PaneraiFan315

Those are gorgeous pics. Thanks for sharing. It's been almost close to 100 in L.A. last few weeks. Could have used some snow...

Having read this thread through... I just got to say ..." I dont know what to say!"

Just dumbfounded completely dumbfounded !

Lol. Yeah, it's Deja vu. New person ask for advice on how to resolve an issue. 100% of the members say do not initiate PP dispute. What does new person do? Digs in and files PP dispute anyways. I know he hasn't yet, but I am betting he will.

It's like watching the same movie over and over again.

Guys I was only looking for advice just incase things didn't go the way it should be handled. I emailed the dealer like a respectable person would. He offered a solution based on my first email to him. But never gave me any instructions or shipping information. So I am simply waiting. He gets 1 week. But knowing the dealers on this forum that shouldn't be a problem. Yes im out 320 bucks but i Didnt spend my life savings on it. Settle down People.

You've asked for advise and you were given it. Please take it. Nothing personal and I could be wrong, but my observation is that you don't seem to be getting what everyone is telling you. Be patient and work with the dealers and moderators to resolve your issues.

I know post-sales communication in this hobby sucks ass. Vendors seem more interested in getting your money (shocking I know) But you have to be patient. I am also frustrated by the slow communication after I pay for my item/service but it is what it is. In any other legal business you are in the right concerning your expectations, but this is an entirely different animal. You have to adjust your expectations and rely on other more experienced members on how to resolve issues such as this.

Hey Jkay,

I am sure gasebah will speak for himself when he gets the chance, but I sort of see his point that it is unrealistic to completely disregard the attraction a certain brand provides. I don't quite buy the whole 'love for classical mechanical machines' when in fact the rep movements are nothing that resembles the in-house movements of the major brands. Or perhaps I have taken this out of context?

I agree with you that people got into this hobby for many different reasons. My interest was first piqued by an Internet popup ad that showed a Panerai and I thought "ohhh... me likey"...

Not sure anyone is saying here that there are only one or two archetypal rep collectors mate...certainly not what I read here.. but there is a big difference between these D-bags as you put it.... one is a D-bag .. who not only wants to show off but also wants to con you ... now whether that con is just in how much he pretends to be worth or to con you in how much he spends on a watch...... he is just a con .. to himself and those around him...

The other D-bag is just a D-bag...with money...

Or a successful con man :)

Agree that no one has said there are only a few stereotypes of rep owners in this thread. My comment wasn't meant to reject the hypothetical argument, it is just a BROAD and obvious statement that there are variety of people and personalties that is the rep population. I apologize if my earlier post wasn't clear.

Concerning the hey-look-at-me D-bags, it doesn't matter to me what their motivations are on why they are such attention-seeking whores, they are annoying and need to be culled!

My thought is there isn't really one or two archtype of rep owners. Sure there are d-bags who buys replicas of prestigous brands to show off, but then what is the difference between a d-bag who buys gens for that same purpose? On the other end of the scale, there are people who likes watches and appreciate what the replicate represents; and at rep prices can acquire a lot more than they otherwise would with gens.

As for myself, it is hard for me to justify why I like the rep watches the way I do. I can go on about a brand's history and pedigree and how much I admire that company's history and horological innovactions, until I stop and tell myself what I am wearing does not represent any of them since they are fake. I sometimes refer my reps as "toys" instead of Panerai, Omega and Franck Muller because they are not Pams, etc. The answer I come to is that I simply like my watches as they are aesthetically pleasing to me, not for the brand, history, etc because then I am only lying to myself. As an aside, I also realize 6 months into this hobby, I spent close to 3,000 in straps, mods and watches. At this rate I could have gotten a used genuine in another 6 months!

As for the OP's original question, my guess is that rep owners dislike rep owners for the simple fact rep owners acquire something they know is not genuine. Fair or not, this implies a certain degree of dishonesty. One can view acquiring reps and passing them off as gens is another "short cut" in life. Owning genuine watches suggests the owner had reached certain achievements in life and the very existence of replicas cheapens that sense of accomplishment.

Just sharing my simple view of the world...

Thanks to everyone for your replies. The watch I am thinking about buying is from Andrew's site. It's one of his better reps and costs $358. I can understand why the Euro-makers are getting nervous. It appears the quality is outstanding, shockingly good in fact. The watch's durability and longevity will have to be tested with years of ownership though. On Andrew's page, it says "Waterproof to 30m... Pressure Tested at Factory Level." I wonder if it's truly waterproof. Imagine I am at a swimming pool and it becomes waterlogged. Here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/ROLEXP2033

The UK Customs, I live in So. Cal. BTW, does seem to be clamping down. Here is a new example:

http://www.rwg.cc/to...re/page__st__60

The reason why I am even posting the above questions is because, when I visited Andrew's previous site, I was redirected to a legal form instead:

http://www.yourtrustytime.com/

That form is from a Florida court. I just don't want to get burned for $358, that's all. What does Noob mean?

