Lucas

So, I was over in Shenzen this weekend. Interesting market if you compare to Beijing. All the watch dealers look the same. Thinking about standards I brought with me one of PAMs with swiss movement as a benchmark. Almost all dealers could go get quality reps once asked. It also seemed that they where all getting from the same source. So, for anyone going. Decide what rep you want and they will fetch it for you. Prices where about the same as the dealers here, even a little bit higher. I have been over 10 times in Beijing so I know my way around the markets, but these guys where tough and would not budge. So, don't expect to get a bargain. I buy because I sometimes like to feel and look at what I am buying before I do and not because of the price.

Some correction to the note above that this is all done in 3 hours. That might be a bit optimistic. First keep in mind that you need to pay for Visa with Chinese currency, then Visa process takes about 30 minutes depending on how many there are. So, at least budget with 4 hours.

And Hong Kong... time of my life. If you are thinking about it, go. Its a magical city like no other.

/Luc

Great post Slay,

I am going there this weekend. Any specific dealer you can recommend?

Cheers

Luc

Thanks. Does not hurt to check. ;-)

Hi guys,

I am going to Italy on Thursday morning a thought occured to me; They are quite tight in Italy on the laws on copies. Browsing some articles I saw that fines have been given to tourists in the amounts 3.500 EUR to 10.000 EUR.

I can understand they can grab a guy with a poor rep, since its easily spotted. But with the kind of rep we buy here, do you still think its a chance for me to get caught? Should I leave me reps at home. Any advice is appriciated guys.

Cheers

Luc

Hi guys,

Long time since I posted something, so sorry for being a bit slow. Looking to buy a pilot but cant figure out which is more accurate. Comparing the pics below, am I right to assume that the 5002 is more accurate than the 5004? Is the 5002 below version 1 or 2?

Cheers

Luc

I have to side with Pug on this as well. I tried to justify my purchases with saying that it benefits the industry with me marketing it and what not. But I think it is correct approach to see it for what it is instead. There is no justifying buying a rep. If I get filthy rich I will switch to genuine, but now I just cant afford it and I really love watches, which is a dilema.

thats my two pence

Hey mate,

Dont worry. It looks normal to me too and I have bougt many watches. Should they ask, state that you sent it off for repair in Asia, and that it is now returned. Works for me.

Cheers

Luc

So your conclusion is that China is wrong in producing replicas, US has no double standards and yet you buy replicas. How do you justify that, father of Lucas. ;-)

You can't *really* believe that our (the US's) agreements with China should hinge on the outcome of a single patent dispute.... Right? As far as this Hakan person goes, did he really get screwed on 3 patents? Or did he patent something obvious and get upset when everyone else thought of the same thing?

When he patent it it was not obvoius. It was the groudn breaking technology. He is the inventor.

A patent holder has rights during the term of his patent. The patent at issue (U.S. 4303986) is expired, so companies could not be compelled to pay royalties today.

However, they did not pay royalites during the durration of the patent either.

Lans assigned the rights to his patent to another entity, Uniboard AB, which is wholly owned by Lans. It seems that he did this for tax reasons, so I suppose that even Lans would acknowledge himself and Uniboard as separate entities. At least, that's what he would submit to the tax collector. The tragedy here is that Lans filed his suit under his name only without mentioning the patent holder, Uniboard AB, as a party to the suit. It does not matter that Lans is the inventor - he assigned his rights to Uniboard. It does not matter that he owns Uniboard, as they are different entities, particularly in the eyes of the courts (just as they are viewed as different entities to the tax collector).

He did not do it for tax reason, but for law suit reasons. Nevertheless, one of them does still own the right to the royalties and not one of the party got the royalty.

The distinction between the U.S. and China here is that the U.S. does have a system that allows preservation and enforcement of intellectual property rights. China does have a system for defining intellectual property rights, but enforcement is, quite frankly, a joke.

