babola

Yup, that's the one...if you compare the sloping at the edge to the one on your avatar for example, you'll notice how much wider it is on the rep 005 case back. This makes the engraving around the edge a little more 'compressed' towards the middle, hard to notice if you don't have it side by side with another case back for comparison. That said, the one you posted a pic of isn't too bad, the slope on mine was much more pronounced. cheers, b

That's a tough part to source as a spare, for sure. It is made of a flat top disc attached to a little pin that inserts into the large chrono hand 'hole'. I believe the best option would be to email Davidsen, or buy one of those dead A7750 that pop up on sale boards for few dollars. Also if you ever get one, make sure you don't try to polish the top, the whole pin is made of nickel-plated brass and you'll most definitely expose it by polishing the concentric brushed finish at the top. It happened to me, first time I tried this on my LaBomba. Live and learn... The genuine Pam ones are polished, rep ones are circular-brushed and there's not much you can do about it unless you'd be willing to re-plate it again. Hope this makes any sense... cheers, b

Crickey Crockey!!! - that sure is one of a kind, exceptionally well put together - enjoy!

Ha ha, anytime mate...those new T-hands could use a bit of a review, eh? Thanks mate, you're right about the spring effect when opening/closing - it's a big plus for sure! All things pros & cons being considered, this is THE S/S crown at this moment in time, well made and exudes quality, thanks Tourby once again! The new 'Palp' standard deep-dish crown offering comes close second IMO, but that's just me. cheers, b

Thanks for your kind words, guys...hope I haven't overdone the so-called "short" review

Thanks mate...mine ended up cut at 11.21mm in the end measured with digi-calipers. This however will greatly depend on the type and size of a crown tube, my guess is the finished stem will be of slightly different length for most people as the cases/tubes are all sorts out there. cheers, b

