bruce79

So let’s see if we can’t demystify this modification to the Rolex submariner rep that probably is more discussed/inquired about than any other mod…with the exception of crown guards…the bezel insert. To begin, we all should understand and accept the fact that no genuine, oem, factory original, or decent aftermarket bezel insert will go into a standard Rolex Submariner replica without some modification. Now when I say standard, I mean all models except MBW VINTAGE models, which, though I’ve never owned one, apparently will take all of the above listed inserts with no modifications at all. Must be nice ☺. But if you have any of the modern subs from any of the dealers, cn or tw, and including MBW…you will need to modify you’re insert, trust me. I’ll be demonstrating on my tw classic sub. So let’s get started. Here is a pic of the sub before. Now the insert in there is actually an aftermarket insert that I modded sometime ago. Recently Rob lumed the pearl to match the hour markers on my gen dial which has taken on a nice patina. Problem was the texture of the lume was too grainy and flat so I added a dab of craftsman glue to add shine and gloss. The result was decent and it actually looked like a 20-year-old pearl. I will be keeping this for when the pearl falls out of my oem insert…I’m sure it will. Now here is the factory original insert that I will installing. I’m pretty sure it’s a factory reject meaning it didn’t meet certain requirements. If you look closely, the lume in the pearl is uneven and is more to one side than the other, it didn’t set right I guess. It’s certainly not visible unless you’re a few inches away. Now when you flip this insert over you see that it’s in fact pretty thick and sturdy. You can see where I used the dremel to scrape away a little of the black paint that covers the insert. As it is, these inserts are too thick to be inserted into our bezels which is why the under part here needs to be sanded down considerably to fit our shallow bezels. Ok, here is a pic of our friend, Mr. Dremel. It’s actually a Sears Craftsman rotary tool but dremel is sort of a generic term to mean all rotary tools. You can pick them up for as cheap as $20. You will get to know this tool very well. Oh yeah, be sure to wear protective eye wear as there will be little pieces of metal flying at your face and you’d hate to catch one of these in you eye. I wore a cheap pair of my fiancé’s sunglasses…there will be no pics of that though. lol Ok, so popping the bezel insert is pretty simple. Take the bracelet off. Then use a small screwdriver to pry the bezel insert off. If you do it like the picture I’m showing, be sure to protect the lug. I actually didn’t do it this way…I pried it off towards the center between the 2 lugs. At any rate, it should come off with relative ease. Once off, assuming the existing insert wasn’t welded onto the bezel, it should just pry up with light pressure from your fingers. If not, try adding a little heat from a hair dryer or something. The dried glue will need to be cleaned off of the bezel, warm water, soap, and a small screwdriver should do the trick. Here is a picture of the old insert I modded and the bezel. Note how much metal actually needs to be sanded away. Yikes So let’s get to sanding. I take the dremel and hold it like so. It should be held like a pencil for better handling. It’s best to take a look at your bezel and try to mimic that shape where the insert will sit…it’s curved. Here is the first layer taken off the flat portion of the insert. There is still so much more to take off… Now at some point the sides of the insert will need to be taken in too to fit the bezel. The bezel on the gen subs is a touch wider than our reps, thus the inserts are wider too. Now some might create some way to do this faster or more time efficient but I like to do it by hand with very fine grit sand paper…when you’re dealing with a gen insert, trust me you don’t want to f*ck it up. Take small amounts off and test it in the bezel several times. I do the sides of the insert about ½ way though sanding the insert. The insert needs to be able to sit low enough in the bezel so that the sides insert can somewhat fit within the bezel. So sanding the sides is done with light rounded strokes covering about a 1/3 to a ½ of the outer side of the insert. This is a tedious mod and sanding down the insert takes time and patience. Plan on spending about 1 to 2 hours if you want to get it right. When it’s done, you will know because the insert will sit just at or just below the lip of the bezel and the insert will just fit within the walls of the bezel. If you sand the sides of the bezel too much or unevenly, you’ll end up with a marginal finished product. Take your time. The finished modded insert will be very fragile and light and if not handled with care, will bend and pretty much ruin you day. Be careful with it. Almost done…now it’s time to glue the insert to the bezel. Now I tried 3 times to glue the insert to the bezel before putting the bezel back on the sub and all 3 times the insert popped off when I tried installing the bezel on the sub. Not saying it can be done but with my barbaric methods, I had trouble. So what I did was glue it after the bezel was on the sub. I used 5-minute epoxy which allowed me to handle the parts for a few minutes before the glue set. Pop the insert onto the sub…I used the top of a vitamin bottle that was just smaller than the circumference, put the cap on top of the bezel and pressed done firmly with the palm of my hand. Once on, glue must be applied to the bezel and to the insert. Be careful not to put too much glue on to the point that it gets into the inner workings of the bezel mech as you’ll end up with a stuck bezel. I use a toothpick. Then press the two together and quickly align the pearl with the 12 o’clock marker before the glue sets. After, press evenly and firmly on the insert so it will set with all sides firmly under the lip of the bezel. Don’t worry if a little glue comes out and gets on the insert, bezel, and crystal. Try and minimize this but it can be taken off with a little vodka and a Qtip. On one of my 1st attempts, I had glue all over the place and was freaking out but I managed to get it all off. And the finished product. Ok, now I know that was long but hopefully it will inspire/help those who need it. After all that, I think I like the old insert better as the old pearl matches the dial and hands better...more vintage looking. This new oem pearl glows like a torch and the green glowing lume of the pearl really doesn’t go with the cream patina hour markers and hands...that don't glow at all... but oh well, I can live with it. Thanks for reading. ☺

