gbc

Indeed, as b16a2 said, here in the UK, consumers actually have much less rights in such matters. In some shops, they will honor mis-labeled goods as a goodwill gesture, but they are not actually legally obliged to do so. This is where being a retail worker can be a real kick in the nuts, (as well as a billion other reasons ) as customers think they have all these rights, like a shop having to honor an incorrect price label, and if it isn't honored, they'll "take you to Trading Standards !!!" ( ) I guess it's not their fault, as 'customer service' and 'good will' tends to go against actual trading standards guidelines, so as customers, folks can be used to getting their own way, when legally speaking, the business did not actually have to agree to their demands, but it is damned irritating to be on the other side of the counter, knowing that legally speaking, you are in the right, and the law is on your side, but the customer thinks they're in the right, and just won't be told... Be kind to retail workers, it might not be the most challenging of jobs, but it can, in it's own way, be difficult and unpleasant in a way many professional jobs rarely, if ever, are. I once saw a McTrainee being threatened with a beating by building contractors, simply because he couldn't take their order, because it was his first day, and he hadn't been trained yet, and just happened to be standing near a till (Never saw him working there again, the poor bugger...)

Agree with 100%. Honest mistakes do happen. Do on to others .... imagine if you were trying to sell your house & you made typo on the price & the potential buyer tried to ram it down your throat! Society is way too letigious this days!

As other posters pointed out correctly ... a price in the shopping window is an "invitation to treat" & subject to the acceptance of the seller at the cash register. I don't think this is bait & switch if they did not try to sell you something else or forced you to buy something else. That being said, I can undertsand how the OP felt bummed out!

For internet sales it would be different as in some cases the automated payment systen had already accepted/processed your payment. This happen with Dell when they mispriced some items. They honored the sale out of goodwill/PR but in reality the buyers had a binding contract.

Same thing for me when i received my new Tag Link - one spring loaded ball missing.

Could not find a replacement so i fabricated a non spring loaded one.

You might have some luck at a watchsmith tho

Go to a hobby/craft shop & find brass rods. Get the closes diameter & cut to the length you need.

Smooth out the ends by sanding them & friction fit into the hole where the ball was leaving about a 1mm sticking out.

Works fine.

The movement was advertised as having an ETA 2824-2

Its keeping incredible time; I dont have the right equipment to pop the caseback, but since it was from PT, I'm pretty sure it is as advertised. I'm assuming then that its actually 8 ticks per second...

The reason I asked this question is because I was looking at a Rolex which seemed to have no ticks at all (ie: perfectly smooth movement). Perhaps Rolex have more fluid movements than ETA (I think Rolex has inhouse movements - could be wrong), or perhaps it was just the poor lighting that made it seem that way...

The seconds hand in the Ingy are longer than that of most Rolexes. Longer hands will make the ticking more preceptible.

All so check the timing of your watch. You can do this by setting & comparing with your PC's clock.

See whether your watch is running slow over 3-5 day period.

Had UPO losing a min a day. After speeding it up to keep good time ... the sweep was smoother as it was ticking faster than before.

I believe one of the reasons reps went up in price over the last few years was the escalating cost of raw materials.

Steel, plastic, rubber etc are more than 60% off their historic highs.

We should be seeing cheaper reps but its all suppy vs demand.

If demands drop ... so should prices.

Only problem is that reps are cheaper substitutes in hard times.

As is the case with all products/services of questionable legality ... demand is usually recession proof!

ETA (clone) movement watches at about US$45-65.

Damn! For the prices we pay retail for reps ... we are getting screwed!

I got to agree with freddy here. You can buy fake cable but you'll never be sure that it is coming from the same factory/sub-contractor as the original. The cable can look exactly the same cosmetically but you will never know the actual metallurgy of the wire used. This would be the same as buying fake golf clubs. Unless they are willing to give you a free trial ... you'll never really know how they will preform in your system.

If you're on budget you might want to get some Chinese domestically branded high-end cable. They do have a thriving high-end segment that makes quality stuff.

Very informative and very encouraging also. After reading this thread, I have disassembled my A7750 (first time I have ever done that!) auto winding module so as to look for the culprit for the issues my watch is having (I have a thread on this at RG). I have found the reversing wheel is only erratically engaging the auto-wind gears, whereas the click is intact and working perfectly. One thing I noticed though that differs in my A7750 from what GBC has masterly described is that it only takes 2 to 3 complete turns of the rotor to complete one "AB cycle", as evidenced by the audible and visible click of the mainspring click.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, GBC!

