to donate $30/yr to every forum we found as useful? That'd add up to a big chunk of change pretty quickly. And on a personal note...while I "only" buy gens now, we're talking two total (maybe a third if we have a third kid, but that'd be the limit). I have a feeling many here have paid much more on their ever-growing rep collections (I was able to fill up an eight-watch winder plus some in short time before I had to decide on just one).

I'm worried what this'll do to the forum. People will start (or probably have been doing so for a while) to not help out any non-donators. Things will be said...people will leave...etc. Come on guys, I'm gonna need you all in 20-30 years. Can't we all get along for another 2-3 decades?

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Is that who RWG is using? Did some detective work, looks like this "might" be the main provider: http://www.worldstream.nl/

Now, someone else might have a server with them, and be renting space on it to RWG. I have no idea.

Also, I double-checked and IPB no longer offers a lifetime license (good thing I already have mine). That $150 is the initial fee and includes six months of updates. Additional six month increments can be purchased for $25.

Just askin'...

Greg, admin of RWG1.1, has posted several times regarding the finances of that board. Sort of like a "state-of-the-state" thread. We know about how much money it takes to run the board, and it's not very much. That board has a sales section and dealers, so it has all the same risks. The software doesn't seem to be as sophisticated as this software is, but that's just software, a one-time expense.

Have finances been openly discussed here? Can someone point me to a thread?

Crap, had a huge post made, then it crapped out. Oh well.

Anyways, does anyone know what webhost the other site used? Was it a domestic host? If so then yeah it'd be cheaper, but he got lucky the site didn't get taken down.

Not sure what forum software the site uses here. If it's a pay version, then most likely there's either a high lifetime license, or a yearly license that can be purchased. You can probably keep using the forum even after the year's up, but if you want updates, gotta pony up the cash. Trust me, you don't want to be running an out of date forum with known security exploits.

Then there's the question of whether the admin does all the upkeep himself, or hires someone else to do it. It costs me nothing to update my forum software as I do it myself. I also know what I charge others.

I agree it would be nice to see exactly how much it costs to run the site, especially if members are being asked for donations. Now if money is raised by people purchasing upgraded memberships (which include special privileges such as increased PM space, special forums, etc.) then I'd say it's none of our concern.

How much bandwidth does rwgforum.com use in a month?

Not sure, but I think I know where you may be going with this.

I've seen similar pleas on other sites. I've offered to host them gratis, and I've never been taken up on my offer. There's one site that would ask for donations, and I know exactly how much the guy was paying for hosting fees (I was his webhost at the time). In essence, donations more than exceeded any out-of-pocket expenses the site had.

RWG's situation may be different though. Overseas webhosts who'll thumb their nose at any takedown request often charge a pretty penny. I'd be happy to host the site, if it wasn't for the whole trademark infringement issue. Even if I'd ignore takedown requests, my upstream provider most definitely would not, and they'd simply shut the whole server down; shoot first and ask questions later. So, I don't know who their webhost is, but since they haven't been shutdown yet, I have to assume they're paying more than if it was your run-of-the-mill legit site.

Then there's the whole issue of the domain name itself. Even if the site's hosted elsewhere, domains often are taken over. Not sure if RWG is doing anything special to protect the domain, what that costs, etc.

Well, I hope it's free and continues to be so. If for no other reason than for me to check in a couple times a year or so.

I've moved on to gens, but still love to look at what's out there. Still have my old collection from the days of the "old" RWG. Kinda miss being able to change out watches every so often. But, I'm gonna be wearing the same watch for the next 20-30 years (unless our third child's a boy, then it's time to buy another!). Hope RWG is still there when I'm ready to get back in the rep game (or at least, I can check the forum and see that everyone's moving to some other site, lots can happen in 2-3 decades).

So...sorry I don't contribute money or reviews. Don't use the site enough to warrant $30/yr or whatever. No new reps coming in to review. Oh well.

