archibald

King's looks like it may have both--but it's hard to tell about the M in her pics. Also, no worries if you accidentally drop hers into a glass of water. Anyway, every rep you ever buy will have at least one intentional flaw (choose your theory about why). If it's not on the dial, they'll screw up something on the case, or vice versa. That's why modding is 51% of the fun...

You could put it in that sweet PO you have, since that's the base movement of the gen. Or, if you don't want to swap for a swiss, I'd put it into a asian powered rep of a watch that uses the 2892. In my collection, this would be going into my ATF dive watch-- the Picot Le Plongeur (If you have one of those, you can probably also get an OEM dial from watchpol or whatever his name is.)

LOL! Ken, if you hadn't have said anything else, some dude in Nigeria might have gotten a free "I am super rich" Daytona.

I think the OP's overarching point is that the don't put the same attention to detail into dress watches that they put into Panerai's, rolexes, and IWC's, etc. They're getting better and there are lots of nice dress watch reps out there, but I would still love to see someone throw a "Perfect" Sub level of detail orientation ino a JLC for example...just to see what it would look like.

Not particularly. I think lucky's may have had the guards done, but I remember the dial about the same....LOL, they all do look the same after staring at them for 30 min anyway! @ ubi: Excellent work on the franken! A couple Q's: Would you have had to trim the insert on an MBW? Do you think my local smith (talented but no The Zigmeister) could get the OEM bezel to fit EL's sub, or is that a non-starter becuse of the case? If the OEM bezel fits it's a no brainer--throw it on the EL along w/ an OEM crown and tube, have the guards done, and that's it, probably with enough left over to try to source King's dial.

I hope nobody takes this post the wrong way, particularly MBW afficonados. No gratutitous bashing of MBW here--I'm just confused. I have to buy a new sub to replace the one my old man begged from me the last time he visited (a gorgeous TW best with joe's "works" package I bought from another member). Natch, the replacement is going to be either EL's "New Submariner" or an MBW. The MBW is $165 more than EL's, which I'd be perfectly happy to plunk down if I thought I was getting $165 worth of added accuracy, but I just don't see it. In fact, the marker @ 12 on the MBW looks seriously flawed, the rehaut looks no thicker, the "m's" don't line up, and the guards are not as good. Is there a weight, case-size, hand,bracelet, bezel, etc. issue I'm missing? Is the watch in the pics some outdated and/or grade "B" MBW? If the latest MBW's do take OEM parts like the old one, that's a huge plus, because I have an OEM bezel which I could not get to fit the old TW. But otherwise it seems to me the "mass market" reps have passed MBW by and a little catch-up is needed in Maria Land. My suggestion would be to combine the best parts of King's new CN sub w/ the best features of EL's...Then MBW would be on top again. A quck glance: The MBW is on the left.

I doubt that that's true. What is 100% BS, though, is their "it takes a year to make a rolex" schtick and the implication that they are hand made. This month's WT has this breathless expose about how they managed to penetrate Rolex's veil of secrecy (Rolex's PR shop is doing a nice job using their new building to get some nice press). The funny thing is that the writer oohs and ahs about all the robots and CNC machines (But...but..the robots look like people!!...sheesh) not about some old swiss watchmakers lovingly assembling each watch screw by screw. From what I gathered, aside from the last stage of case polishing and final assembly no human hands touch a rolex--even the parts are retrieved from their bins by robot arms. Rolex's technology is very cool but if you add all the steps the describe in the article together, it takes about 20 minutes to make a rolex...

It's marketing, pure and simple. Whic means it's BS, plaain and simple. Some Franck Muller watches are anything but swiss made yet have swiss made on the dial. A muller may have a russian movement, a crystal made in slovakia, and a strap made in austria. How can they put swiss made on it? Easy. They swap out the poljot rotor with a rep rotor made form 950 platinum--which means that more than 50% of the value of the parts become "swiss made." I bet that's why some high end watchmakers don't even bother to put Swiss Made on their watches (Journe puts invenit et fecit on his watches--he knows "Swiss Made" is a bunch of BS.

hally--the fact that DW wants vector graphics is very interesting. Do you happen to know what technology he uses to make his dials. I'd bet 100 bucks it's laser engraving--which BTW isn't engraving the way we think of it but rather ultra-shallow and inked engraving that is designed to look like printing, not literal engraving (The "laser engraving" on our metal watch parts we all hate is actually laser etching, a different process) If he does make his dials using laser engraving, it will be possible to have them made even if he doesn't take on this project--I've been told that laser engraving is fast becoming a common service offered by full service printers. The problem, of course, would be finding a shop willing to print a branded item. I just heard about yet another development in the cool world of printing media that might make it possible to produce dials literally "in house"--a medium that makes it possible to use any inkjet printer to simulate laser engraving. I'll post more when I investigate further...

Those are exactly the flaws that kruzer00 is referring to in his post. I bet he's right--the factory that made the original Daylights (which began as a special project for watchhonpo if i remember right) stopped making them. It stands to reason that the factory that took up production (and screwed up the cases) is the one making the 250 & 251--which also means that niether will see the light of day on my wrist. Not that we have any great power over any rep factories in china, but I see no reason for us to reward people who add flaws to reps to increase the profit they make from us.

I looked in vain for a used OEM or aftermarket TOG bezel for almost a year after buying Jos's excellent TT rep. Until someone puts out an aftermarket bezel (not an impossibility because seeing as they have aftermarket sub, daytona, and even santos 100 bezels in steel and gold) I think the best course of action is to just accept the flaw an move on.

Here's the front of the 224, in case, you know, any of the makers want to rep it...