Hi! AstroAvia,

I've been following your post on RG concerning your PDs.

I can understand your frustration.

I've posted a possible solution there that you wanna try.

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=34201&page=2

Thanks GBC,

A 2836-2 (probable clone) movement is exhibiting similar symptoms you describe in the A7750. Obviously different anatomy, but is the clickspring a likely defect in this situation as well?

The 2836-2 has a different anatomy so no one can say for sure without inspecting it.

Generally,the winding train on the 2836-2 is pretty hardy.

Does your watch keep good time & have healthy power reserve?

The 2836-2 has bi-drectional winding meaning it can wind CW & CCW.

It has 2 click wheels & the click is build into the wheel itself unlike the A7750 with an external click.

I would guess if it is click problem it might be due to the crown wheel ... which is different issue.

Very informative, thank you.

I haven't had any luck with ETA gears into asian 7750's. The ratchet gears always have too large a pivot for the A7750, so I will have to turn them down on the lathe.

I have also tried replacing the reversing click gear with an ETA, it doesn't fit either...

I have never noted any real problems with the reversing click spring that I couldn't fix, normally they are loose so I glue them in place, and if the tip of the spring doesnt' engage into the gear, I bend it to make it engage, besides this, they have been fine.

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

RG

Thank you. I have also learn much from you.

You are a great service to us all

For the ratchet wheel, you can also swap the pivots over as there are friction fitted to the rachet wheel.

Very informative post. Thanks! Do you find the substitution of gen ETA parts is consistent across all A7750 movements, or specific to each movement?

e.g. gen ETA ratchet gears always work, and gen ETA reversing gears NEVER work

OR

Gen ETA ratchet gears USUALLY work, and gen ETA reversing gears SOMETIMES (but not always) don't fit

Thanks for the effort and explanation.

I can't say for sure as per my post. There's a little trial & error involved & you settle on the arrangement that works for that particular watch.

I never had any problems with the swapping in the ratchet wheel personally.

So I'll go with "Gen ETA ratchet gears USUALLY work, and gen ETA reversing gears SOMETIMES (but not always) don't fit"

You can make mod Gen parts to fit if required as highlighted by The Zigmeister.

Most fit issues relate to the pivots that are marginally too large in the gen & they can be smoothed down by hand.

Previously posted this on RepGeek ... decided to share it here to.

Someone handed me a dodgy A7750 to fix. Taking the opportunity to share some pics on understanding common problems with the A7750 - Bad power reserve, Wildy spinning rotors & Stripped gears.

Please note that the A7750 being repaired is A7750 "Lite" in Pam Luminor. The 7750's chrono guts were excluded during manufacturer as the model doesn't actually use any of the functions. If your watch is a chrono it will look different as there will be more parts. The simplied layout will make understanding the issues easier tho.

1st pic shows the rachet gear (gold with 3 holes) at the upper most part of pic. This is the gear that commonly strips when you hand wind. The watch original rachet gear was stripped tho the owner said he didn't hand wind ... in fact he didn't even know his watch could be hand wound. The gear you see in the pic is replacement gen ETA. Yes! You can swap gen parts in your A7750 ... well sort of. I'll explain later.

The 2nd pic shows the reduction wheel (gold & spoked) & reversing wheel (silver) being put back into place just above the center of the movement. These together with the ratchet wheel are the heart of the power train. The silver reversing wheel interfaces with the spining rotor & inertia is transfered & stored by the mainspring.

The gold reduction wheel is also a gen ETA part. There was nothing wrong with the Asian part but I find the A7750 winds smoother & quieter with these gen parts. I also has had a gen reversing wheel but it could not fit as the pivots were marginally bigger so the original Asian was maintained. So gen parts are swappable but its very touch & go with the A7750.

Sticky reversing wheels are often blamed for stripped rachet gears but personally i think the main culprit in many a A7750 is the click for the reversing gear. The 3rd pic proved my suspicions right as the watch appears to have a click that was damaged & too short. Damaged/missing clicks are very common on A7750 & is the source of many complaints we see here & the scourge of all rep chrono owners!

Damaged click is on the right & replacement gen ETA is on the left (longer). The click is really fragile & one of the hardest parts to handle on the 7750 as it needs to be friction fitted onto the winding bridge.

So why is this small metal shard so important? From the 4th pic you can see the mainspring click. Its function to hold mainspring from unwinding & basically forms the basis of your watch's power reserve. The click travels 4-5 notches clockwise from A to B afterwhich it falls back to A & locks the mainspring. This AB cycle repeats itself many times during the day when you wear your watch or put it in winder. This is how your automatic charges itself.

