Jimmythree

quote = I am getting into the SSD more and more. I want a custom crystal without that "crown" at 6 /quote Some of the first crystals with the 'clown crown' at 6 had a printed crown that could be removed. I do not know about all the various later models though. I have one of the 'perfect eta subs' from Paul from about a year ago and it does have an etched 'clown crown' on it. I put it under a 20x microscope and the etched dots appear to be rough cut but they look OK under regular 5x or 10x magnification. The crystal is sapphire as I gave it the old 'screwdriver test'. (it was already chipped) For some crazy reason they made the crystal an odd ball size so a standard DJ/submariner crystal would not fit although it is made in the same manner as a genuine sapphire crystal with a stepped down gasket ledge etc. The genuine crystal is 2.0mm thick, 30.4mm outer diameter with a 29.5mm diameter gasket ledge. The 'perfect submariner' crystal is 2.0mm thick, 30.45mm outer diameter with a 29.0mm gasket ledge. The gasket ledge is the problem as a genuine spec crystal and gasket will not work.

Wow! A genuine relax with blue dial and bezel on a silver colored watch! A guy gave me a few replicas like this and they looked so goofy that I hid them away. ...except for a couple that I gave to kids. I guess I need to dig 'em out because they are In-Style-Now!

From TZ-UK... Here is a comparison of the swiss eta 2824 and ST24 (2824 clone) plus some notes about the ST26 (2892 clone). This fellow does a pretty good job. Maybe ZZ can get his hands on a couple of these and do a comparo too. Looks like the easiest way to tell a China 2824 clone from a swiss eta 2824 is the spokes on the balance wheel. There should be an easy way to tell the China 2892 clone from the swiss 2892 after this fellow gets all the 2892 clone and swiss 2892 pics posted. http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f...p;sk=t&sd=a

I looked at catalogs from the same USA supply house from June 2003 until March 2008 and the prices of a few items have really gone up lately. The items are: Steel and 14K Italy made 20mm jubilee bracelets in regular center link and heavy center link versions. (22 links with hoods) note: cheaper bracelets can be found but some are lower karat that advertised and/or shoddy quality Solid 18K yellow gold Italy made die struck fluted DJ bezel. note: these bezels are identical to genuine in weight, size, etc Eta 2824-2, Eta 2892-A2, Valjoux/Eta 7750 with date at 3 o'clock (all movements swiss made and assembled) Here are the prices: SS/14K regular center link jubilee bracelet 6-03...$275 4-04...$299 11-05...$299 12-06...$359 11-07...$459 3-08...$529 SS/14K with heavy center links 6-03...$349 4-04...$299 11-05...$389 12-06...$399 11-07...$529 3-08...$619 18K Italy fluted die struck DJ bezel 6-03...$179 4-04...$199 11-05...$199 12-06...$199 11-07...$399 3-08...$479 Eta movements priced in order: 2824, 2892, 7750 6-03...$55, $99, $289 4-04...$79, $99, $289 11-05...$75, $175, $289 12-06...$75, $175, $289 6-07...$99, $149, $399 (first big price increase, same prices on 11-07) 3-08...$159, $199 (if available), $429 (if available) Odds and ends: note: all priced on 7-07 Eta 6497-1...$79 Eta 2893-1 with 24h disc...$175 Eta 251.272 quartz chronograph movement...$49.95 to $69.95 depending on date/day date etc (used in high priced swiss brands) China CH2812 with date at 3...$11.95 each or $9.95 each if you buy three CH2813 with date at 3 and day of week at 12...$13.95 each or $11.95 each for three CH2198 day, date, 24h on subdials...$4,95 Seagull ST6...$12.95 each or $10.95 each for three CH2189 gold tone skeleton...$19.95 Seiko 5M43 Kinetic...$69 CH1813 (Eta 2671 clone)...$27.95