A couple of bigger pics. The back shot is of a PAM0224 (essentially a Daylight w/ the blue dial), but the backs look almost identical:

Can't be the new version, or at least i hope it's not. In fact, judging from the OP font, the alignment pin issue, and the winding gears, I think this is the first version of the CDG movement with a swans neck put on. I bet the new version will use the plates, which is fine w/ me because then the alignment pins won't show, the font will likely be better, and the edges have a beveled look to them.

That would bug the [censored] out of me which, of course, means I've gone insane. Back when i had all of my marbles, days I would have told myself that 99% of the .0001% of the planet's population who know that Panerai is not some kind psuedo-italian sandwich would notice the still-shitty-after-10-versions crown guard before they notice the L swiss L.

Michael's a great guy...but a $1600 7750 to go behind a solid caseback? I don't think so.

My God, what a bunch of ninnies. They should spend more time over here if they want to be able to make sure they don't get duped into buying a rep--fifteen minutes over here and any of those guys would know what flaws to look for and spot a rep in 2 seconds like everybody else, as well as figure out that watch is a gen in a second and a half. Did the OP over there not ask them to crack the caseback if he had some concerns about the spaces between the letters and the dash?

I know this question has probably been asked and answered in one of the 57 Daylight threads, but I can't find it: Has it been determined if the latest Daylights' cases are more like the "new" crappy, light, and inaccurate 196/188cases or the "old" good, heavy, and accurate ones? This Cheap Ass ain't gonna shell out the cash for the the Swiss version if they finally fixed the "LUMINOR" problem w/o reverting to the better cases.

The mysterious ways of repmaker at work once again--two LV's released less than a week apart, with different improvements over previous models. If they would combine the best features of each they would come pretty damn close to actually building a damn near perfect LV. Of course they never will, and it's enough to drive an anal retentive nuts. I wonder if one of our accessories guys can source King's dial. I don't want to mention any names but his initials are Davidsenjpn.

Ups: The 40 mm rep cases, guards, backs, etc are very very close to OEM. The dial is the right color. The date font boldness looks good. The downs: The biggest flaw is the the unbrushed dial and undecorated subdial--an instant spot for anyone who knows the OEM. Mineral Glass. Date mag. Expect the brushing to not be as aggressive and well done as the OEM. Not bad for a $120 rep, but a no go for me. I'd fill my pants if I ever saw an accurate 120 dial in the case/crystal/movement combo they use for the 50/51 though. The blue dial/brushed case PAMS are the most beautiful of all of them.

Excellent post!! We'd all owe whoever owns a gen a great debt if they would take a minute to measure the OEM dial or at least teh inside diameter of the bezel. The feet should not be a problem at all since they should be in the smae location on the ETA powered PO. Speaking only for myself, the most glaring flaw on the watch is the the dial, and when you consider a gen cost 2 grand--an $650 rep (base watch +OEM hands, crown, clasp, and dial) would be so close that the gen seems like a waste of money, not the OEM dial and bezel. IMO, if the dial and bezel fit the rep, buying a gen would be like throwing $1400 down the tubes. But if the dial and bezel won't fit, the new modded LV is a much better buy for a dive watch...

Anyonwe who sells fake watches in the US--especially Rolex--is a nut. Let's lay a couple of things to rest, though. Filling up your Ford Excursion funds terrorism. Rep watches do not. But you are still screwed if you get caught. Here's how the process works. A congressional finding (or an agency's administrative finding in some cases) is like a Hall pass in Jr. High--it's a permission slip that lets you do stuff you ordinarily wouldn't do. That's hy everything from reps to dope smoking has been called "enabling terrorism" it gives them more money to do what they were tryingto do before anyway. For example if you get a finding that not paying parking tickets supports terror a whole new world of resources, tactics, and penalties becomes available to the local police to get you pay your parking tickets. It doesn't matter if everyone knows not paying parking tickets has nothing to do with terror. S In this case the finding, probably paid for by Richemont lobbying firm, makes protecting Richemont's profit margin part of the war on terror. With this piece of paper they get to put the resources of the Government's largest agency to work for Richemont instead of some tiny little office in the custom's bureau. We can all laugh about how we've restored al qaeda's chief source of funding aside from Bush's dad's business partners in the Carslile group--afghan opium--but that doesn't mean [censored] if you get stuck with a paper trails of 10 MBW's leading back to you. BTW, can someone explain to me why an MBW LV will fool more people than EL's new LV? That's a serious question--i just want to know what makes an MBW $200 better aside from the right to post "I just bought an MBW" on RWG.

Those movements can be had for as little as $135 bucks (usually they are found in some kind of combo barometer/thremometer/alqrm setup or a travel clock as above) My watchsmith says that there are two main problems: Some people recognize the value of the 8-day movement and swap them w/ other movementst before selling the piece (the one on ebay currently says everything works except the clock..hmmmm) and the parts needed to turn the key wound clock into a crown wound watch are very hard to come by. The up side, from rivers pics, is that not much bridge work is needed--a little grinfing , a bevel, and a brush job. River--you are the man! Question: I realize this is a one off, but will they do a Unitas version with a more accurate dial, hand, and back?

I had a gen on my wrist today (for those in the DC area, head to Montgomery Mall. 2nd floor--you know the store). Everything I expected. Huge. The pushers/bezel/stitching combo is incredible. If you're going to buy a gen, this one's it. IMO, they'll never be able to do a rep that does this one justice--too many little details, that together make the watch what it is, that they'll never be able to put together.

You betcha. I hope he makes a ton of money--he understands what we PAM addicts want and he supplies it big time. I'm on the way to my first PVD and finally, finally finally a guard that does the sweet H series 111's justice. Remember, the more we buy the more cool new stuff comes our way. (just being selfish, not a shill. I want him to stick around to make a BLUE DIAL!)