-Concerning your questions about the water resistance of a rep, I think you should have them independently sealed and water tested if you are going to swim with them (cost should be around $40). One of the modders, PBDad may be able to help and he is in So Cal as well. I have used him and his products have met my expectations.

-I think the customs issues other members are talking about are in the UK. I am not aware there is an issue in the states. I personally have not had any problems. My watches go into customs and released in about a day. My last two orders arrive in 5 days from approval of QC pictures to watch in hand.

-The legal form you are referring to is pretty common occurence when replica sites are seized, and for most purposes should be disregarded. Others who are more knowledgeable may want to confirm or reject my statement.

-"Noob" refers to one of the major factories in China that produces these replica watches. Until recently, it is considered the top one or the two of the major factories. The other is the "H factory". Noob seems to be experiencing some quality control issues recently if I am reading the feedbacks correctly. I personally think my PAM127 from Noob is incredibly good from a quality and finish perspective.

-You should be in good hands with Andrew. Just send him an email asking if he will replace a watch in the event it got tagged by customs. He will probably respond in 15 minutes. I get the impression he has an army of clones answering emails all named "Andrew".

All that said, the watch you are interested in is a brand I have zero knowledge in. You may want post your questions and concerns regarding that model in the Rolex forum where experts can chime in so you can have a good buying experience.

Just from my own research into the matter, it is not illegal to buy and own reps. Customs may be an issue, although there is theoretically a very remote chance of them seizing your reps. I purchased 5 so far and I don't even consider customs as an issue at this point.

If your watch does get seized by customs, your TD will send you out another free. Although you may want to confirm that policy depending on the dealer.

I have used Trusty and Toro and they are both great at getting the job done. If this is your first time, you may want to use Trusty since he has great customer service and his response time is unreal.

Toro is a no-nonsense pro plus he has access to Noob stock.

Btw- Andrew's site is http://ttw168.com/

Free feel to PM me for any add'l questions.

Looking forward to read about your first-hand impressions on this watch. Wasn't really attracted to Breitlings until recently...may hop on the Ling bandwagon with the Seawolf...

@Teejay and @Muttsta

You guys, plus many others, make valid points that are well worded and are not difficult to follow. But Nils just...doesn't...get...it....and possibly never will.

I do not see this ending well for our well-educated soon to be ex-member...

And you tried to sell this exact bag over there from what I see

OP implied that he is an educated person earlier in this thread...His actions and thought process does not seem to be consistent with this claim...

What the hell is going on here? Am I still being accused of something I didn't do? Yes I filed a PP dispute as I explained allready, but as I said yesterday I want and i'm willing to solve this issue in a proper way! PM'ing Ken right now.

Proper way = give me my money back and I will return the man purse...

You can try to massage the truth here but honestly you should own this. Everybody has buyers remorse eventually. Real men know how to own it.

Bottom line.

Now I will start reading the rest of the post etc and contact Ken. It's pretty lame that every one is flaming at me and backing up Mr Ken tho....

Did you file a PP dispute?

Whoa! Easy there LegendKiller... Not sure, but I think his "not man enough" response was tongue-in-cheek and was playing off your ladies wrist comment, which I also took as light hearted in nature....

I thought the OP was being ironic with the diamond watch, but if I am mistaken, I meant no offense...

Lost all respect for OP. Clearly this is buyer's remorse and Nils is looking to clear his conscious by perpetuating this farce of a thread. Shame on this cowardly action.

Can we edit this thread title to read "Issue with Nils (punk)?"

uh oh here they come Dutch...But I think you were expecting that... I have to say you have big balls my friend!

White watches with diamonds aren't really my thing, but I appreciate your own sense of style. Now I hope you won't show us your Ed Hardy T-shirts...

As whoever previously wrote, the BBQ looks delicious!

Peace.

All I can say is that it's 10 days later and Mr. KB still didn't reply. I found this inappropriate and suspicious timing wise. Most of you can keep on backing him up by telling me to wait but I'm done with it. I will never buy from him again and I definitely don't recommend KB to other members or what ever. His post that he will be gone until 13-08 is also crap to me because as u can see its the 17th today and he still didn't show up.

I wanted to solve this issue in the proper way but apparently that's no option so I will take care of this on another way.

It's very obvious to me that the mods/admins or what ever don't really care about this issue because I was told to get a "life"

Anyway guys, good luck with buying from KB and for some of you keep on defending ur friend....

I really don't want to give this thread any more legs since I thought most questions were answered, but I have a few thoughts:

1. I believe in answer to your question about how much time KB needs, a member suggests that 2 weeks is the appropriate timeframe to start getting concern and make this matter public. Presumably this is in fairness to people that needs a break for whatever reason.

2. My observation is that your experience is unusual and maybe you should give KB some slack. My conclusion is from the simple fact that the dollar amount in question is less than $500 and it does not make sense to me that someone who has been around this long will engage such questionable business practice for that amount. A new vendor perhaps, but not someone with KB's history. I cannot say with 100% conviction, but I think something is going on that is causing KB to be silent.