Marathon "CCG/SAR", one of my all time favorites. http://www.broadarrow.net/ccg.htm

quote = I have been on both shipping and receiving sides where a watch just never showed up. No box - nothing. Both were international shipments one from Canada to England and one from Europe to Canada. I do not think that insurance can be purchased for a rep as insurance requires complete and full disclosure and in most jurisdictions replicas are not legal. However, I am not certain of this. As to whether loss is a problem through shipping - I think it is a bigger problem than the shipping companies of which I include the post offices, FedEx, Purolater and UPS want us to know about. Where there are people handling shipped goods there will be theft. The declaration on the package whether listing a high or low price is the trigger. It is likely the labeling of the contents as "watch parts" or "watch" that draws the attention of the thief. Easy to pocket stuff and easy to sell on eBay later. I think that it is just a Numbers game and eventually we just experience a loss after a certain number of shipments. I chalk it up to the price of trading with far away places. It burns but I see no solution. /quote Concerning fedex and ups...iirc both have disclaimers about paying off on insurance for 'jewelry and watches'. They will allow (and encourage) the sender to buy insurance but if the item goes missing, they quote the obscure rule and do not pay at all or have a low limit that the sended does not know about. I think it's about $500. I could be wrong as it has been a few years since I used fedex or ups. I learned my lesson. A friend who lost a few items with ups and fedex told me UPS stands for: Usually (the) Package (is) Stolen ...and the fedex motto should be "When a package absolutely, positively has to be stolen overnight." He found one package on the roof above the front door. He called the carrier (ups or fedex) and they called back later and said the delivery guy heard a dog barking and did not want the dog to get the package. The dog must have signed for the package because the clerk said the delivery guy had a signature. ...or maybe the guy was spending the day on the roof and forgot about it. I won't mention DHL because I get madder than H... For items shipped in the USA...USPS Registered Mail may be a little better as they might try to recover the item and might pay a claim but I do not know because everything I sent made it. I noticed when I sent a package by Registered Mail last week that a big sign on the wall said the $9.50 registered mail charge (plus postage!) "Includes insurance up to $25,000" When I asked the clerk about it she told me NO insurance was included but it could be purchased. I asked about the statement on the wall and she gave me the famous USPS '1000 mile stare'. They always require a value to be written on the invoice though...insurance or no insurance...but you have to pay extra to get the insurance they say goes with it! On the receipt it says "Customer Must Declare Full Value" and has a box for the amount. It also plainly says: "Domestic Insurance up to $25,000 included in the fee." Anyone with walking around sense would assume the $9.50 Registered Mail fee WAS the fee...but NO! according to the clerk and the declaration on back of the receipt. It also says on the front: "International Indemnity is limited." ...yeah, to $zero probably. On the back of the receipt is a few hundred words making it a total mystery. Bottom line: You are on your own, it's a gamble. Do not count on the carrier's insurance to pay. The people I know who ship high value goods use a third party insurer they can trust.

quote = As someone thats worked on genuine OEM stuff vs aftermarket I would charge the same for rep vs gen because standards are poor for rep stuff meaning what should take a second could take either a second or 10 minutes or an hour. Things not built to precision mean much higher probability for failure. So you remove a hand and the whole stem comes out, yuck. And then as the watchsmith you're in a very hard position of how to replace an aftermarket part that you have no supply chain for. I'm warehousing spare parts for the movements in my watches just in case. Just my counterpoint to why pricing may be high and why most smiths don't want to work on reps. /quote Eta powered watches are usually no trouble to work on. China movement stuff is sometimes very hard to work on. I will not work on China movement watches except my own so I can junk it if I get mad at it. Some of the China movements are DOA when you get the watch...full of dirt, dry of oil, wet or rusty, incorrect assembly etc but you can not always blame the movement factory...many are damaged by the watch assembler.

quote = ...which are the rarest of the reps? Those very infrequently or never seen... /quote I think the 'rare' replica watch I have is rare because no one wanted it... A 38mm eta 2824-2 powered "Breguet" in a rose gold plated coin edge case with see through back and deployant buckle. With a fancy silver dial with date at 6. It was sent by mistake and I had to eat it. I wouldn't wear it to a dog fight.

