RWG Technical

My experience with this identical situation in the past, the dealer replaced the movement with a new one, and sent it to my location for installation. This has been done many times, but it all depends on the dealer in question...you may want to request a replacement movement to avoid any problems down the road. If that doesn't work, I have sources for this movement, so far they have all been surplus, but new surplus, not worn out. I think my supplier is in the $120 range for this model, some other suppliers (Cousins in the UK) may sell for less. Try the dealer first, as long as they dont' want it returned to their watchmaker instead of replacing the movement (especially now that it's been lumed etc...) Rg

I'll let you know if there are any problems on email. RG

I never wear anything on my hands when working on watches, too risky for slippage, and lint is always a problem. Today's springs are not prone to rust like the old ones were...I have never had any problems with hand winding. RG

There a numerous "factories" for movements as well, it's the only way I can explain the differences in the Asian movements I see. The number of permutations and variations I see in identical movement models (7750 for example) continues to astound me. I am not talking about slight variations, but totally different movements, some with more, some with less jewels than others etc... As for the watches themselves, many identical looking models, once taken apart, are totally different,...case design, pushers, spacer ring material and type, crystals, etc... the more I see, the more I am convinced that there is nothing the same anymore. As for the "Surplus" movements from ETA, this is not something new, it's been like this for a long time, as long as I can remember. Some movements are newer, but I would say a large percentage of those sent in for service are surplus and used. Not sure if I see these used ones more due to the fact they tend to fail, or give the owners problems, or if it's just an indication of how many are actually out there. There is no question in my mind that these are all surplus movements, some just happen to be "new" surplus, and others are "used" surplus. But surplus they are, no one is going to pay $200 for a factory sealed ETA 2836-2, not in a $188 rollie... It would be interesting to take say 10 reps of a certain model, all bought at the same time from the same dealer, and examine each one in detail, I bet the variation in movement quality would run from "pristine" to "well used"... This particular one here, after the mainspring and barrel replacement, quit running after an hour...took the balance and pallet out, double checked everything, re-assembled, and it was still working this morning...let's hope it continues to run, if it doesn't, there is only one fix, replace the complete movement. It's clean, oiled, adjusted etc, if it won't run after this, it's all worn out and not repairable. RG

Good idea, I only wind by hand just enough to get it going, set the date and time, and put it on my wrist. A number of Asian 7750's come like this, with a sticky click wheel, and a lot of resistance while hand winding. I have seen some hand wound so hard by their owners, that the transfer gear (the one between the autowinder and the mainspring gear) was completely stripped of it's teeth...it's only brass afterall. But you have to really try to do this type of damage. Keep it to a minimum, and only slow and it should be fine. RG

The resistance you feel is probably not the mainspring, especially if the resistance is constant, ie it never changes as you wind the watch up. And when you feel very strong resistance, you have a problem with the movement. The resistance your feeling is the autowinder click wheel clutch arms grabbing and sticking in the autowinder bridge. Like any autowinding movement, it's not good to hand wind too much, the resistance your feeling will only get worse, and each time you wind, the clicks are getting damaged. Counter clockwise on the crown does nothing, the click you feel and hear is the sliding pinion and winding pinion gears slipping against each other. They have cooresponding sets of directional teeth that engage and lock the two gears to each other when you try to wind the watch (CW) and slip against each other when you turn the crown in the other direction (CCW). You are not winding the watch by turning the crown CCW, the only thing that takes place is the gears slip and wear out. It's not really necessary or needed to turn the crown this way, when I wind, I go forward only, not back and forth. RG

Great job, not so hard or "mysterious" after all to do these mods. Congrats on a job well done. RG

