jj69

I did a little research in the archives and I see that one of the reasons to add some gen parts to the EP movement is to remove the second "date set" position when pulling the crown. 

I see ND Trading sells gen 16520 dials with a set of hands included.  I assume the hands are rep.  Anyone know if the hands are sized to fit the Rolex caliber 4020 or the EP 400? 

Okay, but is that the ONLY reason to hunt down those very expensive parts? 

Do they add the hack feature to the movement?  Can one build a Franken Daytona with rep hands and achieve the same functionality? 

Does Phong or anyone make rep hands to fit the stock Zenith EP? 

This is what we call a "passion" some of is out there like the thrill of the hunt for that certain part, or making sure the movement, case, dial are perfect. It's a hobby and some guys are hardcore frankenstiners and some just don't get it, either way in the end you have a great piece frank or not.

I always wanted to build one of these, but I'm scared off by the cost of the component parts.  I don't quite understand the need to use gen Rolex center, chrono, cannon pinion, minute, and hour wheels. 

My undrestanding is that the the primary reason behind use of the gen Rolex wheels is that the gen Rolex hands are a different size than the ones on thestock Zenith El Primero 400 movement.  Apparently, the sizes are very different, and the only way to get a clean looking install is to use the gen Rolex wheels.  However is that the ONLY reason?  Does use of all these gen parts add something else to the build (like adding a working hack mechanism for example)? 

It seems foolish to me to buy these gen parts at the exhorbitant prices people are charging just to acommodate the (also very expensive) gen hands. 

Why not just use rep hands on the Zenith movement, save yourself a whole lot of money, and be done with it? 

There are plenty of "aftermarket" Daytona hands out there, but I'm not quite sure of the hand sizes available.  Perhaps they're all sized for the 7750 movement?  Are the hand sizes for the El Primero and 7750 movements wildly different? 

My local watchmaker broke the post off the "hour counting wheel" (six o'clock subdial position) on my Swiss ETA 7753 movement.

I believe the ETA part number for the wheel is 7753.8600. It is NOT the same part used in the 7750 (we already tried that).

I see Borel has them for $44, but that seems excessive for such a simple part. Can anyone suggest another supplier that might have them in stock for a better price (US preferred)???

$300?

More like $100, tops.

That rep actually looks quite good. It's just too bad they went with a black dial instead of blue.

As for the specifications, the movement shown is definitely not an ETA 2836. It's a Sellita.

It's a little different on almost every version. If you're replacing with a gen dial, the gen may have to be sanded down about 1/2 mm around the edge.

OK. Well that was more then I expected but exactly what I was hoping for. THANK YOU!!!!

Got a link for one of those "magic" V3s? I have a few bookmarked, but I'd like to see which one you're specifically talking about.

I appreciate the advice.

J

As long as it's a V3 it should be the right one. The original batch of V3s should be long gone by now, unless you're unlucky and your dealer had one sitting around for a year. I think the bracelet was introduced at the same time they upgraded the dial, so as long as you get the bracelet model, you should be okay.

Here's the humble opinion of someone who has already built two Franken SAs. My advice would be to buy one of the current, upgraded V3 SAs. Be sure to get it on the bracelet. Then stop right there. You're done. Going Franken with one of these is far more aggravation than you're anticipating, and the "improvement" from adding gen parts will be far less noticeable than you think.

First, the current V3 models have upgraded dials that are much closer to gen. The baton markers on the upgraded V3 models are two pieces, just like the gen. The original V3 used one piece markers, and that's the reason everyone was going ga ga over gen dials. The current rep dials are fine, and gen dials sold on eBay are a complete rip off. They're overpriced, and most of them arrive with scratches on them because whoever removed them did a half-assed job.

Second, swapping dials on an SA rep is a nightmare. The problem is the hands on the rep. They're garbage. You cannot get the subdial hands off without breaking the pinion off. My watchamker did my two SA dial swaps, and even he managed to break a couple of them. Then you're stuck either gluing them back on, or trying to hunt for replacement parts. The chinsy hour and minute hands also picked up some scratches during the swap process. After it was done, I wished I'd never bothered changing the dials.

Third, there is no reason to buy a gen Pro2. You would never be able to tell the difference between the new V3 rep bracelet and a gen Pro2. They are almost identical. I compared two gen Pro2s with a V3 rep Pro2. There were more differences between the two gen bracelets than there were between either of them and the rep. The biggest difference is that the quality and finish of the link screws on the rep is not as good as the gen (obviously). That said, the rep screws are more than satisfactory. Note that I'm not referred to the old rep bracelet that came on the V2 SAs. That bracelet was nowhere near as good as the V3. There - I just saved you $500. You're welcome.

Fourth, installing a gen bezel on a V3 rep is NOT something that just screws on. It's a nightmare to do it. It's a nightmare getting the rep bezel off, and a bigger nightmare trying to get the gen to fit on the rep. The only person I know who has ever done is successfully is Smidsy ,and he works in a watch repair shop. There is nothing wrong with the rep bezel either. Again, save your money.

The only real issue you will have with the V3 is that the movement is not the most reliable. I have no idea why. With this rep, it is best to NOT run the chrono. Some people will tell you this is true of any A7750, but the V3's chrono mechanism seems especially sensitive to mis-alignment when reset. I just wouldn't use it.