quote = US member here... For many US members, their Home States law is going to be of the most interest. The federal government leaves many many things up to the states... It wouldn't suprise me to find that different US states = different laws re: reps. /quote A local flea market vendor (southern USA) got busted a few years back with about 50 dozen fake Oakley sunglasses for sale at an outside market. First, two fellows came by and looked at the glasses and asked how much they were. The vendor priced them and one fellow bought a pair. About an hour later the buyer and the other guy came back along with a Sheriff's Deputy and a warrant. He identified himself as an 'authorized' inspector for Oakley. (he was a private detective who drove around looking for fake Oakley sunglasses, the other guy was not identified) Here is more or less how it went down... Inspector "Do you want to do this the easy way or the hard way". Vendor "What is the easy way?" Inspector "Give us all the fake Oakley sunglasses you have here and we go see the Judge." Vendor "What is the hard way?" Inspector "We take everything you have here, go to your house and turn it upside down, then we go see the Judge." He did it the 'easy' way. note: The inspector's sidekick tried to take ALL the sunglasses...Oakley fakes and unbranded sunglasses. The vendor threatened to "Stomp his ass." and the guy walked away and stood at a distance. The inspector gathered up all the fake Oakleys displayed for sale and all the vendor had in his car. The inspector loaded the sunglasses in his car and the vendor was loaded in a police car, no search, no handcuffs, no nothing. They all went straight to the Courthouse and met with a Judge. Each one told their side of the story. The sidekick said nothing. The Judge had a stenographer take notes, put the vendor under $3000 cash bond, and set a Court date. The vendor and inspector showed up on the Court date. The vendor and inspector did not have lawyers. The Judge let them tell their stories, then asked the inspector what he thought an appropriate fine would be. The inspector got loud and said he wanted "$100 restitution!" for each pair of fake sunglasses because that was the average retail price of them and that was how much Oakley stood to lose. 50 x 12 x $100 = $60,000.00...Sixty Thousand Dollars!! The Judge would not go along with this at all. The Judge asked the inspector "Is it not true that you now have the sunglasses?" Inspector "Yes." Judge" Well you get the sunglasses and I get the $3000...case dismissed!" He put the vendor under two years probation. The vendor told me he listened to the inspector bragging to a couple 'Courthouse Junkies' outside the Courthouse about how many pairs of fake Oakleys he had at home and it sounded to him like the inspector might be selling them. The two years probation is past and I see the vendor now and then on street corners...selling fake Oakley sunglasses etc on a folding table. I have seen NASCAR, Disney, LV, Coach, Rolex etc inspectors and they all have about the same routine. You have to offer the fake items for sale and state a price. The inspector purchases the item to prove the vendor really intends to sell the item. The inspector has to obtain a warrant to have a legal claim to confiscate the fake merchandise. Some inspectors bluff vendors into giving up all the fake merchandise and go on their way. Disney and Rolex inspectors want money, blood, prison time, and your first born son. I have seen Rolex inspectors at big NAWCC shows and they are sometimes extremely aggressive...but I heard they take off when someone pulls a gun on them. There are 'Fake' Fake Inspectors too! They are all over flea markets etc in the summertime. Most dress like 'Country Club' types and ask if the vendor has any high end knockoffs etc. The vendor shows them something. Then the 'fake' fake inspector gets loud and aggressive and pulls out a fake ID of some sort and threatens to take the vendor to jail etc unless the vendor surrenders all the fake merchandise. The vendor caves in and gives up the merchandise. The 'fake' fake inspector takes off and sets up in another town selling the 'confiscated' merchandise.

quote = I need to take my new turn-o-graph to the watch smith, so he can change a damage dial for a new one... How much do you think it would cost me? I do not want to pay more... /quote To change a dial on an eta rolex replica probably $20 to $30. Same job for a genuine rolex probably $50 to $100. Why so much more for genuine? 1...Have to be more careful and more risk involved (dropped, stolen etc). 2...Genuine watch should have a new caseback gasket, crown gaskets (maybe), and pressure test. 3...Owners of genuine rolex watches are usually a lot harder to satisfy no matter how good the work is. You swap the dials out and are done in 30 minutes but the owner might show up in three months claiming you did something to his watch to make it lose an extra second every four days. I have seen it happen.