There is not a lot of resistance in the winding direction, but it should not spin freely in the winding direction, if it does there is a problem. If the rotor turns as you say after tilting the watch, then your click wheel is not working as it should. What is happening is that the click wheel (autowinding one) should lock and prevent the mainspring from releasing or feeding back into the rotor, when it slips, the mainsprping will unwind into the rotor and the rotor will turn. I have seen this numerous times, I correct it by gluing the click spring in place so it doesnt' unlock from the click wheel. Yes he is mistaken, unidirectional on the 7750, all of them... The resistance is slight to not noticeable on most 7750's, and there will be no audible "click click" as on a 2836, as this model has a smooth sided mainspring barrel, the 2836 has a notched barrel that makes the clicking sound. RG

You may have to replace the cannon pin and hour wheel, and the seconds wheel, to get the clearance you need. With the dial on the movement, the hour wheel post should stick up past the dial face, if it doesn't, then you need longer parts. I actually just did this mod on a few movements that were going to be used in this type of installation, all new minute, hour and seconds wheels...it was the only way to get the hands to clear the dial face. RG

On the 2836 or 2846 or 2892, I wind the mainspring in by hand, not with a tool. The 2671 I use my winder on (due to the small size), but that's about the only model that I actually use the tool on. Jules Borel has winders for sale. RG

No real way to tell, on this one (2824-2) if you wound it, instead of the "Click, Click" you hear as the barrel ratchets from full wind and the clutch releases, you would have heard a "ziiiipppp" sound, which is NOT normal... It was running fast, but that in itelf is not an indication of a problem, after all, it may only need adjusting... The 2671 was working "ok" but as you can see, look at the dirt under the crown wheel, and the crap on the pallet stones, how much more use before it was a write off. The only insurance is to service it on a regular basis, then you know for sure. But in your case, not a worry once you get the TZ course out of the way, and can do your own servicing . RG

.

Here is the mainspring barrel in question... See my post on surplus movements/lack of servicing for more details. RG

Hey Jeff, Well I am glad to hear that you did find some of the answers and information useful. Search engine I have no luck with either, even when trying to find a post I know I did up myself and some of the words I used in the title. From the detailed 7750 posts, with the chrono ON, the only thing that takes place is the tilting Pinion tilts over, and engages into the center seconds wheel, the center seconds wheel tab will tick a minute over on the 30 minute counter each revolution, and the brake lever on the 12 hour counter is released. That's all that happens, none of this will cause any more wear or stress on the movement, so leaving the chrono ON all the time is fine, as is leaving it off all the time. I prefer to leave it running as much as I can. Question 2, you should have gotten the info for, it's a uni directional winding, so no resistance in that direction, and it will spin freely. Just a quirk. As for the number of turns for a full wind, with the crown, you will feel the resistance go up when it's fully wound and bridle is slipping on the barrel sides of the mainspring. Probably 30 or so on a 7750 and 2836, 2892 is more like 70 turns... No idea on the number of rotor turns needed. Cheers, RG

Jules Borel is really good, especially once your registered and can browse the movement parts section. Cousins in the UK is good as well. As I have reported for almost two years, Bob Frei is an [censored], plain and simple, he phoned me at home to personally "Scold" me and "Educate" me on his business, how much he hates people that don't know how to order stuff, and just about everything else of his problems etc... I listened to his rant for an hour, it was funny as hell. The $15 charge to check if they have the parts in stock is normal, imagine going into home depot, asking "Where do you keep the gyprock screws" And getting this answer "We do have gyprock screws, but for us to tell you where they are, it will cost you $15..." How anyone who has a supply business, and can justify charging people to check if they have parts in stock, is beyond me...I hope the day comes when he has burned all his bridges and [censored] off everyone and goes [censored] up. After ordering $1000's of parts from Ofrei via email etc, this is the email response Bob sent to me, and I told him to go to hell...and have been spreading the word ever since to anyone who will listen, Ofrei STAY Away from them... BOB Frei's message to me, cut and paste. RG

www.rctritec.ch For real genuine Super Luminova RG

Don't tell me how much the parts cost, it make me nervous when I take them apart... That 68 year old Ladies Rolex that I just restored, is working again, I hope you like the results when it gets home. RG

