Cross7

Cheers chaps. Being a newbie, I learnt an awful lot when tackling this project, including how painful it is to drill into your own finger. Loads of invaluable information on this forum gave me the confidence to give things a go, so huge thanks to all the experts.

I’m in the UK. Definitely beyond my meagre budget!

Cheers. Yes, it seemed to be virtually impossible to find correct hands and bezel insert for the milsub...unless I’m looking in the wrong places. I’d love to see a gen in the flesh.

I think I’ve finally completed my 5517 milsub that has been through a few different incarnations. It started as a complete HR (helenarou) milsub watch but I wasn’t happy with a number of things. Mods that have been made: Although the HR case does have fixed bars, they are the wrong diameter, being too narrow. I drilled them out and fitted correct spec 2mm stainless round bar. It is solid just using a press fit and didn’t require any soldering. I fitted a Clarks Tropic 19 crystal which has a different profile to the HR crystal. Although the HR bezel insert does have a serif font, the width of the bezel markers is noticeably too narrow. I bought an insert off eBay that has more accurate markings and still has a serif font. It turns out that it is a Phong insert. I swapped out the bezel pip, which was a bit strange looking, for an Athaya one, which I added aged lume to. The watch originally had the stock HR aged dial and hands which are good. However, I’ve always preferred the maxi dial, so I asked HR if they could get a maxi dial 5517 dial made. I have to say that dealing with them was excellent. They were able to get me a dial custom printed and aged and the result is exactly what I was looking for. Custom printing by the dial factory was $95 + $49 for the dial + $25 for aging. I got another set of hands to match and trimmed the end of the second hand which was too long. Unfortunately the minute hand and the second hand extend too far across the minute markers but I haven’t been able to source correctly sized hands, so this is not as accurate as I would like. I then added an Athaya 702 crown and a Phoenix NATO in admiralty grey, as per original milsub issue. Even though each mod adds a small change to the overall watch, I feel that the combination of them improves the feel and appearance of the watch over the stock watch. I’m sure that there are things that could be further improved but for the moment I’m happy enough with the outcome of my first project.

Thanks. That’s great information there. I didn’t know that the rocking action is normal on a gen rolex. I’ve never had the good fortune to wear one, unfortunately.

Cheers for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Here are my thoughts and some of the current crop of 126600 seadwellers. I’m by no means an expert, so these are my basic observations. I currently have 3 different 126600s. I bought the first cheaper version from BP when that was released. Obviously there were a number of issues with that version such as the wrong bracelet width, small font on the insert and the wrong pearl size, shape and height. I haven’t been fortunate enough to see a gen 126600 in the flesh, so my observations are based on comparisons with photos and videos of the gen which obviously doesn’t compare to seeing the real thing. I then bought the BP ‘best’ version when it was released. This addressed the biggest issues, particularly the bracelet width and bezel insert. The pearl on the bezel is lower like the gen but the profile doesn’t look exactly the same as the gen pearl to me. It looks more like a lowered version of a deepsea pearl. The font size and colour seems pretty good and the bezel action is smooth but not too slack, which is good. Recently I also bought the ARF version. For me this is the best version so far. The bezel insert looks particularly stunning. The font colour is lighter and looks much better in low light than the BP best version. The BP colour is lighter than noob v7 but the ARF is lighter than the BP. Also, the font is slightly larger on the ARF bezel but this seems correct when I’ve compared it to gen photos. The BP font is slightly larger than the font on the deepsea v7 but not as large as ARF. The Cyclops on the ARF is also slightly smaller than that on the BP and the magnification seems slightly less. It is true that the bezel teeth are sharper on the ARF compared to the BP and you can feel it when you turn it. On my particular ARF, the bezel action is the most disappointing part compared with the BP. The ARF has more of a rocking action when you press down on it and the action when turned is quite loose and sloppy. I’ve noticed it moving during general daily wear. The action on the BP is much firmer and it does not rock in the same way. This, however, may be just the watch I have. Other ARFs might not have this issue. Both bracelets feel and look good. I’m still in two minds about the 904L thing. At first glance there doesn’t seem to be a difference at all when you compare the 904L and the 316L. However, in certain lights, to me especially in low light, the 904L does seem to reflect the light with more ‘lustre’. I’m not sure if this is an actual difference or wishful thinking. Both the BP best and ARF looked good on the QC pics but on closer inspection once arrived, the cyclops is a tiny bit off being straight and the pearl is not absolutely dead centre on the BP. Everything is spot on on the ARF. There is a difference in the weight of the watches. All the weights are taken with 2 links removed from the bracelets. The original ‘cheap’ BP is 163g, BP ‘best’ is 175g and the ARF is 181g. I have to say that I’ve messed about with the BP cheap version. I swapped out the pearl for an old style one I had hanging around and I swapped the original insert for an old noob deepsea one I had. The insert fit perfectly but it is about half the thickness of the 126600 insert, so it now sits lower down in the bezel a fraction. In all the photos the original cheap BP version is BP1 and it has the white deepsea insert, not its original. Both the BP best and the ARF are great watches but the bezel insert on the ARF is the thing that clinches it for me.