thanks for all of the great feedback. I didn't really use any technical terms because I don't know any of them. glad you guys like it.

Here is a dyi tutorial for replacing a stock pam crown with an aftermarket crown from palpatine. As I am not really mechanically inclined when it comes to watches, hopefully this will be helpful for members such as myself. Lets get started... Here is the stock crown that came on my 112h from Josh... After removing the crown guard by unscrewing the 2 screws securing it to the case, I placed palps crown on top of the stock crown for a comparison shot. The stock crown is not that bad but there is definitely a difference... Now it's time to remove the case back...now this may make some true watchsmiths like Rob cringe lol but the only tools related to watches that I own are a set of screw drivers, a dremel, and a 10x...so for the case back, a piece of heavy duty packing tape did the job for me... So after removing the case back, we need to release the stem/crown from the movement. This is done by slowly and carefully unscrewing the little screw to the right of the 'swiss' marking on the movement (at the portion of the movement closest to you). Now all the experts here tell us to do this slow and that's what I did. I turned it 1/2 turns while slowly pulling on the crown until it came free. Here is the crown/stem...out of the movement. Removing the stem from the crown should be easy as it just needs to be unscrewed but with my luck it wasn't that easy. It was recommended that I heat the bottom of the crown so as to loosen the glue holding the stem into the crown so that's what I did...put it in a frying pan for about a minute or two. Then slowy unscrewed it. The stem is a very delicate piece and my hands are rather big so I went extra slow so as to not bend anything. Here is the stem removed from the crown... Here are the two crowns side by side. Note the little rubber gasket that I moved from the old crown to the new one... Now the stem should just screw into the new crown and then just repeat in reverse order the steps listed above. But once again, with my luck this was not the case. See all that glue stuck to the stem threadings? This needs to be cleaned off before trying to screw the stem into the new crown. But in my case the stem still wouldn't go in. I didn't want to force it and risk cross threading the crown and stem. So I asked some fellow members for suggestions. It turns out the tip of the stem needed to be sanded down as there were some jagged edges that prevented the stem from getting a good start in the crown. It also turned out that, as might be the case with crowns from palp, the stem needs to be shortened so the crown sits closer to the case. So I sanded the stem down...without really realizing it, I went to the shortest possible point any further and the stem would be too short and the crown wouldn't fully close. Of course this can be remedied by not screwing the stem in all the way. At any rate, with the help of a little WD40 (needs to be comletely washed off the stem before putting it back into the movement) the stem went into the new crown. So after washing the WD40 off and comletely drying the stem, I put a little crazy glue on it and screwed it into the new crown... After the glue on the stem has set into the new crown, it's inserted back into the movement. Don't force the stem if it doesn't go in at first. I think Rob recommends gently twisting it CCW while gently pushing in. Once in, carefully screw the stem release screw back in to secure the crown. Then screw the case back on. The crown guard lever will need to be sanded down as the crown sits out further than the stock crown did. Be careful when doing this for if you remove too much of the lever, you'll end up with a loose lever...and there's nothing worse. I used a cutting/sanding wheel and a dremel...Do a little bit at a time and check it often...this is the finished product....hope this helps.

bad angle for a domed crystal, lets stop f'in around and take some real pics

After removing the stem from the old crown, there was tons of glue all crusted in the threadings. I soaked it in hot soapy water and brushed it clean. Then I used my dremel and cutting wheel to sand it down a bit and clean up the sides of the tip. I went a little overboard though, if I'd sanded it any more it would be too short. I sprayed a little WD40 on the threading and it went in I forgot to glue it though and I could only set the time going forward I need to glue it when I get home from work. I wiped the WD40 off the stem really well but do you recommend soaking it in soapy water again and drying it really well before installing it for good? Thanks

got it I used a dremel with a cutting wheel to sand it down a bit. Any more and it would have been too short. I'll post a full tutorial for novices like myself

wow, ok. so not many of you prefer the 24/22. I've really only owned one 24/22 and I must say it was super comfortable...my 24/24s have all been great too though. I just like the tapered look of the 24/22 I guess. I think it looks a touch more dressy. Where as the 24/24 seems a bit more sporty. try don

might you answer for me this quick question, I just received my new thicker crown from palp and am having trouble fitting the stem from my joshua 112h to it. Is there a trick to this or could it be that the threadings may not be lining up. The stem won't screw into the new crown and I don't want to force it and cross the threads. Thanks

ok, well I'll try smoothing out the tip surface of the stem. I just don't want to cross thread the crown

just like to know what our members prefer on their pams. I myself have mostly owned 24/24 but for some reason have taken a liking to 24/22. Please share.

