archibald

I checked on the Setup costs of CNC thinking they'd be low because of the reletively simple shape--sadly they're still killer--it's alwas the setup costs that kill you in CNC--you'd almost have to work out a deal w/ a dealer to do a run of RO's on leather. It may be worth sacrificing a bracelet to have them traditionally machined, though, since the actual machinining looks pretty straight forward. In fact, you may not even have to sacrifice the bracelet they're so simple. I'd check w/ a local metal shop if I had to have a RO on leather. I'm not exactly clear--The way it stands now if you wan't your RO on leather you have to destroy the bracelt or the end links or both?

I hope they'll do a seconds at 3 for the next movement they rep--plenty of watches to make w/ such a movement--brietlings, Mare Nostrum, Mullers and lots of other high end chronos.

That makes absolutely no sense. "So you got chrome plated brass on that fake Panerai--you want stainless, go to an AD and pay 5k for a $500 watch." Boloney. Reps can be made out of 14k gold just as easily as they can be made out of anything else--and sometimes they are. Maybe the buyer should have been guessed that you can't get 14k for the price he paid, but to say that you can only get gold if you buy a grossly overpriced watch is just plain misinformation. The issue here is king. King likes to hide in the gray area of translation, IMO--advertising things like "original" "swiss" and "14k gold" when I suspect she knows full well, in chinese, english, or Urdu that the watches contain zero parts meeting those descriptions. The OP's watch didn't even test out as containing any kind of gold at all. Don't get me wrong--king's fine for low to mid level reps at decent prices, but I take her website descriptions with a grain of salt.

Don't worry...Take it from a guy who's just missed a dozen watches--by seconds sometimes: If these sell you'll get another shot. Missed the black Le Plongeur three times before I got one. Look on the bright side: He who hesitates may loose, but he who waits may end up getting a correct solid back and thin crown. But if they ever make one w/ a blue dial...we'll have to have a race.

LOL! Irony. Check out the flag.

can you post a pic of the end links? I may be able to help in the near future.

a rep is a rep...

Please keep us updated about andrew's response.

I'd rethink your purchase of OEM Panerai for all of the reasons above. In fact, if there were a luxury watches could be traded like pork bellies, I'd be shorting Panerai big time.

I just got mine---After a relume and new crown it'll be damn close. sssurfer is right: the PR indicator is a tad bigger and maybe a fraction of a mm out of position compared to the gen. The case/version number is also wrong on the back, but who gives a rip? The movement seems to run surprisingly smoothly.

Ran into an old friend day before yesterday, and after commenting on my conquistador he mentioned he was going to plunk down 45 franklins on a TT yachtmastrer. I told him he was nuts, that he could get 5 replicas so close to the genuine models that nobody outside of a high end watch store could tell they were fake--for less money than the oreowned yachtmaster. He asked me to send him pics of the ones I reccomended.... My list, with needed mods. TT Yachtmaster, latest version OEM crown, aftermarket 18k bezel and 18k/SS bracelet, crown guards milled PAM 005, Correct Back Version New crown, capped hands, strap, dial relume 4th gen Planet Ocean OEM buckle, crown, He valve, hands (if available); AR Muller conquistador, black dial OEM dial if available, Strap AP Jules Audemars, rose gold Strap IIf he wants to spend the whole 4500, figure he can get the watches,straps, mods by The Zigmeister, a nice display box, and have enough left over to take the Missus out for dinner, and present her w/ a nice piece of jewelry, which he'll need to do after he comes home w/ 5 watches... You guys have any other ideas for the watches? Tough life, rep collecting!

nice work. Thanks for posting!

Do you mean the rep? Have you asked eddie? I can tell you the genuine does not come in SS--rose and white gold only.

Wow, what a nice surprise! Welcome back, David!

Man, i know Basel is all about getting press, and that there's no such thing as bad press, but those watches are an embarrassment. Maybe Rolex has finally embraced what many have known for a long time:People who buy contemporary rolexes tend to think of them as expensive pieces of jewelry primarily designed for wealth display purposes. For me, Rolex represents the opposite aesthetic of the watches I love--Panerai, Muller, JLC, Parmigiani.

I think lots of people would like a rep, but the problem is the movement w/ running seconds @3:00.