Yes, indeed. Hopefully the wait won't be too long!

Here are my thoughts on the 126600 rep from BP available at the moment. I know it has been slated, in general, but I was intrigued enough about it to take a punt and buy one, mainly because I really like the 43mm size compared with the 40mm sea dweller. The most obvious negative parts have already been highlighted by others, i.e. the bezel pearl is not the new low profile one seen on the 126600 but is raised like the current submariners and 116600 sea dwellers. Also the bezel font is skinnier than it should be on this rep. The other notable thing that is disappointing on this rep is that the bracelet tapers down to 20mm, like the 116600, not down to 22mm, which I think is the bracelet width on the new 126600. The bracelet, and especially the clasp, also feel very flimsy and light on the 126600 rep compared to the 116600 rep that I have, which again was disappointing. The best thing about it, however, is definitely the size, which feels perfect for my 7.5 inch wrist. The dial looks pretty good to me and the date window seems straight and the date seems pretty well lined up. I opted for the A2836 movement, which has kept good time for a couple of weeks now and feels smooth when winding. I decided to have a 'tinker' with the watch to at least change things enough for me to wear it. I swapped the clasp, and as many links as possible, with those from a defunct sea dweller. The watch now feels a lot more solid. I popped out the original pearl and had a go at enlarging the hole in the bezel to try sinking the pearl down but I guess the depth of the pearl didn't allow it to sink down much. I then used a pearl from an old bezel I had hanging around from a vintage sub rep. Although I know this is not the same as the bezel pearl on the 126600, it sits flush to the bezel which is good. It's a rough job and if I'd gone straight to the vintage-type pearl, I probably wouldn't have needed to enlarge the hole, which would have made the whole thing neater. Anyway, I'm wearing the watch as a beater and the size and general proportions feel great. When a more authentic rep emerges, I'll definitely be in line for one of those.

Thank you for all the positive comments people. Much appreciated.