I bought a few ZRC (Zuccolo Rochet) padded straps for breitling watches and they are a pretty good match. The padded styles in regular tanned or black leather list for about $40 but sell for a bit less. The $230 breitling strap is a $50 strap imho. The ZRC straps I used were the oil treated padded 'Nautical Calf' aka Aquacalf. Picture... http://www.watchbattery.co.uk/shop/Sports_Watch_Straps.shtml

quote = There's a lot of controversy surrounding that review, to be honest. It's not as cut and dried as it would at first seem. /quote The explorer I in question was purchased new from a rolex AD by Richard Paige, the owner of TZ back then. note: RP also owned 'Paris 1925' an upscale California watch store where he sold patek, ap, vc etc and was an accomplished watchmaker. The condition was representative of a production rolex of that era. Remember that the timekeeping was very good and the dial etc was well finished...this is what sells the watch. Very few owners know or care what goes on inside their watch as long as it has the magic name on the dial and looks and runs OK. (this is also a pretty good explanation of why replicas have made it so big) I had friends at a rolex AD back then and rolex did turn out some crap...I saw it firsthand. (and owned a few AK etc with the 3000) They were still trying to maintain QC while turning out 600,000 watches a year and it was not working out very well. Besides...the calibre 3000 movement in the explorer was not much of a movement imho. It was a cheapo quickie...a downgraded 3035 made just so rolex could have a fast beat no date movement for the ex I, no date sub, OP etc until they came out with the 3130 a few years later. (the 3130 is made from the 3135)

quote = I am in for this case. Yes - i will have to buy all the other parts - but that is ok with me. However, there is no way i am willing to pay ND prices when i know they are worth perhaps half that. I believe that the HRV valve on this one is "working". /quote I have a similar case, the he valve is made the same way and it might work but I would not trust it in water. I noticed the leaf type tension spring had moved out of place after wearing the watch for a while and let most of the tension off the valve so I bent the leaf spring a little to apply more tension and hopefully keep it in place...so far it has stayed in place. There is a little O ring on the plunger valve that might seal up under water...maybe not. The theory is that tension spring pressure will seal the he valve in shallow water and outside water pressure will increases tension on the he valve O ring and seal up tighter the deeper you go...on a genuine watch.

quote = So in that sense, if someone were to observe that I was wearing a 'fake' rolex, as is the topic that got us to this point, they'd be in an interesting position to try to point out the basis of their observation. You better have quite an eye for crown guards, that's all I can say. Buying and selling replica watches can get quite expensive, by the way. I always like to observe that the average rep probably declines at least 25% a year, whereas the price of the vintage rolex parts have probably increased at a similar rate. /quote I doubt the average person will think your particular rolex is a replica...they think they all are, especially submariners. You are right, they can not point out what makes it a replica though. I have not had anybody think my genuine watches were genuine for a long time either. Twenty five years ago maybe, but not now. So...what's the point in wearing a genuine watch? Buying and selling replicas is expensive but it is probably quite a bit cheaper than buying and selling genuine watches. If you buy replicas cheap enough to begin with, they are probably worth about as much after a year's wear if you take care of them...and do not sell them to replica forum members. Sell them to outsiders who do not know where to get the better replicas. No doubt vintage rolex parts are going up in price but if you sell something at today's price and it goes up 100% in a few years...you still lost money by not waiting. As for rolex...the best bang for the buck is probably a genuine case and dial DJ/explorer I/OPD/AK etc with an eta in it. Genuine on the outside...replica on the inside.

quote = What you guys think of this on - gen - rep -garbage ? Frank /quote I have a few of these and they are OK...after all, they lasted over 20 years. Most were made by JB/Champion or C&I and you can find similar bracelets on other watch brands. Bulova used similar bracelets in the 1970s...most are 18mm or 19mm but they work fine with 20mm lugs as long as you use 20mm hoods. They sold for about $39 new and were available from USA rolex retailers. The local rolex AD had them on a rotating display on the counter. The sloppy fit of the hoods tends to wear serial and reference numbers off and rough up the under sides of the lugs though.

