archibald

An absolute Tank of a watch. Mine has been my weekend work around the house watch for 3 1/2 years--absolutely beat to hell but still keeping great time. It is also pretty accurate except for one huge flaw--the gen has a date.

I asked the same question about the Black Magic...the answer was basically "we don't know why but we can't make it."

I thought there was a gen w/ the cheesy dudes. Maybe someone @ Panerai had a sudden flash of clarity, and that dealbreaking logo was removed from the production version.

If you could check for any montbrillant datora dials, I'd certainly be willing to pay top dollar...

You do? I'd bet that after about 15 minutes of doing some googling on the working conditions in the chinese factories making stuff you use every day, you won't. If regulation and enforcement are lacking, if organized labor and watchdog groups are non existant, and if the media is state run where's the risk?

And even the bezel and crystal can be verified 100% gen, IMO it has very little real value over modded rep parts since maybe 20 people on earth would be able to determine their genness when installed into a watch-- which is of course why they're for sale, w/ a healthy profit envisioned to be sure. If they were offered to me, I'd figure out how much complete jimmy cases and sapphire crystal set would go for (in the unlikely event they could ever sell consistently for $200 I may consider trading mine since I have 3 each still in paper and cling wrap) and add a few bucks for the time and money saved by not having to pay, wait and ship for the next AR run. Maybe $60 or $70.

Thanks for the clarification Avitt...knowing that the ebel uses a manufacture movement makes me want to buy a gen...and want the rep even less. If would be nice if the the rep makers would split the difference and do the new Discovery Chrono pictured in this month's IW, which has the BTR design, a cool orange bezel and looks like it's powered w/ a 7750.

Wow! great info on the gens Uncle Jay, and a fabulous lead on the rep front, S.!! Threads like this are what this board is all about!!

In my experience davidsen makes his cases to fit his dials and vice versa. Unless it was my turn to take one for the team, I'd certainly wait to see if someone succeeds in combining parts before I tried it.

IMO the jimmy case is the most valuable part of the trio. I doubt anyone could tell a gen bezel from a jimmy or even rep bezel, and only a very few hardcore paneristi could tell a chieftang single ARed rep sapphire crystal (worth about $60) from a gen. A jimmy case, however, is clearly different and more gen-like than a rep case. I'm sure there are many guys here who would pay in excess of $200 for this combo. I certainly wouldn't.

Fish, other than the crown being too close to the case (I think the rep crown has no lip on the underside like the gen) it's a near perfect 61.

Which bezel? Cyclops on crystal?

Plus, let's face it: aside from Jack, PVD isn't that expensive. Even if you figure your time @ minimum wage, by the time you learn how to do it, you won't save much and probably won't like the result. I'll be outsourcing the PVD on my new 28 and spending my time on projects that have a reasonable chance of success.

Sure. A few of my favs, not in order. Of course, like any PAM, reasonable mods--lume, DW, etc) are required. PAM 24A (needs bezel polish in addition to the usual) PAM 27A PAM 29B the old PAM 183 (needs the newer engraved movement swapped for the old one) The "cartel" logo base (will be damn near 1:1 when V's CG arrives) PAM 036 In fairness to DSN, I should say that if his dials were drop ins into "cartel" cases, some of them would be preferable to their dials. The trouble is that since davidsen doesn't want to sell a bunch of dials only, every single one I've tried needed some work to fit, and a couple couldn't be made to fit.

Even if we find a product that blackens like PVD only half the battle is over--we'd still be left w/ the bead balsting which provides at least half the look of the final PVD.

IMO it's yet another "coulda been great but turned out about average" watch offered by davidsen. I bet he sells hundreds.

That is true of all reps, and you can add .999% to the percentage of people on earth who wouldn't know a $100 asian 21J automatic PAM 005 from a gen. I always assume when people ask about specific versions they want to know about all the differences between the rep and the gen. To peepshow's list I would add that the crown is too close to the case and I bet the AR is the typical instant-tell rep AR.

The genuine is ceramic, which makes the rep a no go for me. But IMO it can only mean that the beautiful 287 is on the way!

I would say his Pre-V pieces are pretty accurate, but no DSN watch is in my personal top 10 list of most accurate PAMS.

As much as I admire Biver for turning half-interesting design and plain stock parts into a personal gold mine, I just don't see the Big Bang thing, rep or gen.

Another nice looking watch I'm to OCD-riddled to wear. Just can't do the reps of 2894 powered watches. The subdial spacing and pusher position will bug me every time I check the time and I will live in irrational terror that I'll run into some WIS who will embarass me in public. Judging by the "What's in the pipeline" thread there are at least 3 more reps of 2894 watches coming for all who don't mind the instatells.

Mcafee is giving me a security warning for that link....

Thank god for this site! I was abut to pull the trigger on the Lange below on the bay! Seriously, I'm with this guy in spirit, but he ought to get his homework done before he starts promoting the value of his cmparisons. Too bad the Cigar Afficionado writer didn't stumble upon Richard's site which is much better.

I think it's great that folks are happy w/ Jos and Andrew, but IMO, it's in out best interests collectors to support, at least w/ a portion of our business, Angus and other dealers not/no longer affiliated w/ the cartel.

That's what everyone says when I describe my job, but sadly it's without the exploding cars, or any drama at all actually. Just a lot of listening to people b*th about other people on the phone. Sometimes I get to go to The Palm, though.