Lans had rights and screwed up in asserting those rights. While Lans's story is tragic, there is no moral connection between Lans's blundered attempt at asserting his patent rights, and the U.S. government and China.

They still used his idea to make money without paying him as the replica industry makes money without paying the watch industry. I still see a match of ethics and morals between the two.

(I hate to be on the opposite side from you on this one Luc for several reasons. One, having spent several years in Sweden, its country, culture and people will always have a special place in my heart. Two, my youngest boy's name is Lucas.)

Good for you.

If I get a son, his name will be Lucas.

The thing is that I dont think that US has a straight forward approach.

Hey guys,

If I understand the copyright discussion right the US Goverment is pushing hard to get China inlined with the rest of the world and not infringe on copyrights by Watch Makers, Clothes Manufacturers and more.

To be consitent in their persuit for justice, US and other goverments hosting companies producing color computer screens and using the GPS satilite system should egnoledge the Patents by the swedish inventor Hakan Lans, who actually owns the right as he is the inventor. Companies are today not paying his royalities as there is an uncertanty if he ore his company owns the patent. (either way still him, right)

http://egoist.blogspot.com/2005/03/inventor-hakan-lans.html

The irony of this is that US and other contries are persuing China for creating replicas, while the contries themselves are ignoring the verry well standards that helped to create.

I know this topic is a bit off, but when we see the watch industry close down parts of the forum because dealers are selling replicas, I would like to see Hakan Lans close down all computers using color screens ore shops selling computer screens of companies that has not paid is rightfully earned royalties.

I mean come on... Be consitent and look at yourselves first before blaiming China. This is just one example.

Well thats my two pence...

Cheers

Luc

Cool and verry disturbing at the same time.

Hey guys,

Starting to feel like this thread is getting jacked. Hate to break up this party , but any chance of keeping the disucssion about the watch?

Cheers

Luc

Great stuff! I was looking for Aarons site!!! This was exactlly was I was looking for. You made my date, mate.

Hey,

I know I have seen a post with military straps. Does anyone know were to find?

cheers

Luc

Thanks.

Good point. I do like the proto more than the actual production watch. The downside with the rep is that it is missing the actual rattrapante pin, but I guess that has to do with the movements.

cheers

Luc

Hi guys,

I have seen this a couple of times and it would be great if someone could explain to me why this is?

I've checked out the Panerai Ferrari Granturismo Rattrapante 005, wich is a great watch. Glad to see that Sash has it and I cant wait untill my dealer puts it up for sale. Looking at the version Sash carries, it is a verry good recemblance to the first versions of the watch I have seen released together with the press release. But when I look at Panerais website I can see many differences between the watch on their website and the watch that they showed at the watch fair. Can anyone explain this?

Cheers

Luc

At the Watch fair

On Panerais website:

Another orignal pic:

Compare it with this:

Excellant design there. Both very sleek.

Here is me hoping for that watch!

ok... I got to get into this

I call it simple:

I am impressed! Great spotting.

Which China town are you talking about? Not SF by chance?

No NY!

I think its a rep...too small date magnification...

Well, it is... Actually one of the cheapest reps I have eaver bought. In China Town for 28 bucks, when I was going out for Starbucks. Crappy quality, but fun to have. Being in China Town, it is hard to stop the temptation.

Looks very genuine...

here is mine.

I wanna play this game to... Here is mine:

They are both different watches, so if you like the Pam, go ahead, fire away and wait until the Omega comes out and get that as well.

I know that they are quite different, which makes it much more difficult to decide. I already have the PAM 111, PAM 127 and the PAM 196, which would make the PAM 212 ore PAM 253 a good addition to the collection. But, after getting the Orange Planet Ocean 42,5, I must say that this is one of my favorites. So, its really difficult to decide.

I have been waiting for a really good version of the Planet Ocean 45,5mm Crono, but cant find one. The available version has the date alignment wrong. So what do you guys think, should I wait for a good PO Crono ore go ´for a PAM 212 or PAM 213? Cant decide!

Sorry for your loss, mate.