The watches: I have been a watchnut since I was a kid, owned all kinds of genuine watches from AP to Zenith. Bought my first genuine rolex in the early 1970s. Bought my first 'good' replica from a USA Today ad in the early 1980s...a 17 jewel automatic eta rolex in a steel case that cost $75 plus shipping from NYC. Before that it was pin lever wind up and quartz pot metal fake junk for $12 to $15 and I usually gave them away. They are all gone now except for the USA Today fake rolex and a wind up fake Seiko that I got in a yard sale for fifty cents. Always liked rolex watches but jacked up retail prices, no parts etc has really made it hard to be a 'genuine rolexguy' for the past 12 or 15 years so I put the genuine watches away and bought a few 'perfect' (HA!) replicas. They have been mostly trouble free. The people: From what I have seen on the internet in the past 13 years... The average internet 'genuine watchnut' is just that...a nut. Many of them give me the impression that they are the fake...not the watch. The average internet 'replica guy' is a genuine good guy who will help if they can. All in all, a better bunch of people to associate with. Eyeball to eyeball watchguys...when anyone asks if a watch is real, I usually say "No, it's a pretty good fake" and let them look at it. If it is a 'genuine watchnut' (nut) asking, I usually say..."If it was not real, you could not see it" then hand it over and say "You tell me". Some can spot them as fake, some can not. The grass is not always greener in 'genuine" watchland. Hate to see you go.

quote = Think you may find it is more like.... There a couple or a few plants which do CNC work and specialise in cases (Both rep and for gen manufacturers,) There are a couple of plants doing dials (All sorts) A couple selling pins and spring bars.... some others with hands... A couple or three who do various bracelets/straps.... and of course movement suppliers. Or some intermix of the above. Also other parts suppliers.. O rings, crystals, etc etc. THEN the entrepreneurial "wholesaler" takes a photo, or a watch,(in bits) to each of his suppliers and gets pricing for his required parts... gets the best he can.... or orders a quantity.... and his family or extended family and friends assemble all the bits. Sometimes a supplier runs out of stock, so he uses the next best available component supplier. This may be a lot closer to the true scenario, albeit it may be on a bigger scale, it would certainly explain the variations we see in the "same" model, also the "dealer" incarnations eg MBK, MBW. etc. Just a wild guess, however with a little understanding of the Chinese watch parts trade! Offshore /quote You are probably right. The Asian factories that make high quality name brand components would have top of the line case and bracelet making equipment and it would not be much trouble to reprogram cad/cam equipment now and then to crank out a few hundred (or thousand) replica cases and bracelets. A friend works in a big automotive component manufacturing factory and he changes machine tool programs daily to make different components on the same machine tools. He said it would be very simple to make watch cases, backs, bezels, and bracelet parts.

quote = Nice. I'm sure you know that was a standard issue military dive watch- any pics? Arty /quote If I am not mistaken, they were sold in military post exchanges and this is where a lot of them came from. Mine is the same as watch number one on the Vintage Zodiac website...it might be older than I thought it was. I have had it for years. Also have ZSw like numbers 2,3,4. Click on the picture in the center of the main page. http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/Stock/Seawolf/Seawolf.htm

