lemonvr6

looks pretty good to me, is the pearl decent, I can't really tell from the pics.

http://www.watchmaker9.tv/products/REFURB-SUBMARINER-16610-2007-Z-SERIAL.htm

To say the members here are pretending to be something that there not is trully a sad statement. In essence this is what you are implying.

No implication at all- that's exactly what I said and most everyone here knows it's true, whether they care to admit it or not.

OK fair enough.But the question remains. Why are you here then? Mike " Cheating the system with a rep" WT????????

I'm here for entertainment. Idle curiosity I guess.

Let's not pretend for a second that people don't buy reps to be something they aren't.

Excellent post.

Oh.....and why are you here then?

Ken

I was once attracted to the idea of "cheating" the system with a rep. I then learned that $200 fakes feel like exactly that on your wrist.

1. Fooling people.....or not. I can't think of anyone who sets out to actually fool others with a replica. And isn't that what really makes the whole idea interesting? It's much more of a conversation to discuss how the heck they managed to knock off the gen so well.

I'd say that 99.9% of ALL rep owners are trying to do just that. Its far more elegant to pretend otherwise, though, isn't it?

That said, I have no reps.

I tinkered with reps for quite a while, and eventually became dissatisfied with never-ending "new" versions, QC issues, inaccuracies and the general slimy feeling of wearing a fake watch. While the allure of getting a "deal" on something that is 99% or even 100% visually accurate to the original is tempting, it really isn't worth it. I didn't like wearing my reps, even the ones that were virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. *I* knew they were fake, and that was all that mattered. I get real satisfaction when I look at my gen Panerai and shudder when I look at the rep that I wisely dumped so long ago. The ~$35,000 of gens I own reward me every time I wear them. The old reps are wasted time. The same goes for my Louis Vuitton luggage. Its real, and whether or not people think its fake, I carry it with pride.

I think he is taking about this rep,

I steal this pic from josh site but practically all collector sources it, so this you should ask Chris (Eurotimes).

I don

Do you really think the dealers are "losing money" with repairs? These things cost nothing to make, and the "errors" are engineered in. Do you really think it takes eleven revisions of a fake directly copied from a gen to be accurate? The money is in volume. If some suckers will pay for ten ever-improving versions of a watch, why make a perfect rep on the first try? There's an awful lot of self-entitlement here for people supporting the black market.

I have a gen J12 chrono with the white diamond bezel. Doesn't bother me one bit. Just a matter of how comfortable you are with yourself.

Yes. I bought a rep for the exact purpose of seeing if I would want to keep the gen.

This

Led to this

And this

And finally this

Here's some of my bling. Best version money can buy.

@phoband This is indeed a sweet watch, however the diamonds are what makes it for me... I just don't feel the non diamonds ones so much... the funny thing is this still has the rotating bezel even though there is no way the diamonds help you figure out any sort of timekeeping

The diamonds certainly do make the watch...

If I thought she'd actually wear it regularly, I would My fiance has the annoying habit of insisting on getting something (bag, shoes, top, watch etc) and then seldom wearing it again, so although I don't mind buying gifts, I don't like wasting money on things that will essentially be 'single use' items

great idea, mkm, i'd love to see some wrist shots. the j12 is also on my list.

A rep wrist shot

the real deal

and the REAL deal.

The medium quality all-ceramic one that goes for circa $200 from various dealers... in White (ladies)

Has anyone compared this one to the gen? I really need to know how the bracelet compares to the gen on this one. I pretty much paid for the highest quality one but my dealer went through 2 watches already and there are constant brown/yellow flaws on the bracelets of these "high quality" J12s. So my dealer suggested I go for the cheaper one... It seems that people getting theirs have perfect bracelets... Anyway has anyone compared this cheaper model to an actual genuine?

If someone is wearing this one (with CZ bezel) and a gen in the same place will it be easy to call it out? But more importantly Im concerned with my first question, thanks.

I have a gen 41mm chrono with white diamonds, and fakes are very easy for me to spot. Most people can't tell the difference, however.

TT sub. I can't figure out how to release the bracelet from the case. There are no holes on the sides...

Have a trusty "perfect" sub, stripped out a bracelet lug. Looking for the best replacement possible. Please help.

TVT, my friend......i must compliment you on your well-reasoned responses to this question/statement. Even though you're completely and totally wrong about most of it, you can at least articulate your point-of-view without resorting to name calling and the blatant self-justification that plagues a place like this. (and the internet at-large)

Good on you for being so correctly incorrect. :-)

I'm curious, then as to why you feel there is such a strong demand for reps. All of the points TVT made are valid and likely much closer to the truth than you are comfortable with.

Picked it up last week from NYC

How different is the genuine to the rep?

Bezel font is wrong, datewheel font is wrong, bracelet bolts are of incorrect design, different fastening technique for links. The ceramic color and feel is very close.

What do you think of it? Any chance of any photos? Perhaps some wrist shots ?

Is it good quality and does it feel like a good watch?

Not something I could get right away due to the cost, but something to put on the list for future consideration. 38mm is the man's size, but will it feel too small after getting used to 40mm to 44mm (PAMs) ?

The EL 38mm J12:

The gen Chrono I bought a few weeks later:

All in all the rep felt really good until I got the gen. It's a good rep, and will fool most people, but is glaringly obvious to a gen wearer.

Lever is wrong shape where it meets the crown, font is wrong, lever pin is goofy looking too. Still the best 000 rep I've seen.

my gf is wearing a pam 111, a ladies rollie, a breil gen, a audemars P and a citizen divers.........

The gen j12 has silver pins as well.

We were quoted $3650 for the larger white plain dial version.

Mind giving some commentary on the J12 differences you noticed?

Overall it's a really good rep. To 99.9% of the population, it's indistinguishable from the original.

-The "1" on the "15" on the bezel is the wrong font. It should be "|5"

- The bracelet is, as far as I can tell, nonadjustable and lacks the silver pins in the six links closest to the clasp

-The bracelet has screws holding it together on the inside, the gen only has small dimples on the inside.

The ceramic looks very similar, the rep having less of a pearl effect than the gen, but not by much. The rep is also a bit lighter.

I would only be concerned about it being spotted as a rep by someone either wearing a gen or working in a watch store.

The pic of the rep is bad, but you can see it next to a gen.

Rep

Gen