I thought I'd share my initial attempts at putting together a couple of watches. I've only recently started to dip my toe in the rep market but being slightly obsessive about things, dipping my toe in was never going to be enough, so I ended up diving in head first. I've always loved divers and Rolexes, so the Rolex milsub was a perfect place to start. I started by reading all the posts on the forum about people's milsub projects and took things from there. I started by buying a couple of 5517s from dealers with a view to using the cases and any other decent parts to build up at least one fairly good milsub. I then used all the information on this forum to research the various parts that would go towards making at least a half-decent rendition of a 5517. Some of the milsub work documented here is brilliant and this gave me inspiration and something to aim for. I'd never even removed the back of a case from an automatic watch when I started tinkering, so there was a distinct possibility that things would go pear shaped. I bought a cheap set of the various tools that I thought I would need and went from there. The whole experience has been a baptism of fire. Many evenings my wife has had to listen to me screaming and cursing when things have not been going well and to be honest things went badly more than they went well. However, I have learnt a lot from my mistakes. I lost count of the number of times that I ended up crawling on my hands and knees looking for a dropped watch hand or a screw. I've knackered a movement, cracked a couple of crystals, ruined sets of hands and bent a bezel insert so much that it snapped but, like I say, I have learnt a lot from my mistakes and have slowly developed an understanding that working with watches is all about patience and finesse. The result of my ham-fisted tinkering is a couple of milsubs that I know are not perfect but do, at least, reflect aspects of the original and give me decent starting points for further tinkering. Specs: The case on the watch with the fixed lug bars and darker lumed dial is a HR 5517. The case on the watch with the lighter lumed dial is from Joshua. Both dials and sets of hands are from HR. The movement in the darker lumed watch is a Swiss slow beat eta. The movement in the lighter lumed watched is an Asian eta. Both crowns are the ones that came with the cases. On the darker lumed watch, the bezel and insert is from WSO. On the lighter watch, the bezel is from WSO and the insert is from roleyshop on eBay. Both crystals are Clarks Tropic 19. Both straps are Phoenix natos- one in black, one in admiralty grey. I know that the second hands could do with trimming, the bezel pearls should be replaced with acrylic ones, one of the cases needs fixed lug bars and each watch could do with a bit of subtle ageing to improve the overall look. These are things that I'll look at when I've lived with them for a bit. Although intensely frustrating at times, I've found the whole process extremely rewarding. It has all been inspired and guided by the amazing people that have shared their expertise and advice on this forum, so many thanks to all. Apologies for the 'iPad photography'. PS The last photo is my highly disorganised workstation, which I have subsequently sorted out into a state which is not quite so embarrassing...

Hello to all, I'm finding the forum a fantastic place for information, advice, recommendation and opinion, so thank you. I'm on an extremely steep learning curve at the moment but am enjoying the experience. I've found myself in this position by accident really. I've always loved watches and had various Swiss automatics over the years but only ever one at a time. I've always loved the 'tool' watches, particularly divers, so naturally have gazed at the various Rolex and Tudor incarnations over the years. However, I've never been in the position to afford one. Currently, I have an Omega Seamaster America's Cup Chronograph, which I've had for what must have been nearly 20 years. I have never had it serviced at all during that time. Feelings of guilt about the neglect I've shown it recently made me determined to get it done. For that reason, I started to look at reasonably affordable automatic watches that I could buy to wear while my Omega was away having the service. This was a real 'eye-opening' experience. I naturally started looking at Swiss and Japanese watches due to me being familiar with those as a starting point, bearing in mind that I hadn't looked at anything for around 20 years. From there, I started to further investigate 'tool' divers on the web. This completely changed my thoughts about current automatic watches and showed the huge range of exciting products that now exist. From this point, I had well and truly been 'bitten by the bug' again. I started to gain an understanding of the 'indie diver' market and the companies that produce quality automatic 'homage' watches. Over the subsequent few months, I got a couple of Steinharts and a Helson, which all perform as well as any Swiss watch I've owned. As part of my investigations, I came across information about the rep market. This again was a truly eye-opening experience. In my mind, reps were cheap, tacky knock-offs that family members picked up on holiday, which usually resembled something out of a Christmas cracker and lasted for a few weeks at best. Wow...things have changed! Looking at what is being produced now, in terms of range and quality, is truly breathtaking. However, for me this created another dilemma. The idea of having reps of this kind of quality made me feel a little uneasy and made me look at what was being offered for sale as supposedly gen in an entirely new light. This is where this forum has been a fantastic reassurance. Reading about the philosophy of forum and the rules and guidelines made me realise that people here are genuine enthusiasts who have no intention of engaging in any unscrupulous activity but just appreciate the engineering, beauty and excellence of quality watches. Seeing how members will 'call out' people who are attempting to pass things off as gen on popular auction sites, thus saving unsuspecting buyers what could be literally thousands, shows how serious you are about protecting the enthusiast community and the public at large. Seeing the lengths people will go to to modify and perfect pieces, particularly the vintage watches, is amazing and the results are stunning. I am looking forward to continuing my journey and further developing my knowledge and understanding and by turning to this forum I can feel confident that I will be in the presence of genuine experts who clearly have the members' best interests at heart, so again, thank you!