It takes about 5 to 6 complete rotation of the A7750 rotor to complete one AB cycle on the mainspring. This requires some effort as 6 rotations requires some rather spirited shaking. This is where the click on the reversing wheels come in.

From the 5th pic, you can see that reversing wheel click (circled in red) holds back the reversing wheel. This allows your watch to store the rotations of your rotor & allows it complete the AB cycle slowly & incrementally.

So if the reversing wheel click is damaged or too short the only way for your A7750 to charge itself would be to do 5 complete rotations "at once in its entirety". Any incomplete AB cycles is lost energy & the tension in the mainspring click will be sent back to your rotor as the spring snaps back. As the damaged reversing wheel click is not able to hold back the rotor ... it will spin wildly in the opposite direction.

You can imagine how hard it will be to do 5 complete rotations "at once" in the course of normal watch wearing. This one of the most common causes of bad power reserve ... your watch can't charge itself.

So if you your rotor spins wildly & your watch has crappy power reserves ... chances are its has a damaged reversing wheel click. The reversing wheel itself is rather hardy on the A7750.

There were some forumers that cured the problem by greasing the rotor but it actuality they were merely masking the symptoms. The oil specified for the rotor is Moebius 9010. This is a very light oil. A heavy lubricant like grease on the rotor actually adds drag so thats the reason the rotors spun less wildly.

You can easily check whether the reversing wheel click is the culprit because there is spy hole on 7750 movements. You don't even need to take off the rotor. But you need to use a loupe tho.

The pic below shows the almost complete reassembly of the A7750. The last thing to go on would be the rotor. The spy hole is circled in red. You can also see the exposed teeth of the reversing wheel marked RG. The teeth on the rotor will interface with the RV once screwed on.

Hope you guys find this informative.

Based on Moze's account ... the sales girl seems pretty good & probably better than most customer service (CS) people out there.

She politely engaged him when his Omega was been fixed & tried to cross sell and market her other wares.

This is the holy grail for a CS Manager cos thats 90% of the battle already taken care.

The other 10% like product knowledge can be trained.

You'll be surprised at the percentage of CS people who do not have the CS gene ... & should not be in CS to begin with!

Weird thing about us rep owners (& I'm quilty of this myself) is we get easily appalled at the lack of knowledge of sales people but at the same time fear being called out if the sales person is very knowledgeable. We can't have it both ways.

A Chopard black GTXL non chrono. Looked nice but grew tired of it very fast for some reason.

Conversely one of my favorites is the Omega SMP ... its a very simple watch but it has presence!

The way it looks, feels & sits on my wrist - not to OTT & not to understated either.

I used WD 40 on caseback and crown gaskets but I think I read that silicone can cause the gaskets to expand or something like that so I've taken to using the grease you can get from Ofrei. I just unscrew the caseback and remove the stem then grease up (in the case of a Rolex rep) the caseback and crown/stem gaskets, carefully reinsert the stem/make sure it's working (toughest part for a noob like myself) and replace the caseback. My SeaDweller is been on shallow(ish) dives down to 50-75ft and in the shower/pool and is perfectly fine...I usually reapply the grease every 6 months or so.

Actually rubber doesn't react to silicon as it is inert. It reacts to mineral based oils. Thats the reason you seeing warnings on condom packaging not to use mineral oils such as petroleum jelly as a lubricant .... it damages the entegrity of the seal

One should also not use WD-40 as it was never designed as a lubricant to begin with. The designation WD actually refers to Water Displacer - 40

Dude, the scratch lies diagonally across the direction of the brushing. Maybe I should push the Scotch Brite pad along the brushing lines?

Try a nail buff. Go to the manicure section & get one of those 4 grade nail buffs.

They have 4 buffing surfaces (2 on each side) from rough to superfine.

Start with the 3 roughest & work your way to the finest grade.

If this cheap solution doesn't work ... than pony up for a dremel.

It could have been worse!

They could have etched in "Calibre 3135"

Hi all,

I have an Ajoesmith 03-92 that i wore to an amusement park with my daughter. She wanted to ride water rides all day and of course it got wet. Didnt think it would be a big deal, but apparently it was. I hve condensation on the inside of the crystal and the weird thing is the hands are wet..STILL!! We went almost two weeks ago!! Not sure how that is even possible.

