ww12345

You didn't even bring up the subject? Dude, it's in your sig and your interests. I like to think of us here as one big happy family/community of friends, and if there's one thing you don't talk about with friends or family, it's politics...

Yeah, it's really interesting - my gen Omega Seamaster (not the actual diving version, but a "dress" version from 1963) is really, really thin! It's a Cal. 565, which isn't even the thinnest movement they made, and the watch basically disappears on your wrist... Really pretty impressive, when you think about it... Some pics of the movement (not my pics, and the second one is a 561, which is basically the same movement, just adjusted for more positions):

Does it look relumed? To me, the round "ends" of the 3 and 6 markers definitely mark it as original lume... Either way, a case set is going to be just a little bit of cash.

Lume looks consistent for a service dial... Especially the 3 o'clock marker.

Testors Enamel Paint in a can, maybe... Have to disassemble the watch first, though.

Hmmm... Yeah, I wonder if buying the Josh watch plus a Clarks retaining ring and bezel might be the cheapest way to go, in the long run. That way I would have the option of swapping stuff back and forth between cases, getting the best of both, plus having a decent bezel. I don't mind if it's not super shiny like gen - I usually like my watches to look more "used" than some of the members. They usually spend quite some time in JMB's rock tumbler! lol

Ditto - I think the "handcrafted" aspect really works for a vintage model. Cool build!

Wow, that actually looks pretty good... Doesn't have the fugly (IMHO) massive lugs of the newer ceramic models. Wonder how long before we see a rep?

Cool - got the Athaya crown. I've now got the crown, the case, the Whoopy 5514 dial, and the T-19 crystal. Now I just need to get a gen bezel assembly and movement. Who's best for the bezel assembly right now? Clarks or WSO? From what I understand, they both have problems... Also, where's a good place to get an ETA movement (cheap)?

It doesn't have gen bezel assembly, but I was thinking of getting an aftermarket one and having JMB make me a new bezel ring... Agreed on the CGs. I'm going to see if I can get an Ayatha 702 crown and tube. Other than that, does the case look OK for a mid-price 5514 build?

I don't really care about engravings. To me, that's a little too obsessive - I don't use gen movements, so the second someone opens it the jig is up, so to speak. Ditto for the lug engravings - usually do my best to scratch out the engravings, making it look like many of the gens I've seen in person and on VRF. However, there are some things like case thickness and CGs that do matter and that some are better then others. It seems like an MBK case would be the best, unless the Josh case I have now is good enough. I'll take a picture and see if I can attach it to the next post. One of the things the Josh case has going for it is the COMEX engraving, which I believe is close-ish to an early COMEX back. Ditto for the HEV, even though it is fake.

I know this has been tread over a few times, but does anyone sell just regular 5513 MBW/MBK cases? I think there were a few people on here a couple of years ago that could just get cases and I wondered if that was still the case. That said, is that even still the best case (besides a HH case) for an early COMEX 5513? I've got an old Josh SD 1665 (with the paperclip bezel) and was toying with the idea of using that if I shaved the case down a bit. Is WSO stiil OK for 5513 bezels?

+1. Go with a M2M unless you're a glutton for punishment or really really picky about what you get (like I am... lol)

Yeah, same. If it doesn't have a gen movement that doesn't make it not a Franken. The most expensive parts (the case and the movement are the only non gen parts, basically)... Pretty much Franken to me...

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I agree that just swapping a crown or using gen springbars isn't a Franken, but if the cost of the parts makes it unfeasible I don't see why that makes it not a Franken. Isn't that the cause for reps anyway - making a watch appear to be one thing at a significantly reduced cost?

Check out the 24hr hand on TRF: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=356311 Doesn't the 24hr hand look aftermarket? Notice how it doesn't actually taper - it says square like the PC or PT models...

Yeah, I'm not too find of using a gen movement unless the dial is super rare and I couldn't bring myself to clip the dial feet. Otherwise, why? Like you said, seems kind of silly.

If I remember right, the gen GMT hand is easier to get to fit on the ETA or the clone then on the Asian movement. Also, the Asian movement winds in only one direction, while the ETA winds in both. (This is as far as I remember - correct me if in wrong!)

Yeah, I agree that there are different levels. I'm not so convinced about mid case though... I've seen some pretty cool Franken 6542s on here that didn't have an original mid case. Does that mean they're not as good? I saw an original mid case on VRM for like $8500. Does that mean that they should have to buy that before their watch can be classed as a Franken? However, if we're talking a simple DJ or something and the person is like "Yeah, it's got gen springbars" then I agree. My line drawn is usually dial, crystal and crown (the three biggest tells in my book). The mid case can always be reshaped, but the dial is usually make or break.

That's pretty cool! I wonder why more dials don't come with a few extra feet to be clipped off... That's a good idea!

I didn't try Ofrei, and to be honest I'm not sure what size I need... Anyone have gen specs for 6542 or 1016 hands?

Right - that's what I was saying. Good dial for a starter to see if they even like the style/size of a 1016. I remember the first rep I bought was a 1680 and decided I never wanted a cyclops on a dive watch. I sure am glad I figured that out with a $125 rep instead of a $500+ MBW. Different goals for different levels.

So while I was looking at pics of 1016 models for JMB's thread I noticed that the middle era 1016's (around the time they switched from gilt to plain text) have really long minute hands and almost a lollipop second hand. Any idea where you can get these type of hands aftermarket? I'd like to upgrade mine to a set like that, and have bought similar looking hands from forum members but where do they get them? Just curious... Right now I've got Clark's aftermarket on and it just feels like there's something missing.

Here's some examples of chapter ring vs non chapter and gilt (earlier models) vs non gilt (around 1965 and later).