Last but not least, I would avoid V2 SAs entirely. Some people like that they're more water tight, and the bezel may be a bit better quality. However, the crown tube on the V2s is a disaster. EVERY one of them eventually get stripped and you can no longer screw down the crown. I've never seen one that didn't develop this problem eventually. I wouldn't even consider one.

1. Yes. Both trigger/reset button styles are correct. Graham made both styles and didn't even bother to use a different model number for each.

2. No. You would need the bicompax module removed from the Chinese 7750 and installed on your ETA which is not an easy job.

3. I doubt it. I would never get a watch that costs more than $25 wet, but that's just me.

4. Just Loctite, or perhaps you could get replacement screws from your dealer (if the screws are stripped rather than the threads in the case).

Yes, the genuine BTR is a great watch for a great price. I got mine at a Movado Co store for $2,200 on bracelet. They have that sale particular twice a year, I believe. Usually right after Christmas, and again some time mid-year. Another option is GemmNation. They're not an authorized dealer, but they frequently mark the BTRs down to about the same price, and sometimes a bit less.

The gen Discovery should be in the same price range as the B&M Riveras ($1,200 - $1,400 or so), but keep in mind that those models use standard 7750 movements, whereas the BTR uses a very nice Lemania-based movement that is exclusive to Ebel and the Breguet Type XX.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "bad." Is a refinished dial that bad? Does no one make good quality aftermarket 16520 dials and hands?

Are gen dials and hands the only options? Does anyone make nice rep parts for the EP movement?

How about getting a wrecked gen dial and getting it refinished by Kirk dial? Has anyone tried going that route?

I could never justify paying much more than $3k that for a Franken. I'd just pay the price for a gen and know that it will retain its value in the future.

Expect to drop around $5-6k on such build guys (when you want to go as gen as possible).

For it to make sense from my perspective, it would have to be done for half that amount. I would have no problem budgeting $1k for a donor movement and $700 for a case, so that would leave another $1k for dial, hands, pinions and labor. Am I completely out of the ballpark here?

I have no interest in mods to the appearance of the movement, and I could live with a rep bracelet, if that helps.

He supposedly has 2 different priced cases. One is $1450 and the other is $1650.

Wow. That's like 2-3 times the price I was expecting. Can't a gen case be had for little more than those prices?

I noticed that the jewelryandwatch.com site says "Provide us your Zenith movement Dial, Hands. We do conversion to 4030

and complete instalation to S.S case model 16520 perfect like factory."

Has anyone had this done by them? Do they do a nice job? Price?

Also, how much is their 16520 case set? There is no price on the site.

You can use a capecod to wipe it off but it would take some effort/time to do so depending on the strength of AR coating on the crystal.

Would the CapeCod cause any damage to the rubber or ceramic parts?

Is there a more effective product I should use instead?

Just got a watch that arrived with loads of scratches in the AR coating. The only option is to remove the coating until I can get a new crystal. What is the safest way to remove the coating while the crystal is still in the watch, considering that are ceramic and rubber parts in close proximity to the crystal? Obviously, I don't want to use a chemical that might damage the adjacent parts.

Just ask your dealer if they can source a set of rep Mark XV hands for you. The rep uses the 2824 movement, so they should work fine for you. You can easily paint the silver seconds hand white.

I actually tried that watch on at the Movado factory outlet store on Saturday. They were having a 70% off sale on all Ebel watches in stock. That one was marked down to somewhere around $2200 from near $6900 but I was looking for the 1911 Discovery model which they didn't have. What a beauty.

jjenk,

I was in exactly the same position as you two years ago. I was in the Outlet store with the BTR on my wrist for $2,200. I didn't buy it only because it was on strap rather than bracelet. Was the one you tried on strap or bracelet for that price?

If you don't mind, please PM me the location of the outlet store where you saw it.

I have one of these. The bracelet fell apart when I was sizing it. The sides of some of the permanent links just loosened up and the whole thing crumbled. Dealer provided a replacement bracelet and that one fell apart too. Luckily, I was able to kludge the two of them together to make one full bracelet. Now I'm scared to wear it because I don't know if it will fall apart on my wrist. Have you guys noticed any issues with your bracelets?

The clasp on my (Ultimate high beat) Concord C1 no longer stays closed. It won't hold any longer and just pops open on the wrist if you brush up against it.

I'm told this was a common problem on the C1? Has anyone found a solution?

Also, is the clasp on one version of the C1 rep better than others? Perhaps the clasp that comes from the low beat factory doesn't have this problem? If I have to buy a replacement, I may as well get the best version. Does anyone know?

I just turned mine into an Old Navi with a gen dial and custom datewheel. FYI, my local watch guy told me the dial had to be shaved a bit to fit the case.

My A21J Sinn had the same problem, but it was very bad. The seconds hand often appeared to stop for 5 seconds or so, then catch up. What The Zigmeister says makes perfect sense. I did send mine back to the dealer for service and he "serviced" it - whatever that means. It came back much better, but still some of the jumpiness. He probably did exactly what The Zigmeister recommends (i.e. lubing the tension spring). My advice is to go for the 2824 and avoid the problem.

I just got a similar Graham myself. Mine is the standard V2 Diver (no PVD). The lever is a bit sharp scrapes my arm, but I'm getting used to it.

My trigger is a bit loose too. Is there a tutorial somewhere for this washer mod???

My bezel is also a bit loose. I read somewhere that it can be removed and tightened. Anyone know exactly how???