1960s Zodiac Seawolf no date with black dial

quote = I still think over $300 is too much for Asian clone based watch.... /quote Absolutely. I know for a fact that steel watches with screws in bracelet links, mg crystals, DG 2812/13 (Miyota clone) or Seagull ST6 powered sub, DJ, GMT, YM etc are $30 each (or less) in quantity in NYC (if you know where to get them) because a traveling watch seller who comes by the flea market a few times a year always has a load of them. note: these watches are not Canal Street pot metal junk but very good steel cases, bracelets and dials. The Asian movement subs all had older style solid mid link bracelets, MG crystals, and more or less correct date fonts...some had open 6 and 9. Some casebacks have "monarchpolfy gelena shitinerand, stainless steel, 12600" some "montres rolex, geneva switzerland, 16610" etc...but most are blank. The GMTs have submariner crowns and the exp II have 6mm crowns. Almost all have plastic movement spacers. The "swiss" models are usually the same as the internet dealers but you have to look them over to find the latest models. If you are a dealer in China...buy the watch for $15, add another $10 or $15 for a sapphire crystal, sell them online for $129 and you can make a pretty good profit. Add a sapphire crystal and a 2892 clone, sell them online for $329...and you can get rich. The watches the traveller buys for $30 in NYC are probably $12 or $15 in China. The YM etc watches with a 2892 clone are probably $50 to $90 in China. (just a guess...maybe less, maybe more) note: I can probably find the wholesale cost of the 2892 clone in China as I know a guy who buys movements etc from there. The ST6 is $5 or $6 and the DJ 2812/13 is about $10. Material houses usually mark cheap movements up at least double because of defective returns. Cousins price on the 2892 clone probably represents a 100% mark up plus there is surely a middle man (or five) between the factory and Cousins. The traleller might have the latest thing next time he shows up because he had some "swiss perfect subs" with hollow center links, stubby crown guards etc last summer. You never know what he has and if you ask for anything specific...he can not pick it out because he is not a watch nut. It's just pot luck. He told me he pays $110 each for eta 2836 powered watches (he sells them for $150). The Asian powered models cost $30 and he sells them for $50. You have to open each "swiss" watch to make sure it has the correct movement as the people he gets them from skin him now and then...like I said, he does not know much about watches. They come 10 of the same model in a blister pack roll. I put a new eta 2688 in a lady DJ that someone got from him a while back...the movement went DOA bcause it got wet. The 2688 is a 21600 bph, 17 jewel with day and date movement and you have to remove the day/date discs plus a few other parts and install the date disc with an overlay from the original movement when you change them out. That's why you have to open them up because they are sold to him as eta 25 jewel models and he does not open them. They are all the same price, tutones and all...$150 from the back of his van. He gave me a few DOA Asian models last time around for showing him about the various "swiss" models. (I doubt it will do much good though) If he shows up this spring, I will post what I see. He had Illinois tags on his van last time he came by the flea market.

quote = I'd give Paul a benefit of the doubt. He's such a dope... I'm not 100% sure if he even knows what he's selling, most of the time. /quote I think you are right. It sure would be nice if someone bought one of the suspected 2892 clones (not me!) just to see what it is and then there would be absolute proof. Otoh (1), the next one just might have a genuine eta 2892 in it. It's slow motion gambling at $600 a shot. I remember when oversize watches started showing up with the genuine eta 6497 and when they started putting Asian clones in them, the price stayed the same...until buyers caught on. Otoh (2), I always wondered who knew first...the sellers or the buyers. I did not have any watches with a 6497 except a Kienzle Atlantis and I doubt if I would ever have known about Asian 6497/8 clones unless The Zigmeister posted about the pallet bridge with one screw in the clone vs two screws in the genuine eta. Otoh (3), Turns out that I finally wound up with a watch in a trade that had a 6497 clone so I knew how to tell what it was before I put too much $$ in it. Proof that times change... I bought 4 nos off brand swiss watches with 2892 movements a few years ago for $100 each and at the time I thought I paid too much. Next, I bought four nib Oniss with eta 2836 for $55 each and six nib "swiss" Gruen automatics with eta 2824 for $45 each and thought I paid too much for them too. Otoh (4), I bought some seiko 5 and orients and lost $$. I had some rolex stuff and sold it when prices took off and thought I hit a home run. Otoh (5), I sold the genuine rolex stuff way too cheap judging by today's prices. It's always the 'Otoh' that gets you. Otoh (6), Otoh (5) sunk my boat.

