mrnixon

I got the impressioin from a message above that the weakest link would be the hands of the watch and that they would not be possible to use after the watch has been service. Then I thought a watch without hands is not very useful and decided therefor not to buy it, which made me write that I had saved 250 usd. Then I read today that the problem with the hands is apparantly only that the blue ones might loose some paint. which I think is not the end of the world. So we'll see, I will probably go for one PAM (probably 177) and the IWC Jones both with swiss movements. So now I want to learn more where to get a real swiss movement. My impression after reading both here at the forum but mainly also elsewhere is that it seems to be a very robust and reliable movement which is easy and cheap to get the service for, ie just what I am looking for. After reading the messages here at the forum it is rather confusing and requires alot of research. I am not so interested in swan necks etc, all I want is a genuine Swiss 6497 that is reliable today and in 10 years. I wish there was some kind of standard so that Swiss ETA 6497 really means exactly that and not something else so that I end up paying 300 usd for a watch with a movement for which I cannot find spareparts in the future etc.

Thanks for chearing me up! Maybe you are right, it is not as bad as it looks. When you read the problem discussions (I have almost only followed the Panerai related) it contains everything from movement problems (espcially the chronographs of course), canon pins which are too short, crystals cracking (pam 127), hands which cannot be service, bezel problems, and now lately misunderstandings of swiss vs chin movements and fake saphire crystals. Huuuh long list. But I guess what we see is probably the results of people having problems, whereas the ones which are happy simply keep their watch and we dont read about it. So maybe I should give it a second chance, have a watch maker taking a look at the movement and maybe get a PAM 177 and a IWC Jones. Since all watches I have, are equiped with ETA 6497, I am thinking about buying the watch repair course at Time Zone. It seems to be a rather basic and simple movement so I guess as a beginner is should be a good start. And if something goes wrong it is not the end of the world. I sort of like the idea of being able to fix my own watch, which is something I would never do with for example Reverso GT or vintage Rolex SD. About the present problem, that it stops after 12 hours. I winded it yesterday night and thought I should let it go until it stops. So far 19 hours have passed and it still keeps perfect time. It seems very strange, so I will continue studying how this problem occurs. Thanks for comments and suggestions.

Thanks for you comments above. I notice the problem yesterday for the second time (the first was just what I bought it I was not 100% sure when I winded the watch). I will measure a the time passed between when I fully wind it and when it stops and see if it allways stops after a certain numbe of hours. More generally I begin to get som doubts if this replica hobby is my bag. I have been collecting gen vintage Rolexes for a long time and thought that as a beater I could get a pam rep to modify a little to make it look a bit more vintage. So I bought this watch for 350 usd with a swiss simple movement made by Eta hoping that it should work for at least a couple of years before requiring service or oil, like the movement seems to operate in regular cheaper brands (Zeno, Glycine etc) using the same movement. But after reading here on the forum I realize that for some reason the same movement does not work in the same way when put in a rep. And also more or less everything else seems to break within a short period of time (one guy even exampel said that the arms of a IWC Jones allways breaks when you service it). So not even the simplest watches with the simplest and best quality movement seems to last for a very long time. And after all, 250 usd is not so little money. It is of course nothing compared with a gen, but it is still a considerable amount of money and at least I expect to get something decent in return. Hope I dont sound rude or negative, and please tell me I am wrong. But this has been my experience from my only purchase and from reading as much as possible here the forum over the last two months.

If you want my personal view, I would use the budget to get her a genuine nice handbag, nice pen etc. For a budget of around 200-300 usd you can get something nice, not a fake. It is fun to have a rep watch as a beater which you dont have to be careful with, but I would never give my wife a fake watch. She does deserve better than that. Just my view, hope I didnt offent anyone.

Thanks for your reply. No, it seems like it that watch is fully winded so it probably "the last 40 hours" missing. The strange thing is that until it stops the watch really keeps perfect time.

I put my message here at the since the movement seems to be common in many watches. I bought a Pam with a Swiss Unitas 6497-1 a month ago. It keeps perfect time, ie 0 seconds deviation, for around 12 h and after that it stops. I guess that is not normal? Does it indicate some serious problem or does it only need some cleaning and oil? I thought since it is a swiss movement from ETA it should be clean and oiled from the factory, just like when it is put in watches from regular brands (like Oris, etc using standard 6497 movements), and therefore should be going for at least a year until any action would be required.

Thanks for your input. Since I was going to buy one (a Swiss), you saved me 250-300 usd. It is maybe not so much money but still, if the watch is just going to last a year or so (when the first service is needed) and after that it will just end up as worthless junk in a drawer, it is still not worth the money. And if you think about it, a few of those lemons will together, in terms of money, will make the same amount as for example a genunine Omega Speedmaster Profesional in good second hand condition and that is a very nice watch which will last for a life time and which you can sell and get your money back etc. So I am very happy about this forum and comments like this so we can avoid lemons and can use our money in a wiser way. The more I read, I learn that it is not difficult to get carried away by pictures and then waste serious amonts of money on poor quality and disappointments. Thanks again.

Its a replica. UlfalsoofSweden

Are you happy with your swiss version? I am thinking about getting one, so a short review or other info such as where you bought it etc would be very appreciated. Thanks Ulf

I am not expert on watch making, but wouldnt the best be to get a crown which is not of screw down type? Then one just wind the watch like a regular manual one and there will be no problem with threads being worn out. The problem is of course that it would not be waterproof, but who would use a fake 183 for diving any ways?