Just an update. Ordered the watch yesterday from Darryl at Swiss Luxury (swissluxury.com) Exact model number is 179174 blrj, specs are as written above. Total was $4560 plus another $25 for the wire fee. Still less than the $4800+ we were quoted in Tortola.

Fedex just delivered it today. Heart sank when there was no hologram. Quick search showed that Rolex no longer uses the holograms, so that's a relief. Gotta find out how to make absolutely sure it's a gen, but looks fine to me. Worst I could find online about the company was that the owner was rude (I didn't experience this) and that someone received a watch that had some parts swapped from another (still genuine rolex parts though). A- rating by the BBB (went direct to the BBB site).

So, any tell-tale signs that would immediately let me know it's gen without breaking it open? Really like my GMT in that regard, it has the correct hand stack AND the date changes with the hour hand not the GMT hand; since no rep does that I didn't have to dig any further.

I saw reps openly displayed on several islands in the Southern Caribbean, Antigua, St Lucia and Barbados for sure. Like you, I wasn't watch shopping, so couldn't say what the quality was. Probably aren't going to find the "Super reps" like you get from our dealers, but you never know.

If you are buying while on a cruise ship, I don't see a problem, unless you were bringing back 20 watches! More than likely, getting a few of them back wouldn't pose a problem, as every cruise we have been on, customs coming back has been pretty much a "wave through" situation. Lots of folks buy genuines down there and wear them back through customs, not that it would matter.I really believe that customs at least in San Juan PR and Galveston, TX where we have sailed from are more interested in countraband drugs, fruits and food products, etc. There were always a few USDA and DEA guys with dogs walking around the customs line.Snag a porter, give him your customs declaration, and baggage, he will get you through customs and outside the terminal in a flash.

Arthur

Funny, I've been to all those places but didn't notice any reps for sale out in the open. Definitely no signs at the front of the store.

I do have to admit that my wife's the one that brought it to my attention. She told me where to go, what side of the street it was on, and that there was a sign saying they were selling replicas. She's been to the other islands too though, and hadn't seen them either. Just seemed odd to me to see them out in the open, so cheap, and not in China.

Have to agree on customs in port. Never seen anyone's luggage get inspected (though I'm sure it happens). I even declared some extra alcohol we were bringing back (2.75 liters over our allowance I think), just waved us on through.

For a classic, small format watch that meets these criteria, I would also suggest looking at some of the Cartier line. They have a lot of quartz ones, but the Ballon Bleu mid-sized auto is nice, classic, elegant and has long-lasting styling that can be updated with strap selection for variety. The Pasha C's are also quite elegant.

A very fun quest!!

I looked, but didn't see any automatic movements in the ladies (small) size. All the mid-size watches she's looked at have been too big for her (according to her; I think a Panerai would look fine on her but that's just me). Even the $20k+ ones were quartz (way outta our price range).

Did some shopping in St. Kitts (lot of cruise ships stop there, which is how we got there). Saw two stores openly selling replicas. One even had a sign outside for Rolex look-a-likes (or something to that effect). I didn't look too long (shopping for a gen for my wife), but did ask how much a ladies datejust would run. Price was $90, and it was a true automatic (shook it and the second hand started sweeping). You could buy two and get the third free. Another store didn't have a sign outside, but they were displayed in the back next to the cash register (didn't inquire about price). Could get other brands too, I know I saw a quartz Rado model.

As far as customs goes, I remember reading a while back that you could bring a certain number back with no issues (it specifically addressed replicas). If anyone has current official info, that'd be great.

Would be interested to hear if anyone here has actually purchased one of these reps and how the quality was.

Wife's going to get a new watch for Christmas (actually it's for our daughter, but my wife's going to hold on to it until she's older). Since it's going to be passed down, it has to be a gen.

The one she likes best so far is a Rolex Ladies Datejust with blue dial, roman numerals, fluted white-gold bezel, and jubilee bracelet. Found one in Tortola for a bit over $4800, probably should have just got that one.