I think you were dancing with the girls in your Avitar, and the heat lamp is just a cover up... RG

Super glue is bad, for anything on a watch... 5 minute epoxy, or GS Hypo cement (my favorite since it does not dissolve the dial paint and can come right off when dry). RG

Doubtful you can get enough torque with a suction one to loosen it... You should have a LG Openall caseback tool, it will open it, as well as ensure you can close it tight enough after the work. If you look in my How-To's, the rollie uncasing post shows this, as does the PAM crown one, and a few more, cost for the tool is $50 or so... RG

Thank god someone understands me, can I get you to call Jennifer and explain me to her?? I agree on the value/availibility of the movement vs servicing. But it will always be cheaper to clean than replace parts. Like a car, the cost of the parts individually is much more than a complete movement. As strange as it seems, the simple movements like the 6497 handwind, ends up on my bench a lot. Why should it fail? Mostly because it's a handwind and they seem to be more prone to problems due to lack of oil. The weakest link in any movement is the human to movement interface, the less you allow the owner to mess with the internals, the better off you are. In the case of a handwind, well you have to manuall wind it every day or so, and due to this action, combined with the lack of lube, they seem to fail quicker. A good cleaning, fresh oil, and they work perfect again. The majority of the problems are with the winding, not the actual movement timekeeping stuff... On the TZ course, great idea, shoot me a PM, I can help (wink, wink) with the "Ahem..." training material..."say no more..." if you catch my drift... RG

You might want to save and print the ones that interest you...the end of the ETA and general public is coming soon...once that happens, I think this information will not be available to anyone outside the SWATCH groupe. I have them all saved, and printed doubleside and in a binder for ref, great when you need parts. RG

I think they are the same, I thought I had replaced a 2824 with a 2892 in some watch a while back, and it was a straight fit and the datewheel looked fine... I can measure them tonight in the shop to confirm, shoot me a PM so I won't forget if you want the diameters. RG

Have a look here, many articles on what your looking for, but you have to be willing to put the time in and go through them and read. I spend hundred's of hours doing these posts up so the information is readily available as a resource to everyone, the answers you need are in there. For the chronograph questions, there is a 3-part series on the 7750 alone, explaining everything on the movement and how it works. The 7750 has been discussed, disected, and explained more than any other movement we have, both in my subforum, and also on the open board. Start at the top with the pinned glossary, basics, etc and move into the 7750 articles, the answeres are all in there. Everything you always wanted to know about movements, but were afraid to ask... RG

If the rotor turns while handwinding, it's due to sticky/damaged click wheels. The click wheels (2X) are one way sprag clutches, and when the rotor is winding the watch, one wheel locks while the other freewheels depending on the direction of the rotor. These wheels and the gear train from the rotor to the mainspring, is a gear reduction unit, ie many rotor turns, for one mainspring turn. When you handwind, your turning the mainspring directly, and this motion is amplified and sent up to the click wheels. If you do this fast, or a lot, or if the clicks are somewhat sticky, instead of freewheeling, one of them catches, and spins the rotor. It's supposed to freewheel and not spin the rotor. Also due to the fact this is a gear reduction unit designed to run one way (from the rotor down to the mainspring) when you handwind, you now have gear multiplication (from the mainspring up to the rotor), which causes the clicks to spin like mad, for a slight crown movement. Fix is to try and clean them in an ultrasonic bath, or replace them, and keep handwinding to a minimum, and only when needed. Question 2, the beat is out on the movement, the alignment between the balance, pallet, and escape wheel is off, which causes the escape wheel to lock on a pallet stone instead of self starting. All the winding in the world will not unlock the pallet stone, but moving the stone will unlock it and get it going, your moving the stone by moving the pallet, which rocks when you set the balance wheel in motion by tapping the case. You need a watch analyser to read and adjust the beat. RG