vlaletom

this is a very good link for 1675 reference : http://oysterpassion.fr/6.html

It is in french but what really mater is a front shot of every dial evolution.

the french text detail each little evolution of the dial.

The dial you have, being "glossy" and with yelow marking (glit) would be pre 1963/1964.

Hoever there is no "rail" on the minuts marker, no line under officialy certified, nor hyphen between oyster and perpetual, so it is not looking like any particuliar model.

But don't wory as there is so many exeption with rolex, i wouldn't bother that much.

Just it should be looking like an early model, so the small hand & older band.

Globaly i think your watch looks very nice, and is in a totally other ligue than basic reps.

But with the dial you got i could sugest you a few things

This dial is from early models. (1565 not 1575)

on vintage the crown is not even a 6mm it's a 24-530, 5.30mm , the one you find on lady oyster case.

but if you go that route there will be a serious gap between the crown & crown guard, maybe not a good idear.

With this dial i "think" you need a small gmt hands.

The band is not correct, i doubt there was 78360 back then, of course it could/would have been changed by service center, but if you whant it too look like a colector piece go for a 7806(riveted) or a 6251 (jubile).

this is just a few sugestion to go even further....

Actually the crystal from mbw is not so good. And it is higly sugested to buy a remplacement one form clarks(nostalgia 2000) on ebay, wich is a very good cheap alternative to gen.

for the gen there are many variation of the crystal used.

But you can classify them in 2 main familly

"rounded tropic 39" aka superdome. wich is the original crystal whatch where delivered with.

and "flat top tropic 39" which is the replacement cristal for service, this one has came in many tinny variation thrue the years, mostly conserning the beveled edge between the vertical and horizontal part of the cristal.

The rounded form is much more resistant to preshure, and therefore was originaly used.

But after some time Rolex must have considered that the flated form was quite capable to resiste 660 meter, and was less subject to difraction...

hope this helps

Imho the new movement line ar gorgeous, very simple, classy and well finished.

Let's face it, if paneai were not going to real horlogerie, they would fade away, as any "fashon" item.

They would have been hipe for 5-10 year, with the new "big watch" trend and a really cool original design, but what hapens to them when in 5 year when the trend reverse back to small watch ?

You cannot justify 5k€ for an 6497 watch whos design is mostly plain and simple.

the new line keeps enough of the brand spirit, but allow them to not only be a case maker (whos design is now mostly unprotected by copyright)

For the history ... i love old PAM as they really show the patina of time. But old pam are olmost as much Rolex history as OP.

And speaking of "history"

The history of italian navy, is somthing i'd rather not think too much about ...

I am building a few vintage homage, with 616 or angelus, but i would certainly not whant engraving of german combat navy on it. Why not a few SS engraving while we are at it ...

That an aspect of PAM history not so cool imho, and i dont understand the frenzie on those model.

@nick1972.

you need any watch that was originaly holding a ref 1575 movement, and that nowaydays have low value.

that would be : 1500,1501 1600 1601.

the 1503 being gold cased is out of the ligue.

you can expet to find a watch head only, with silver ring and flat top 3 for around 600-700

@ vlaletom

You beat me to it...

this probably the one and only time i will ever beat you to somthing related to oiling

to add to what i just said.

when you see The Zigmeister precision works in luming a dial, it will give you just an idear of what expertize a watchmaker has in handling such evil things as a black oiler ....

@ JMB

Your better off using L&R or Zenith watch cleaning solutions specifically designed for ultrasonic cleaners. You could also use Stoddard solvent and rinse with Methly Hydrate or Denatured Alchool. I use L&R cleaners and rinses.

As the master said.

If you are in euro, in some country like france L&R are not distributed, but you will then find Elma range of product.

Elmasonic cleanear, and Rubisol for cleaning and F80 to rince (used to be F45 but it has been dicontiued)

On the oiling note, as The Zigmeister said, this is the most challenging ting to do in a typical service.

I am just an aprentice, but i am now very confident witha basic ETA 28xx... I have no skill to build parts, but i have assembled & disasssembled many many ETAs.

When it comes to oling, it is still so hard for me.

Picking up the exact amount on the black oiler is a pain, you need to pick up from as little as the very end of the tip, to about olmost the full tip, depending on the part, and trust me the tip is soooo small.

I try to do things correctly, so i somtime have to retry 15 times befor i am satisfied with the oling of one of the balance cap jewel.

And each time you fail, you have to clean it again, befor retrying ....

But if all this doesn't discourage you, i sugest you do the timezone course, to know where to oil, what oil to use, and what amount you need for each part.

I am felling like sharing some ongoing project htat i am quite exited about

I have dicided to go gen dial for 3 of my franken, and so update my 1675, 1655 and 1665.

here are dials sitting next to theire motors (respectively 1575, 1575 gmt, 1675 gmt)

from the first pics can you say wich is gen an wich is rep ?

Ok i know pics are not that good, but i don't have time to set up my lightbox...

Now some gen to rep comparaison

Gen 1675 vs NDT

Gen 1665 GW vs NDT DR

The mighty GW

And least but not last a perfect brand new service 1655

I wish i had found a good tritium one, but everything i have found latly was either abovthe the 2k€ mark, or really damaged.