Wow, beautiful watch. Now it gets a bit OT, but since the swiss vs ch movement issue came up. I am far from an expert on reps but my philosophy is to buy the simplest and best quality possible. The reason is that for me it is simply not worth all the problems searching the net, wire money, potential problems with the customs, pick up the watch etc if the watch does not last for a longer period of time. To get something that almost imediately will require shipping all over the world, problems with spare parts and not finding a willing watchmaker is not worth the eventual savings in the range of 100 usd. I want to buy a watch that with a minimum of service will last for at least 10 years, preferably longer. I therefore go for a watch with the swiss eta 6497. It seems to be a rock solid movement that almost any watch maker can find spare parts for and should be able to provide service. The same is valid for simplicity of the watch. Reading the forum gives me the impression that if something is complicated and can break, well then it will break. And that means the same as just mentioned, sending it all over the world, problems with spare parts etc. Therefore I try to avoid everything which can possibly bread such as rotating bezels, screw crowns, and all other moving parts. As you can imagine a Breitling wiht ch 7750 or similar watches is not really my bag with :-) Based on that I have to favorites with Swiss ETAs, the Pam 111, 177 et al (not much can break on watch like that I guess) and the IWC Jones (nothing can break there I guess that cannot be easily repaired or replaced). Both of them are also two of my favorite watches among gens. I guess both those models will last and make me happy for a very long time.

With a hole I mean that at the top of the crown there is a little hole where you can see the pin comming out of the movement. If you look at the link in my previous message, you can see that this little hole is covered with a blue sticker. At least that is how it looks at the pictures when you enlarge them.

Wow beautiful watch. Could you please tell us a little bit more about it? Where you bought it, movement etc? I have been looking at this one at some dealers but most of the ones I have seen have a little hole in the top of the crown (sometimes covered by a blue sticker like this http://watchwindersworld.com/iw10025-jones...498-p-1008.html ) I dont know if the picture show some kind of pre production version but I think it does not look very nice so I have been waiting for a nicer version to come with a Swiss made movement.

I have, as I said above, bought a watch from him and I am happy with the seller. He sent the items as promised etc so I am considering buying the same watch but in titanium. But I have also read the thread in General Discussion about dealers "white lies" (ie claiming to use Swiss movements and saphire crystal when it is not) so before buying as second watch I wanted to be 100% that it is a Swiss made Eta. But again, my experience from the seller is so far good, but since he is not making the watches himself I wanted to ask some experts here on the forum. "Better safe than sorry" as they say........

I was reading your message with great interest. I was not sure if I understood you correctly though, the movements on your pictures, are they Swiss made or Asian? The reason I am asking is that I compared your pic with my movement and they appear identical. I bought my watch a month ago, it is very exact, and the rest of the watch is also wonderful with a good finish, feels solid etc. and the seller was also good (price around 300usd) . So now I am thinking about also buying the titanium version as well, but will only do so if it has a Swiss movement. The watch I bought was this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNITAS-ETA-6497-WATC...1QQcmdZViewItem

I would have gone for something in a contrasting colour. Preferably light/medium brown. With a blue strap on a blue watch the whole thing gets too blue for my taste.

I would go for a regular 111H. It is in my view the most classic of all PAM. One alternative if you like the bit cooler look but dont want to go as extreme as a PVD could be a titanium 177.

Now it got complicated again. I had finally decided to go for a Davidsens latest titan model, mainly since I got the impression his watches are of best replica quality. What is your impression about Perfect Clones versions? Thanks for your anwer, Ulf

Which modifications are you suggesting of the 111h?

I think the Pam 217 version is wonderful. Very very nice and something Panerai should consider. Personally I wasnt so fond of the the other one PVD version. As there are no numbers it looses a bit of its tool watch image and moves towards Movados Museum watch.

It is of course totally crazy to pay such an amount for a leather strap. But on the other hand, the buyer probaly owns a matching watch from the same time period. I am dont know the price level on those watches but I would guess around 50 000 usd but I guess it could also be twice as much. Considering that, it all of a sudden makes sense to spend 2% on a correct strap.

Thanks for your answer. Now I guess I can invest some more in the watch. Planning to get some nice vintage looking straps and brass coloured arms to make it look a bit more vintage.

With Fiddy, I guess you are only referring to 1950 version 127 and 217? Or does it have a wider meaning including all Panerai watches?

Wan, Thanks for your long discussion. I am just curious to hear your opinion about a plain un-modified Swiss made ETA/Unitas 6497 and how it would be in comparison with the movements you are discussing above in terms of reliability and quality. I bought a replica recently, which does not have any names etc neither on the back, the movement nor the dial. The reason was simply that I did not want it to look like a rep. I normally collect vintage sport rolexes and I did not want anyone to think I am going around with a fake watch since I think most of my friends who are also watch enthusiasts would probably find it a bit cheap (no critisism here of people buying reps, this was just my logic). Therefore I decided to go for one without any markings what so ever since then it will not look like I am pretending anything and that I have just bought a fun watch for what it is. I am happy with the quality of the outer things such as screws, spring bar and crown protector and it keeps perfect time (a few seconds per day). The feeling of the watch is not very different compared with a gen Pam 111. My friend has one and the outer parts which could feel different still don't show any significan difference compaired with mine. The reason I am curious about the long term quality of my movement is that I am considering spending some money on a couple of straps, new arms and some other modifications to make it look more vintage. But I dont want to do that if the movement is of poor quality that will break down soon and after that the watch and all the money spend will just end up in a drawer. My impression was that ETA Swiss 6497 ought to be a rather solid movement, which should be lasting for almost a life time provided I service it now and then. I has been produced for over 50 years so eventual weaknesses should have been changed. I then got a bit surprised when you talked about lack of stability etc. I would very much appreciate your, or anyoneelses view on this issue. Thanks in advance