ok, so perhaps I attempted this too late as it is well past midnight pst, but everything was going smooth...got the crown/stem out of the movement fine, removed the stem from the old crown after applying a little heat. But when I went to insert the stem into palps crown, the threading doesn't appear to line up . I didn't want to force it so as to cross the threading but I gently tried several times to get it and couldn't...what do I do now? Has this happened to anyone else? The 112h came from Josh and is fairly new (couple months old I think). Any suggestions? I'll try contacting palp to see if he has a stem that will fit his crowns but any suggestions in the mean time would be much appreciated. Thanks

this is for a tw case with the lug holes drilled to accept 1.2 bars. they should't have the little stoppers on the end. There are a few places on ebay but I'd thought I'd ask here first to see if you guys had any shops you like to buy from.

I was wondering if anyone had a good/reliable source for 20mm spring bars for subs. The 2mm/1.2mm bars. I placed an order with ofrei last Wednesday only to be told today that they are out of stock and won't have any for another 2 weeks. Shoot me a pm if you'd like. Thanks

my modest sub

So it sounds as though the stem doesn't really play a role in the mechanics of the watch of ther than winding the watch and setting the time. So the movement won't explode if I remove the crown while it's still running? I think I'll take photos of my attempt to replace the crown, if I can do it, anyone can.

do you have an answer for my questions?

This may be a stupid question but I should probably wait for my manual wind 6497 movement to fully stop (run out of power reserve) before removing the crown...since there is no hack function? Just received my crown today but wound the watch fully last night...do I have another day or 2 before I can attempt this???

My sentiments exactly, I can't tell you how many times I ordered a strap based on the dealers pictures only to be let down when the finish and color of the strap looks nothing like the picture. It's better, IMO, to take photographs out of a lightbox to give a better indication as to what it will look like under natural lighting. Of course, lightbox photos are more proffesional and I understand why they are used but I guess thats why I created this thread. I know our fellow members own just about everything...so please post pics Yeah I'm looking for something with more of a shine too. Perhaps not a cordovan but something other than the distressed look. That's why I like the MF Vacchetta light brown...it looks to be somewhere in the middle but has a very distinguished, classy look.

craigslist has long been a showcase for such [censored]...

Apparently the straps V is offering right now only come in reg. length, I need long. With respect to thickness, I like thick straps but not too thick. There was some debate a while back about MF straps not being thick enough, only 3mm-4mm. The Toscana I have now is 5mm and is plenty thick for me but I'd like to keep it between 4mm-5mm. Anythink more and it seems like it'd be too bulky, the Crazy Horse is a beautiful strap but might be too thick for my taste. And I have 8.5" wrist. The first Europelli I had was probably around 3.5-4mm and worked well with the 111 I had it on.

Now that I have aquired my last pam, 112h , I need a fitting strap to compliment it. I've owned a few straps (couple of Europellis & several TCs) over the last year or so but haven't really had one that I absolutely loved. I only plan on having one so I really want to get a good, quality strap. I've been doing some researching and browsing and have really taken a liking to Manifatture Firenze straps, in particular the Vacchetta Light Brown Calf. I think it's a very classic looking strap, quality, and pretty reasonable $$$wise. Any thoughts? Also, what are your thoughts on 24/24 vs. 24/22? I don't have a preference but don't really know if one is more historically correct than the other. The first strap I owned was a 24/22 Europelli brown distressed calf strap and it has been my favorite...rich smell, soft & comfortable, great patina. At any rate, I'm looking for a good strap up to about $150. Any suggestioins? Pics would be superb thanks Edit::: changed title so as to welcome suggestions for all straps.

very nice, I received mine a few days ago. I wiped it down with a little baseball glove oil and it's taken on a nice rich dk distressed tan color. My fiancè really digs it and she never like any of my straps.

I haven't seen them personally but I've heard that it's just the pearl, not the metal surroundings.

Hi and welcome to the forum. These are all very good questions....at least you have started doing some reading and this a great start. No cgs are perfect on any of these models and they all could use some modding. Yes the cgs on a seadweller are just as bad but it has so many other bigger flaws that can't be changed, cgs are the least of its worries. With regards to dial size, perhaps pm some of the rolex experts for that one. Just do some reading in the Rolex photo gallery and perhaps you'll even find what you're looking for. I'd measure my gen dial for you but it's already in my watch. at any rate, welcome and good luck with your search.

yeah trc is a good board but not as active as here. welcome and enjoy.