I hate to be the Parade Rainer--but in my experience the chances of getting OEM movement, rep case, OEM dial, and rep hands to work together are almost nil. I have tried at least 8 Muller frankens, dicking around w/ at least 12 rep cases in the process, and using OEM movements (a hell of a lot easier to source, since FM uses ETA). So far I have found two rep cases that fit the OEM movement and only one that fits the OEM movement and the OEM dial (on the other, only quartz will work which is fine since it is a 2 hand watch). Rep cases are just not made to house either OEM movements or Dials. If it works, it's either because someone made a 1:1 rep or it's all just plain dumb luck. I've had much better luck just tossing OEM dials onto a rep, but even then either the dial or rep or both need to be modded. Then you're going to run into problems w/ hands--you can have them custom made, but they are very expensive. I'm still looking for a cost-effective means of getting hands. If this works, you'll be glad you made the effort and you'll have one of the sweetest reps ever built. Best of luck to you, and i suggest finding an outlet to keep your frustration level down! BTW, admin: i just picked up an OEM RO jumbo dial--have you ever heard of anyone fitting it on the existing EL rep?

Schweeeet! This thread is a threfer, covers 3 of my favorite rep rant topics--day-date chronos, the value of reps and genuines, and the practice of quantifying accuracy with percentiles. As far as some "fake watches" being overpriced: I think most genuine watches are overpriced, and all bad fake watches are overpriced no matter how much they cost. Excellent fake watches, on the other hand, are almost never overpriced even if they cost a few hundred bucks. By-Tor asks why rep makers just don't freeze the dials. God, only knows but a good guess is that they think your average street cart replica buyer will feel gyped if those subdials don't do something and that they don't know what the hell a chronograph is anyway. They may be right, but that doesn't solve the problem of the semi-serious rep collector, does it, since probably most of us regard ourselves as a tad more sophisticated than people who source their watches more than 10 feet from the hot dog guy. What's scary is how much money i would have spent if some of the otherwise nice looking day-date chrono reps of interesting watches had accuratel marked, if funtionless subdials. I'd be in the pporhouse if those day-date chronos had funntioning automatic chrnos, even asia 7750's--A Picot Le Plongeur Chrono w/ a working stopwatch? [censored], how much do you want for it? I'm in. And on and on and on. But, alas, i think supply and demand will continue to kick our asses on this one. We're just going to have to be satisfied witht he watche sthey think they can sell as working chronos--rolex, panerai, maybe an IWC or Vacheron thrown in. Same ol' same ol'. As far as accuracy goes. I wish those who insist on expressing accuracy as percentile would have a vote to determine what every part is worth exactly, percentile wise. The way it stands now, saying a watch is 96, 96, 99, or 83 percent accurate is idiotic and nonsensical. It would be much easier if I could ask, "How much is a misspaced subdial worth?" and get the answer "Oh, that's easy, Arch: 4.3%." or "Ooops, that "officne" costs that rep 11.45%."

I just got back from Tourneau, where I tried on a PO. I looked specifically at the He valve and logo positions and, for what it's worth, both are still slightly off on the rep. I think the pics of Omega's HE valves can be decieving, sometimes looking higher than they are sometimes lower. I can tell you that the He valve position on the 42mm PO is not noticeably different than on the regular SMP. I compared them side by side (pretending to compare the bezel colors to see which one I liked better, 'natch).

Actually, I've thought about that. It would cost less than 300 bucks to have 100 of them made, they're legitmate aftermarket watch parts, etc. But ultimately, I just don't see the point. Anyone who knows that Panerais are supposed to have swan's neck regulators will be able to spot a CN movement in half a second for a dozen other reasons. Until they do the engraving, gears, and text right on the rep movements putting a swans neck on them isn't worth the effort. I'd rather see more dial-side improvements coming out of the factories like accurate H series guards, better lume and AR, fixed pin-even the the "A's" fixed--before I'd worry about the back.

You're allowed to do whatever you want. After all, you're in the 8th grade now.

If it absolutely has to be a PAM, although I'm not convinced the world needs another Pannie rep when there are so many gorgeous & emminently reppable watches that need to be moved up the queue, I vote for any solid back titanium model (which would allow many, many frankens to the modders) and/or any of the blue or anthracite dial luminors.

I'm glad someone else noticed this--they are up front about some of the watches being frankens. I posted about it on the old RWG, but couldn't find the link--a couple of people told me I was nuts, that no such place existed.

Someone, hopefully not one of us, is selling a (smudged) rep Black Seal dial on the 'Bay for $100. i suppose an OEM dial would cost considerably more than 100 bucks, but that's no excuse for at the very least not making it clear through the usual codewords that it's not genuine.

Wow, great find! Thanks for sharing--I've been having a hell of a time w/ a couple Genuine Muller dials that came w/o feet. Are these from cousin's? I take it you glue these feet on. or do you have to solder them?