Well I guess was lucky enough to be selected by Tourby as one of the few testers of the new spring-loaded S/S T-48-SL crown. I’m sticking to my side of the deal as promised, hence this little pictorial review. This review pretty much complements the original great T-48-SL crown review done by ‘oncyte’ few days ago and adds few more thoughts and recommendations. First of all let me thank Tourby on this little gem, and his continuous perseverance and tenacity to make this little hobby of ours a better and more enjoyable experience for all of us. Anyway, off to the nitty-gritty stuff… The package arrived today, and was one of the most ‘comprehensive’ spare parts packages I’ve ever received from anyone, full stop. It not only consisted of the crown and the custom threaded 0.9mm crown stem , it came with new exceptionally well finished custom crown tube, and two stem extenders, one with 0.9mm and another with 1.2mm tap. The 1.2mm extender is redundant in this case, but the 0.9mm has a potential…more about this at the bottom of the review page in my closing notes. The package content Custom (hand-made) threaded 0.9mm crown stem, 0.9mm stem extender and 1.2mm stem extender: Comparison with the original T-48 S/S crown The two crowns for purpose of comparison – the original rigid-neck T-48 crown and the new T-48-SL spring-loaded crown are shown below. My original T-48 comes without the pronounced teeth bevel effect as observed on most of the T-48 and new T-48-SL crowns. The bevel is introduced by over-polishing the teeth surface by the crown maker. It appears there’s nothing much they can do about it, except maybe abstain from polishing the crowns altogether. Tourby has already talked about this ‘issue’ before so I’ll refrain from repeating that here. As you can see from the pic below, the new SL crown comes with slightly longer neck to accommodate a spring inside it: Here you can see the difference between the neck length as well as teeth finish. The pronounced teeth bevel on the T-48-SL crown on the right is quite noticeable on this side-by-side picture: On the picture below you can see the crown edge finish as well as the inner dish finish. The original T-48 came with brushed concentric circle finish, while the T-48-SL comes with almost mirror polished finish. Neither are as per gen specs, but they’re both very close. Most of the genuine crowns I’ve seen come with ‘almost’ polished dish finish, which is more like finely brushed finish with sunburst effect stemming from the middle of the dish towards the outside crown edge. This is minor and not an issue at all, if it bugs you you can always polish up the original T-48 dish or apply Dremel with 1000/1500 grit tip on the T-48-SL polished dish. The latter requires a little more skill, though. The depth of the dish on two crowns below is also different. The original T-48 dish comes with gen specs (0.5mm depth), while the new SL dish is 0.3mm. More on this and how it will affect you the installer, I’ll cover in a separate section below. Tourby already explained in other related threads why his maker had to resort to a shallower dish on spring-loaded crown, so I won’t be repeating this once again here. One other notable difference between the original T-48 and spring loaded one is that the crown edge is a tad thinner on the SL crown. The pic below also shows this very well. The Proof-of-concept parts (44mm S/S Luminor case and CG) When I first contacted Tourby, I offered to test this new crown on a case and CG combo that I believed the spring-loaded crown with shallower dish should provide the best fit. The case and CG used for this test are so called new-style Cartel. This is evident with the crown tube that sits a little higher, as well as new-style so-called oversized CG. The oversized CG comes with the bridge of lager radius then genuine, but CG lever of same length and size as the genuine and so called old-school Cartel one. This presents a little problem with the crowns of standard dish depth of .5mm – they simply require to be installed away from the case to make a tight connection with the tip of the lever. Most of the new Cartel reps from late 2008 onwards come with this type of oversized CG, and there’s not much you can do about it, apart some serious machining and modding of the CG feet, or lifting the crown away from the case. The former is a one-way-street and requires certain skill and tools, while the latter leaves you with an unsightly and unsatisfactory solution. Let me just note that Davidsen CGs don’t suffer from this illness but have other issues. Also, the so called ‘ultimate’ Pam reps coming from that “other’ Pam rep factory in Guangzhou Angus and Ruby used to source their reps from, don’t have the oversized CG issue, but once again, just as the CGs coming from Davidsen these are slightly “off” and require further refinishing touches to make them look and feel close to gen. Photo of my late-2008 Cartel case, which is also the current one is shown below. The crown tube allows for more o-ring seals to be inserted between the crown and the tube. The CG profile is shown below. Not a bad CG by any rep standards. New T-48-SL crown, as installed on the test case The following three photos show the crown and lever in three possible positions, closed and locked, winding position and fully extended in time setting position. It will take a few tries until you get the stem cut to the ‘right’ length. Please be careful here, as it’s very easy to overdo this part of a mod, from which there’s no way back if you do. Take it easy and start with about 2-3mm longer than you think the stem should be. This will give you good feel about the correct length you should eventually end up with. After all, you’re playing with a 20 Euro