Since she's getting it for our daughter (this is her first Christmas), it needs to be this year's design. For the Datejust mentioned above, that'd mean it'd have to have the new style clasp on the bracelet (believe that came out in 2007). Needs to be new, or at least unworn (might be a bit flexible on that).

Here's what I need help on. We either need to get the best deal we can on that specific watch, or find something else that she'd like just as much. Here's the must-have specs:

- Small, like the Ladies Datejust though she also tried on a Tag Heuer Carerra and a Baume Mercier (forgot model) that seemed to be a good size too.

- Automatic.

- Second hand (she's a nurse so this is a must for an every-day watch).

- No two-tone, just stainless steel (though white gold is ok, which the Datejust has)

- Can't be too flashy (a few diamonds on the face may be ok, a diamond bezel might be pushing it a bit). Just a nice classy watch that can be worn for all occasions (from delivering babies to a nice formal night on a cruise).

Those are the absolute must-haves before she'd even consider a watch. Several salespeople have tried to convince her a quartz model is the way to go (since it's hard to find a small ladies automatic), but she insists on an automatic (that's my girl!).

Thanks!

Thanks for all the advice, I'll follow up on it once I have some free time (baby's not due till June, but there's sooooo much to do). Second baby should be easier, I mean we already have all the supplies right? What if it's another boy? I guess I could just wear a watch on each arm.

I have the solution! Buy her a Cartier Santos Dumont - that way, if she decides she doesn't like it, YOU can still wear it. (Its not too big and not too small)

I like that thinking! Bought a Yachtmaster mid-size for my wife, she didn't like it...so I wear it on occassion. She still wears her blue-dial skagen (no idea what model it is or anything, it's just a small watch with date, quartz movement, and blue dial).

Oh, I got her a Cartier something-or-other, she didn't like it, and now no one wears it. This particular model's not exactly something a man could wear. Least I don't think so...but knowing guys these days...lol!

Ok, I know there are deals out there. I've seen reports of new Submariners under $3,000 (seemed to be around Christmastime, perhaps an end-of-year dumping to get the numbers up)? I want the best deal on a Submariner.

Used is ok, but prefer the no-holes case, since that's a recent design.

New is preferred.

A 2006 model, used or new, would be worth a little more $$$ to me, since that'll be the year my son's born. But, I do plan on teaching him to get good deals, so he'd understand if it was a few years older. He'd probably boast about how his dad got a $4,500 watch for only $X,XXX (hopefully that's a low number).

Now, if somehow someone found a great deal on a Sea-Dweller instead, I'd consider that. A GMT-Master II, I'd consider that too. An LV for retail and no waiting list? I'll list my car on ebay right now.

Speaking of which, I wonder how hard it'd be to buy a normal Submariner, and get the maxidial and green bezel insert to make it a Franken LV? Of course I'd prefer both to be oem, but the dial's all that's necessary (aftermarket bezel inserts aren't too bad). I know I couldn't send it to Rolex to be serviced, but I probably wouldn't do that anyways. I'd be too afraid they'd replace the dial (even if it was stock), or the hands, or any number of other things, which would reduce the sentimental value of the watch somehow. So I'll have to find a local watchmaker to take care of it.

BTW, thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hi folks,

I stumbled across this site and wanted to share with you. It claims the watches are gens but the prices just seem out of wack or they are "hot". If they're reps, some look pretty nice:

http://www.rolwatches.com/index.htm

No credit cards or pp. Red flag #1. Prices too good to be true, red flag #2. Can't find any users testimonials via Google...not exactly good or bad. If it helps, here's the domain registrant's address:

Kirill Serov rolwatches@yahoo.com +7.0955260393

NA

ul Belodorojnaya dom 5 k. 33

Moscow,NW,RU 110053

Also, domain was created 1/17/2006. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a new business, but it's definitely a brand spankin' new website. Personally, I wouldn't buy unless someone who's reputable posts about a good transaction they had with them.

With my luck, it'd be a guy at the counter, and he'd be happy to oblige my wife.