3. Lastly, what do you mean when you wrote "apparently that's no option so I will take care of this on another way"? I hope I am wrong when I infer that a Paypal dispute is coming. This is BAD for everyone and you will not have any supporters if you go this route.

Received the watch earlier this week, but I couldn't get the freaking strap back on! Arrggh! I am such a ! Anyways here are a couple pictures for now to show the lume and the double AR. Thanks for the great job PB! Looking foward to the PO next week.

Don't have kids yet, but my heart goes out to you and your family. Stay strong...

^{Guys, thanks for the input and thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that KB is a solid guy and this is just a misunderstanding. Hopefully, others will benefit from this thread. I am confident this issue will get resolved offline.}

^{My personal last thoughts about Carl's comment is this: Sometimes the appearance and not the actual of conflict of interest can be harmful. People are going to have to make their own determinations...Myself, I would have no issues buying from KB.}

^{Now, let's back to scoring some sweet watches!}

No, it suggests a long contribution to this forum and the experience to know that a PM not being answered over a weekend when KB has clearly stated he will be away (easy to check with a simple search function or just to go actually look in his section) does NOT mean "the line of communication went cold".All of us have been noobs once and we had to learn somehow. By just reading the forum is enough to know that making a PUBLIC complaint without merit is frown upon. It's fine to be a noob but if you don't understand how this business works I'd suggest to read, ask questions and learn before going around getting worked up about nothing. Don't go buy a bunch of items and freak out because you don't know how things work.

@txcollector Just so there is no misunderstanding here, my comment about the 10,000 posts was to illustrate that 1) trying to resolve an issue, as inappropriate as others may view the frequency of the efforts, do not necessarily equate to a person not having a life and 2) that being the subject of an unfair personal attack is pretty crappy. And btw- to freddy333 I do sincerely apologize for that comment. It seemed a little out of character based on your posts and I get the impression you are a standup guy.

I can clearly see from reading the forum that anyone making a public complaint is shouted down by multiple members. And my response is "Why?" I await to be illuminated by this thought process. If someone has an unsatisifactory experience shouldn't he get to share this as long as it has merit and is fact-based? By re-reading this thread, I think that was his intentions at first. When told that his expectations about the response time was too high and was advised to wait out a few days he got a little fired up, which IMO was a mistake.

Also, I get the impression that KB's shutdown should be public knowledge. At the risk of embarassing myself, I did not know about KB's email until redwatch posted the link. Like I wrote earlier, the facts are that KB had a legitimate reason for his absence. I don't blame KB for that. He has stuff to take care of. Period. That said, I also don't blame the OP for not knowing about KB's post.

OP started this thread asking for help and the majority of the people helped him by telling him that he needs to be more patient and that KB is out. Mission accomplished. My concern is these types of threads are sometimes populated with what I view to be condensing comments. This may give the perception that this "business" is closely run by people who is looking to intimidate people from sharing their feedback. I am not sure, but that cannot be good.

I will not speak for KB or any other vendors here, but as a businessman, I respectfully do not share your sentiment that my clients "do not buy a bunch of items and freak out because you don't know how things work". It is unthinkable to me that I turn away business. It is up to me to make sure I give my clients a quality experience and to educate them about my area of expertise. Part of that is to manage their expectations and keep the line of communication open. If I have an emergency and I am off the radar, then I hope the relationship I have developed with my client will provide me the opportunity to fix the issue.

Hmmm...328 sounds more like in my neighborhood. I think I'll check that bad boy out, although I have read that the A7750 may not be the most reliable movement available...need to do some more research...Thanks for the heads up Cap!

As has been said already, it has only been a few days & the best way NOT to receive a response is to do exactly what you are doing. If, after 2 weeks, you have not received a response, then that is the time to start posting public complaints (& spamming admins with your already posted complaints).

It is rare for me to say this, especially to a new member, but get a grip & get a life.

This comment seems harsh and inappropriate IMO. The OP clearly perceives there was a problem that could not be resolved with KB. One can argue that he should be more patient given the reputation and goodwill that KB has earned on this forum, but I am not sure his posts warrant a personal attack. I also don't exactly understand the connection between trying to resolve an issue and not having a life. I think having over 10,000 post on an Internet forum for fake watches better suggests a lack of said life among other things. Does this comment also imply other members who love watches and spend a lot of time on forums such as this have no life?

Perhaps the fact that the line of communication went cold as soon as there was a problem may cause the OP's concern. I don't have a dog in this fight, but one or two of the responses seem one-sided and over reactionary. I think it is important that certain issues like this gets discussed openly so that other newbies who encounter similar situation can learn from the OP's experience. If anything, the facts turn out that KB had a legitimate reason for not returning the emails and PMs. So in the end this thread saved KB a lot of potentially unnecessary emails and the OP and other new members have gotten feedback on how to resolve their conflicts with the TDs.

Now that is one beautiful watch sir. Almost had me hooked until I saw the price...

Enjoy it and wear it in good health.