piece of metal rod here, the one that take quite a long time to re-thread from 1.2 to 0.9 tap by a watchmaker . The price may not be a big deal for you, but sourcing a replacement one from Tourby may take some time. Pictures speak for themselves. I don’t believe any additional commentary is required. The CG lever is in its original rep factory form, with the un-modified tip. The whole CG lever and crown setup projects quality, and very genuine feel. I owned a genuine 111E in the past and can still remember that distinctive genuine Panerai crown ‘push&click’ feeling. This crown is very much like that. Personal observations and conclusion My personal opinion is that this new crown is a step above any other rep and aftermarket PAM crowns we’ve been offered so far, excluding genuine ones. I will wholeheartedly recommend this crown to anyone who is looking to upgrade his or hers rep crown to get closer to that genuine look and feel. However, I also have reservations so please red below. Good points: - Finally a decent spring-loaded Pam crown that’s a step up from Davidsens or EL/Honpo rep SL crowns from the past - This crown, just as Palpatine (Palp) crown from 2006 helps alleviating the issue with newer style oversized Cartel CGs - Extra wide profile with the right teeth cut-out angle at the edges - Drop-in install into a standard Cartel rep CG tube Not so good points: - The shallower dish will ONLY fit the oversized cartel CGs without any modification. The genuine, JimmyFu, old-school rep CGs, LH etc CGs will require modification of the lever tip. I wouldn’t go there, but it’s ultimately your choice - Just like it was a problem with original T-48 crowns, the teeth on the T-48-SL crown are unnecessary over-polished and unnaturally bevelled when looking from left to right side of the teeth surface. It isn’t a great look, but it’s OK, but only so. On the other hand the Ti and the PVD T-48 crowns that haven’t undergone teeth polishing process by the crown maker are excellent, and very gen-like. I originally suggested to Tourby that his maker should forgo teeth polishing on S/S crowns altogether, and I still stick to that. IMO it is much easier (even for a non-modder types) to apply a little Cape Cod TLC on top of the teeth by yourself, if you’re after the polished look, then end up with over-polished and bevelled teeth, but that’s just me. Additional thoughts: This crown wasn't meant to be a ‘cure-all’ solution and isn't going to suit everyone. If you already own a decent T-48/T-60 or even one of the latest Palp crowns and you’re satisfied with look and feel…I’d say stick to your old crowns, no need to ‘upgrade’ The price at 30(crown)+20(custom 0.9mm stem)+10(Int delivery) = 60Euro is quite good, although could be made even more attractive by not having to pay 20Euro for a hand threaded stem. Tourby also agreed, and we may have a solution to this…however it will require a little modding on your side. More about this in the last section below. Possible solution to an unnecessary additional cost for a custom 0.9mm hand-threaded stem After I installed my crown, I started thinking about other ways of dealing with the 0.9mm tap requirement on the crown neck side. It is possible to source a so-called crown stem converters from places like esslinger.com and similar. In our case here, we could source an extended with inner tap(at the thicker part or the ‘head’) of 1.2mm to fit the standard 1.2mm 6497 stem, and outer tap of 0.9mm to fit inside the T-48-SL crown neck. These are dime a dozen, a few dollars if even so…and I remember Tourby mentioning of a possibility of supplying these with his crowns for free. However, due to very tight tolerances between the crown and the stem in respect to the length of a threaded part of a stem that goes inside the crown, further modding of the stem converter/extender will be required to fit. I do not have a a spare 1.2mm 6497 stem, nor the 1.2-to-0.9mm stem converter so couldn’t test my theory, and didn’t want to ‘play’ with the provided custom threaded 0.9mm 6497 stem and 0.9 extender as I didn’t want to potentially stuff up the existing setup along the way. This is still my plan, so I’m planning to place an order for a standard 6497 1.2mm stem, as well as one of the aforementioned 0.9/1.2 stem converters/extenders. I should update you on progress as soon as I receive these parts and get around next time to do some modding. The picture below shows my line of thought. I used Tourby’s 0.9 stem extender to pose as a 0.9mm-to-1.2mm stem converter/extender. The difference is only with the tap inside the thick part (the head)…the one on Tourby’s is 0.9mm, on the converter it’s 1.2mm. The problem with the converter is that its thick part is simply too long for this setup to work, however… Based on some of my initial measurements of both the crown neck, the stem and the clearance required between the two, the thick part of the converter could be cut-off by about 1/3 to 2/5 of its length (don't cut more than this as the thick part isn't threaded at the full length, just 2/3 of it actually), an the thin threaded part cut to allow 4-5 full screw revolutions when attaching the crown to it. This still needs to be confirmed and actually done, but I believe that’s it Also, if you’re about to try this by yourself, please DO NOT attempt to cut-off the thick part by pliers or wire cutters, the steel is still quite soft and by doing this you can squeeze the ‘head’ a little too much and deform the shape and threads on the ‘mouth’. I advise using a sanding or fine grinding method instead. Anyway, that all from me for now…if you’d like to add, comment, argue or anything else you desire…post in this thread or send me a PM. Cheers and thanks for your patience , babola