Anyway, Should I try to open this thing up and dry it out? I threw it on a floor register and blasted it with air conditioned air and it didnt do anything...but make it cold! Is it hard to open these up and better yet, is it hard to put em back together again...if you have no skill or experience!!

Thanks!

Jet

Hi! jetzeus,

It's better that you open your BR. It going to be difficult to get it dry otherwise. Taking the 1st step is often difficult but put this way ... if you don't open it up your watch will be screwed by water damage anyway. You've got nothing to lose!

There are 2 ways of opening your BR - Opening just the front plate or removing the whole movement.

Removing the whole movement is preferred in your case. It is not difficult but admit I was nervous the 1st time i did it as well.

This is how you do it:

1) Look at the back of the case. You will see a small screw that says "Do Not Unscrew". Ignoring the obvious ... you unscrew it!

2) Unscrew the crown & pull it to the time setting position.

3) Look through the small hole uncovered by the screw on the back. You will see tiny button you need to depress to release the crown stem from the case. Please note that there is a moving rotor behind so it might block the crown release ... just move your watch around a bit & the rotor will get out of the way.

4) Once you locate the crown release ... use a tooth pick & press it down while pulling on the crown & stem gently while. It will come out. You may need a torchlight as the opening left by the screw is rather small.

5) Turn the your BR to the front & remove the 4 screws on the face.

6) Flip it around & the face will pop of together with the movement. You may need to helpit along by using a tootpick at one of the open screw holesto gently pry it out.

Put aside the screws & place the 3 parts (front plate, case & movement) in container with silica gel to dry out.

If you concerned about removing the crown & stem ... please search on RWG as there are pictorial tutorials on how to it. Its a little different in the case of the BR cause it opens from the front unlike most wathces that open from the back but the idea is the same.

To put it back together you just do the opposite. However, when you insetr back the stem & crown & meet some resistance ... don't worry. The stem is keyed so just turn it gently & it slot right back in.

Thats also what I believe. I cant say if its true or not, because I dont know, noone of us knows for sure besides JC Biver and the HBB maker.

I somehow cant see how the factory would

a) sell those things to a replica maker and risking the Hublot contract

why the HBB maker wouldnt just have someone else make this bezel. I'm sure there's lots of factories who can make the bezel for much less than the OEM factory. I mean the OEM factory definitely has higher QC standarts than any other factory.

Or is the Rolex rep factory also asking the Rolex-Insert-Factory for OEM inserts?!? I think not!

And from first hand experience I have learned that this whole "they sneaked some items out of the OEM factory" is a bunch of [censored]. Thats the same lie I fell for when I bought those golf clubs (call me stupid, but I trusted other members here who falsely confirmed the authenticity!)

In China - anything that is worthwhile copying ... will!

A German engineer related how he stumbled on to what he thought was one of his machines in a tradeshow in China. To his horror he discovered it was 1:1 copy - shape, decals, fucntionality ... they even copied exactly the bolts & screws that put the contraption together! Machine sold at 1/4 the price & worked as advertised. He was tempted to quit his job & sell them in the EU. Imagine for price of 1 German machine, you can buy 4 Chinese machines, use 3 to triple your production & keep 1 machine for spares.

Its very common for Western manufacturers who sub-contract their production to China to see ther wares ripped off ... by the very company they subcontracted to. Once they know what to do & how to do it ... they will find innovative ways of increasing their income ie. make it for other people without your knowledge. This is what happened to French a crane manufacurer who saw their products dittoed wholesale & being sold domestically. Rather than threaten to sue like most Americans would do ... they negotiated for the Chinese to make certain of their range & ended making tons of money for both. The French for some reason are very adept at understanding the Chinese ... "If I Can't Stop You, Its Better That I Help You!"

Thats being said ... I do believe the bezel story may have been cooked-uped to push up prices. There has been much cartell bashing but I can also understand why the cartell are trying to raise their prices. Selling reps is not an easy business as one might think. Many dealers have left the industry as it is tough dealing with finicky/dishonest customers with unresaonable expectations. I believe their margins are above a 100% & this due to high service standards expected in the Western world. Look at the post by ex-dealer Eddie Lee where listed all the perils of the rep industry - charge backs, seized goods, unreasonable customers etc. Cusomers expect guarantees from dealers who themselves don't get any from manufacurers ... this will come at a price!

I buy all my reps retail & they are indeed cheaper than the cartell by 30-40% but than again they don't to deal with customs, chargebacks, lost-in-transits, perceived misrepresentations, DOAs etc. I recently got a HBB for about US$400 - ceramic bezel, faux fine reg, double AR, correct font engraved rotor & correct marking caseback. The only issue was the sawtooth & the screw-in crown. The cartell doesn't even have this model yet.

