afiartis

My favorite watch: GEN (of course!) Alpina Avalanche R

How about

LAST NIGHT : Mille Miglia on Pearly Galuchat

THIS MORNING: (Tuesday night, Wednesday morning

OK, this is a somewhat stupid question, but I'm looking for knowledge as well as experience, and I would be surprised not to find it here.

Here goes:

I'd like to get a NICE Daytona. By "nice", I mean equivalent in quality to the Speedy I got from Ruby: a nice, very nice WATCH per se, not just a good rep (the "better" Speedmaster with glass back and manual faux Lemania is a somewhat accurate rep, of course paling when compared to the gen, but my point is: it is truly a beautiful watch with PRESENCE. The first rep I got that gives me this feeling, after some cheap PAMs, and an OK Carrera).

My question: Do any of the Daytona reps out there give this feeling of "NICE watch" - regardless of how accurate they may be?

And its corrolary: How different, in terms of FEEL, are the super cheap Daytonas - such as http://www.watchsilix.com/product.asp?id=642 - vs the somewhat better ones - such as http://www.silix-prime.com/product.asp?id=1426? Anything even better out there?

I do understand that the super cheap ones have non working chronos, and a different movement, but frankly I don't care that much: I am not expecting wonders from the movement of even top-of-the-range reps. I am thinking more of the finish of the case, the quality of the indexes, etc

Surely, some of the experts reading this must have climbed the steps as I am preparing to do: the cheap stuff first, "to see", then the more expensive ones… is it a mistake, should I start with the most expensive Daytona money can buy (apart form the gen ), or will the difference between El Cheapos and El Medios be negligible for someone who disregards rep movements?

What about this one?

I took it to the moon here.

so, THAT's where it met the Alpha!!

or as Tintin would have it:

Welcome to the forum, always a pleasure to find another Speedy Pro fan. Never seen the Alpha version before! I did a post comparing my rep Speedy to my new gen that you might find interesting (see By-Tors Omega guide). You're right that it is great watch in itself. You could ask your friend to freeze the 6 o'clock subdial.

Thanks for the Parisian welcome. I liked your review! you're right in that the rep is a fine watch in itself, but of course the gen has an intangible quality that's hard to put into words : finish, smoothness, detail… whatever you want to call it. Or is it all in my head!! :-) It would be interesting to do double-blind tests, experimentator AND subject not knowing which is which and rating both, experimental-psychology-style and to see which one comes on top for preference.

A case in point: the "silver ring" on the rep's dial, which you mention, and which makes it LOOK smaller.

First, I didn't like it (different from the real thing and making it look SMALLER??!! c'mon!). Then, after a while I actually think that's how the GEN should look: it makes the watch looks sharper, thinner, more precise, and plays off on the contrast with the black dial (and the Speedy is all about contrast, right?)

Thanks for this information. It is fascinating as I had no idea. A GTG with a master. Would he even want to see our selection of reps we usually bring to ooh and aah over with each other?

Usil

We can try ! No harm done if he says no, but he's a pretty mellow guy, and always open to new ideas

It sounds typically Parisian.

It is, especially in Le Marais, which is the oldest part of town after Ile de la Cité.

Let me know of your next get-together when you have one

Funny. I stopped working in Rue des Archives just before I got into reps. Damn, I say.

Any shops you'd recommend? Any watchmaker supply shops you know about?

For service, maintenance, mods, I most definitely recommend my friend's shop/atelier, facing Le Carreau du Temple - Jean-Paul mostly repairs, but also trades some watches (e.g. he can look for a special piece for you, via his flea market connections).

But two words of warning:

First, you should NOT be in a hurry. As an example, he has been looking for a special battery for a Vintage 70s Omega LED for me for… more than 18 months! He works at his rythm, but he is most knowledgeable and reliable, and will always tell you straight yes or no, as opposed to promising whatever you want to hear. For instance, he often services some very expensive pieces, but he will tell you right away that he will not touch complications (he feels that 40 years is not enough experience, and that he lacks the special training and tools). On top of his - vast- expertise, he has access to a large network of very specialized competences, from easy stuff (engraving, the 2nd generation engraver working by hand is next door) to harder to find work (special polishing for Rolex, which needs a specific machine for optimal results; repainting vintage dials and reproducing their markings from original clichés…)

Second, he does not condone reps. If you know him well, he will fix stuff for your rep as a service, but he is - how could it be otherwise? - not in favor of reps. He feels that there are enough beautiful gen watches out there to not bother with reps (which tend to break down more easily, and are just as time-consuming, thus just as expensive to fix).