No worries mate, I'll give it a go on mine once it arrives. cheers, b

This length you mention varies between the cases, unfortunatelly. It mostly depends on type and size of the crown tube. Some tubes stick out from the case a little more, some are flush with the case making the crown 'sit' closer or further from the case. To an extent this can be managed by alternating a number of o-ring seals (and their thickness) installed between the crown and the tube, sometimes there isn't enough room to do that. By the way, have you tried shortening the stem on your T-48-SL so that it doesn't sit too close to the CG bridge when fully extended in time setting position? Would like to know if that worked, that's all. cheers, b

One of a kind 28A my friend - love it!

Thanks for the review, oncyte. The 'issue' with the crown sitting too close to the CG when in time setting position could be easily alleviated by shortening the stem by about 0.2-0.3mm. I've done exactly this on my 27A with the gen auto crown from Kruzer, the stem was just a tad too long and the crown was brushing against the CG when setting time. BTW, mine should be here anytime soon (it certainly takes long time for shipments from Europe to NZ ) , I will write a short review once I get around to mount it on one of my Pams. Thanks again, Tourby

Yes mate, H-series one is slightly closer to the gen in shape at the sloping part of the caseback at the edge. The absence of black paint like on yours is correct, these were never meant to be filled with paint as gens anyway...easy to remove though. Would love to see your photos, HT! b

You can see both old (G-series) and new (H-series) Logo casebacks here: G-series G0616/1000 caseback H-series H0016/1000 caseback The newer one (H-series) is slightly more closer to a gen, dimensions and finish wise. However, if you're going to split hairs the H-series logo caseback matches L-Swiss Made-L dial, not the L-Swiss-L. I have not seen yet rep 000/005 Logo dial in L-Swiss Made-L...maybe DSN has one on offer in its latest incarnation? cheers, b

Unfortunately there never was a close to 1:1 000/005 caseback made by either rep factories or DSN. After the incorrect EddieLee 005 caseback which was basically a 201/A Logo caseback, the very first one that appeared on the market in the late '05 on 000 and 005 models was a G0616/1000. Very nice but incorrect shape as it comes with highly raised flat area in the middle. This raised part is also smaller in diameter than manual Pam casebacks, very much like the casebacks found on auto Pams. DSN one appears to be made of a recycled tomato can sheet, it's so thin and low it ain't funny. I'd skip it as an option if I were you. I believe your best bet is a G0616/1000 caseback especially if the dial belongs to G-series and says L-Swiss-L, otherwise the newer cartel Hxxxx/1000 caseback. cheers, b

That's pretty awesome

Thanks for the photos mate, a little fat but not as bad as on DSN autos...those are bordering on hilarious. I'd say all in all not a bad look, nice re-work on the CG, it appears the CG isn't cartel kind but standard DSN CG with centered lever. So this case is the one that comes on his latest PAM040 from Jan 2010? thanks, b

Great result M, so it appears the original xtal either had an incorrect gasket, or Speedy didn't push the xtal press all the way down into the gasket this time around...either way, it looks

Very well done, indeed. I would just add that the FGD pre-A dials are bordering on matte black and charcoal, depending on the lighting and angle sometimes even on the dark grayish side, but this would be correct match to gen pre-A dials which weren't deep jet black in finish. The jet black finish came later in A-series, onwards. So is the case DSN's latest Ti one with cutouts between the lugs, do you know? He told me he now uses cartel cases for manual winds, so if that's correct than I can only say as it looks pretty good from this angle. Any side shots, especially lugs and CG? cheers, b

+1 Having been there and done that with my FGD Pre-A 001 dial, I can only concur. My intention was to apply a double coat of matte varnish to increase depth of the black color of the dial, instead the result was completely opposite. The dial lost the color sharpness, and at most angles projected as dark gray, even brownish. I wasn't happy with the result so I removed the varnish with white spirit, as Simon suggested. The result is much better, very very close to gen pre-A dial texture. These are the only two photos of my unfinished pre-A 001 that I have, as like many others I'm patiently awaiting Simon's pre-V/pre-A hands to materialize The dial has all the varnish removed and is mainly flat black, under extreme angle becomes slightly gray and textured. Sorry for bad photos... Compared to a gen pre-A 002: w0lf, as you could learn from my mistake I'd forgo the varnish in this situation, if I were you...but up to you bud! Or at least don't overdo it as I did, one swipe in single direction than another in opposite direction should be more than enough. cheers!

Judging by your avatar photo there's no doubt, mate

Hi Pete, I don't believe there were any 'rules' as such. What I've seen is basically a mish-mash of different CG and crown finishes when it comes to gen Pams. I will try to illustrate this in th etwo pictures below. As you can see the CGs are polished but the crowns are decidedly brushed in concentric circular finish. This is however not easily noticeable by the naked eye from the eye-wrist distance, so I wouldn't read too much into it. - PAM001 A-series - PAM111 E-series

Pete, as far as the 44mm case crowns go, I've seen both in the gen form - the polished ones and slightly brushed ones with a bit of a machined 'sunburst' type finish. The latter type you should easily notice if you go down to your AD and play with the crown on the current 111 or 005 etc. cheers, b

I see Pete beat me to it...ha, ha. He's also a much nicer guy than me