quote = I am using the Clark tube it came with 4 different o-ring seals. Two appear to go inside the tube, one around the outer circumference, and a 4th one. Am I to assume that this goes around the threaded part that is tapped into the case? I have read somewhere else that Rolex did not use a rubber seal on this part. I want the watch to be as water resistant as possible, does anybody that has done this mod before have suggestions? /quote I am not familiar with the 'Clark" case tube but a genuine triplock tube has two O rings inside the tube, one under the crown cap, one on the outside of the tube down close to the case, and a plastic/hard rubber gasket between the tube and case. notes: (7mm case tube or crown = submariner) 1...The O rings inside the case tube and under the crown cap are identical. These three O rings are standard 6.0mm case tube O rings. 2...The O ring for the outside of the tube is easy to tell from the other three. 3...The gasket between the case tube and case is harder than the other O rings and easy to tell apart. 4...7mm crowns bottom out against the case tube when screwed down...unlike DJ etc crowns that tighten down against a flat gasket under the crown cap. For this reason, as long as all the threads are OK and the case tube does not leak where it screws into the case...the crown will seal up just fine if the O rings are good. 5...On some generic brass 7mm case tubes...the threaded part that screws in the case is too short and fragile. 6...7mm case tubes are the same thread size where they screw into the case as standard 6.0mm case tubes...3.0mm x .35mm 7...Some accessory case tubes do not have the O ring on the outside of the case tube...genuine twinlocks and early triplocks do not either. The outer O ring is basically a dust/moisture gasket and protects the threads from dirt and water when washing hands etc. 8...It is a hassle to cut a replica case to acceot the genuine case tube gasket so it is probably easier to try to get by with a silver washer like used on a 6.0mm DJ case tubes and/or gasket cement on the threads. 9...Grinding/cutting the case so the case tube fits better is a good idea to prevent the crown from being too far from the case when screwed down. Because 7mm crowns bottom out against the case tube...you can not force the crown closer to the case simply by tightening it down.

A word of advice...be extremely careful dealing with this outfit. I have a few stories about them. (about 7 or 10 years back) One story about them trying to sell used rolex crowns, claiming they were new... They advertised "new" rolex crowns for a lowball price. I called and asked if they were still in the original blister packs. They said NO! I asked if they were "take offs". They said NO! I asked why they were not in blister packs. They said they were purchased "in bulk" and that was the way they came. I knew better because a friend has a rolex parts account. I told them what I thought about it and reported them to the NAWCC. The NAWCC said this was not the first complaint on PAM. I have 3 of these stories from first hand experience...one repair with more or less good results, one where they stole a crown off a nos UG Polerouter, and the story below. (he finally got the crown back) The story about a friend who sent a watch for repair and one for parts... They sent a quote. He OK'd the job. They sent the repaired watch back with a seriously jacked up repair price. He stuck to the repair quote. (he had already paid) They kept the "parts watch" worth about $300. The repaired watch was barely running and the movement was very dirty, looked like it had been worked on in a pig pen. A low class botch job. Later on, the guy who owned the watch was in Palo Alto CA on business so he rented a car and went to visit Palo Alto Micro. They would not come to the door so he called and told them he wanted to talk to them. They still would not open the door. He called back a few times and they hung up each time. He asked around and everyone said that was business as usual. (they still have his parts watch) They are better known as Palo Alto Micro...a hole-in-the wall used computer shop. Ask around.

I think you just coined a 'replica truism'. The world's worst salesman is not going to run his stock down with accurate descriptions.

quote = Jimmythree am I reading this right? You had his paypal account closed after just 27 days, you then went on to get a full reimbursement from your credit card provider and yet you still chased and received the watches? /quote KB If you do not file a complaint with pp before their stated time limit, you are out of luck. Rule #1...If you feel like you are going to get screwed...you are usually right. Rule # 2...If you wait until you know for sure you have been screwed...it is too late. Remember this...WLD had gone silent with over $4K of MY MONEY and he started getting a lot of bad reviews about this time. There was less than $1000 charged on the credit card...that is what I got refunded. The rest came from a pp account. WLD sent almost a dozen DOA/cheap junk watches worth maybe a total of $300 along with a few runners like I ordered. He sent the correct number of watches so he could try to get his pp account reopened...he DID NOT send all the correct, running watches that were ordered...and paid for in advance. I lost between $1k and $2K counting the refund. I gave the junk watches away at the flea market. Btw...this was not my first rodeo with a low rent crook. My first was in 1965. I have a collector for local crooks. (when he's not fishing in Marathon FL or in Italy chasing women) WLD was a looong distance crook and I did not want to give him much of a head start. I have some pretty good stories but I can not tell them on a public message board.