The best would be that I provide a personal introduction if you ever organize another get-together (we can have a drink in one of the street cafés with him)

For supplies, you can buy some stuff from the wholesale shops on rue Réaumur (Selfor, etc) which will generally sell you some retail pieces if you insist (ex all tools such as Outil Bergeon to remove straps). The band supplier is an old chinese shop on rue des Gravilliers, but again the guy can be a bit temperamental and it's not easy to sort out the good stuff from within the chaos of his boutique (he will not take things out, unless you insist). The quality, as I said, is a toss-of-the-coin proposition.

All this may sound a bit like "friends of friends" type advice, but it's really the way the Quartier works: the watchmaking and jewelry profession is made of survivors who have been struggling for years, so they are a close-knit network. It's quite different from the "open storefront" of a board.

Where is this district?

It's "Le Marais" (3rd Arrdt), from its South part - Rue du Temple area - all the way up to République.

for the band - here is an even closer, even worse look :-) using my Powerbook's built-in webcam

and an - even worse!! - mood webcam shot - it's getting late here in the City of Lights

and for final comparison, although we'ere moving from Replica to Hommage here, a not-webcam-but-realcam view of my other Speedy, an Alpha:

Actually not a bad watch at all. You don't get the "genuine" thrill, but the dial is of a deep black indeed, the overall heft and feel is excellent, so is the bracelet.

The only problem is that it's not a rep: First, I loved the Alpha vs Omega joke when I bought it, and I felt that one should clearly chose to go Gen or not.

But after feeling how nice it felt and the reactions it brought (from the microcosmic population which actually notices you're wearing a watch :-), I started regretting that it did not say "Omega".

Now I don't know anymore… And I have a rep of my rep :-) (the "vache qui rit" effect… refelecting mirrors)

Nice story...What kind of leather strap did you add to the watch?

it's a genuine croc, matte black - some can be found quite cheap in Paris watchmakers' district chinese importers (30 euros or less), but it's a hit-an-miss proposition, with quality varying enormously. you never really know how they will look until you wear them for a few days…

OK, first the story.

I just went to lunch with my watchmaker friends. One is about 60, still running a small two-man shop ("atelier") where he repairs anything from current stuff to extremely precious pieces (100-year old Pateks) for people who don't want to spend the extraordinary prices asked by the Manufactures for small maintenance/repairs (oiling a rolex, checking it and re-polishing it can cost the price of 3 reps, with him it's only the price of two reps :-). He started as a Low Man on the Totem Pole when he was 16 in Besaçon, the Jura part of France next to Switzerland where the Manufactures used to be BQ (BeforeQuartz, when Lip et al were wiped off), and at some point was running a 30-people shop.

The other guy is retired but still deals in watches on the Paris flea market, again anything from 5 euro pieces to be fixed to a 9600 euro Chopard he just sold for cash to a French Chinese wanting to sell it back in China.

Both have repaired watches for over 40 years (each!).

Naturally they asked me what I was up to lately, with my "internet stuff". I told them I had finally found a Speedmaster within my means, used, and showed them Ruby's watch (*Ruby's Speedmaster, best quality - check his album, and a photo below for all you lazy guys*), took it off my wrist and asked them to check the back. They both said it looked great, asked me how much it cost and guessed about half the cost of new. Of course I then told them it was a Rep, and the second guy told me he had had doubts because of the shape of the wheel / balancier (didn't say a thing out of politeness until I called it myself), but both said this looked terrific and "good enough to fool them" at first inspection, and in any way it looked good as a watch, period (the best compliment for a Rep, right?). Later in "their" bar, full of watchmakers like them, a dealer offered me 25% of the price of new to buy it, saying "he was not in this for philantropy", but not guessing it was a rep (he did not have his glasses, though, and both my friends had looked at it in the street, without loupe).

SO, second: what's the moral?

The moral is that

* a rep is still a rep: when I checked my - beloved- watch next to the real thing perfectly lit in Wempe's window on Rue Royale, the difference was quite visible: the deep deep black, the sensuous finish, the size (the Rep looks smaller although it measures the same, but after a while, smaller actually IS better, like mobile phones :-) etc

But when do you get to see both side-by-side? right… And I still love my rep just as much.

* but this one perfectly fits my purpose which is: As long as I can't afford the real thing, I can please myself with a credible substitute, good enough EX ABSTRACTO, as a watch in itself, and good enough to be rated on a par with the genuine piece by most people, including truly knowledgeable professionals, and MOST IMPORTANTLY myself!