Any leather - cow, croc. snake is not waterproof after it comes off the animal.

Basically the ability to withstand water is a function of the natural oils produced by the animal's glands that moisturizes its skin.

No different from humans really.

Quality leather straps (aniline & semi-aniline) are generally not waterproofed as the process will make it lose its suppleness & make it brittle.

Thats the reason bad quality leather will crack & flake after some use ... cos they dry out from the inside.

Leather protectors based on silicon are bad for any leather but that doesn't mean it can't be used.

The treatment will lock out some water but also prevent the leather from breathing & being moisturized.

The trick is to treat your straps with a leather moisturizer/conditioner before applying the protector.

Wow! The writer must have been feasting on bong water!

Lets see ...

1) Make a nice case,

2) Fit in a "beutified" ETA movement thats been available since the 70s

3) Slap on Hublot, Maurice Lacroix, Panerai etc on it

4) Charge people $6-10 grand for them.

5) Charge them 100x the cost of parts during servicing/maintenance.

In the mean time, in some far away land, they are able to churn out the same watch thats about "90-95% there" for $250-600.

To me it not about Gen Vs Rep!

It about Stupid Vs Not Stupid!

I never aim to pass my watches off as gens. If someone assumes it's real, that's up to them. If they think it's a fake, then good for them. If they actually bother to ask me, I'll tell them I wear reps because I don't think they (gens)(as a brand name product) are worth the price tag. I'm simply not prepared to pay it, as I have more important things to spend money on. Reps give me a watch I like, for a fraction of the cost of the gen, meaning I can have a larger collection.

You hit the nail TJ. I do take a glee in beating the system so to speak.

I started out collecting Swatches & remember seeing an interview where Nicholas Hayek (Chairman of Swatch) stated matter of factly that Omegas were mark uped 1000%. This was back in the day when Swatch had just acquired Omega ... so the markup is probably way higher now.

So while we complain about clone ETAs ... we miss the fact that we get totally ripped-off when we buy gens.

Lets face it, most big name watches under 10 grand will use an ETA that probably costs less than 10 bucks off the line.

Many deep pocket guys I know are into super reps in a big way.

Super reps are work of art & have sparked an interest in horology in a way no one expected.

I'm sure most forumers here have at least some basic watch tools & will pick up some horogical skills eventually.

Love of watches ... I don't know! I think its down more to a fear of our reps failing at the most inappropriate of times & we get called out.

Those darn Asian 7750s!

To sell 50 watches per day he (or they) must receive at least 1,000 emails per day. If your inquiry to sale ratio is around 5 to 10% in any business you are doing great. It is physically impossible for any one person to respond to over 1,000 emails per day.

This brings into light a new theory. Call me mr conspiracy and flame me if you will, but tell me if this makes sense.

We know the Andrew and Josh are made up names to sound more americanized in the first place seeing that us americans or other foreigners have trouble pronouncing Asian names. I have never had a problem with that. It has been going on for years starting with Mohammed calling himself Mike or Sam at every convenience store. I think that maybe Andrew and Josh started out as small individual dealers. They are obviously great marketeers because they have built up quite a nice business. Somehwere along the line they joined forces forming a conglomerate. They tried to suck in King and Angus, but those two went their own directions. These two dealers have become very high volume and have hired some help. The emails are reponded to according to which site they are generated from to still give that personal feel. Maybe they go into the same inbox and are distributed in the same office for replies. Andrew and Josh have become the Ronald Mcdonald or Colonals of the replica watch industry. They have branded themselves and continue to project their image but in reality emails are coming from some $2 per hour assistant.

I don't care if this is the case, but there is no reason to talk to any customer like this. If my assistant eer made a comment like that she would be fired in a heartbeat. Just some food for thought that our dealers aren't as personal as they seem. Why do you think some dealers actually post on the boards regularly and others don't? Andrew and Josh are like the big box store of reps. Not a bad thing, but just also an assumption.

Many Asians have Christian names now. Nothing strange about it at all.

That being said Andrew & Josh probably have some retail concern ... so 50 watches a day would not be surprising.

I've been to a couple of better shops in the Far East & the owners do most of the internet sales themselves but do delegate if they're busy.

If the response was not typically Andrew, it might have been one of his staff who was probbaly disgruntle seeing how his boss was "rolling it in" with 50 super reps a day