I'll come back with pics of complated project.

for now the old NDTs will probably go in some mbw...

thanks for looking

I would say that if it was a 100% gen shop-bought Rolex, which had then (for whatever reason) had to have a generic ETA fitted, that it would still be a real Rolex, but, I think there would then always be the answer, to "Is it real?" "Yes, but the movement is a replacement, not the original..." Where on the other hand, if it was built with all gen parts, but not by Rolex Manufacturing, then I don't think it could every truly be considered a gen, just, custom built with gen parts...

Hum... i see thing slightly diferently...

In my pereception a 100% gen parts rolex assembled by whoever (like me for the exemple), is a real rolex, that just can't get serviced by rolex.

And don't share the same values in a collector eyes as if did live the factory like that, with correct serial, paper, tracking service...

For me it would still be true if it had minor aftermarket part like crystall, gasket, tube, band, stuff like that.

So basically a gen as to be at least : case, dial, movement

On the other hand if your factory rolex had part remplaced with eta, it is not for me a rolex anymore, because rolex is producing, manufacture movement, so that would imply swaping the all movement.

And in watch with manufacture made caliber, the movement is the most important part of it to be seen as gen.

Now if we are talking of a Daytona for example, and you have to remplace some part of the movement with generique valjoux or zenith part, i agree with you that i would still see it as a true gen. Just with the warenty and collector value problem.

Now if you find a rolex movement and put it some no name case, with absolutly no branding, i tend to see it as some sort of rolex watch.

This is more acceptable as an example, if we are talking of a 1920 rolex pocket watch movement, without a RWC case ...

Well in the end this is very subjective, and a matter of personal perception...

As the expert said, a real 618 with correct marking can only be found in a pam or decased from a pam wich is unlikly....

But actually you can get somting very close to a 618.

This for example is more or less a 618 :

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380158554175&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It of course sold for around 2k

Whaow, that is great, this will give much more source for a movement !!!

Fantastic works...

Actually i dont think rolex did the DSSD to have a bigger watch in there range, but rather to recover the record of waterproof deeps.

You have to keep in mind that what rolex market is the "spirt" of diver watch.

That's what they made there reputation on, only few people knows what other inovation they made, but everybody knows that they are THE diver watch...

To come back to the topic focus :

I don't see how a watch, that comes with a true manufacture movement, can be considered as gen if it doesnt have the gen movement, if all parts are gen on a rolex expet the ETA inside, this is certainly not a rolex.

So for most rolex only the pre 2000 chronograph would be arguable (valjoux/zenith).

I, as many watch freeks, olso think that rolex lost his true spirit, and now focus on selling jewelery.

But, they are certainly not going to have any trouble in the near future.

For what i know, rolex main source of income is not even comming from watch, but rather from Asset management.

You would be surprised, to know how much land poperty, the compagny owns, and how many building they have in geneva ....

Your wish will come true sooner than you think

Hoho, seams like somthings comming...

Now i am getting very curious.

/me must not leave rwg nor fall asleep anymore ...

Well, since I'm pretty good at having something to say when there's nothing nice to say, I'll reply.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing some images but the ones posted don't look like anything. I'm not sure what they're supposed to be nor what you're asking of us. Are we interested? In what? A bad computer generated something? No- not very interested really. Maybe you'll post some updates or something to make it interesting but so far, I don't even know why I'm posting a reply.

Haha i actually had a good laugh, in reading this.

@OrenG , relax , nothing to get nervous about, no personal attack here, it is jus writen to be funny, and it is.

I must admit i didn't understood neither what we are looking at...

Handsome macro pics ...

The 196 probably my favorite modern pam with the 111 sandwitch ...

even if i prefer the vintage one.

but is this a 250 ?

One day i hope to get my hand on a 7753 powered one.

He had a 1575 GMT movement a couple months

i played on his last 1575 gmt, the auction finished the 15/09/09

it ended up at 2475 USD, wich i was not ready to pay for.

I was rather surprised as i consider this really above the general market value, specially for a non serviced one.

In my books the curent market average price is around 1950$

Very nice

where did you have the engraving done ?

Well i have found a source for that 225 wheel

Not cheap but if it can save your whole V72 it well worth it...

+ it's rolex packaged

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Genuine-Rolex-Daytona-Chrono-Part-mvmt-72A-727-6263_W0QQitemZ120460647532QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0c039c6c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

shear-time ....

ho yhea i have him in my favorite sellers, for shure

He has allways tose incredible rolex thing like DRSD or dayto dials.

But his auction allways hit big price, which is normal considering the kind of things he comes up with...

I guess this movement wont end cheap.

you'd better find a 1500/1501/1600/1601 watch head... they often sell for cheaper than a naked movement.

+ you can get it with a flat 3 silver dial !

If this is to clean jewelery, you can have a try.

If this is for watchmaking, forget about it.

I once baught a cheap ultrasonic from ebay in HK.

Well first it atracted custom attention (first and only time it ever happened to me), and i had to pay taxe.

That cheaper unit was solid stell and certainly more powerfull than the one you picture.

But i didn't found it good enough.

I actually ended up, giving it for free to some menber on rwg1 ...

Now i have an elmasonic, and it's like night and day, of course the price is not in the same range.

Here in france L&R arent on the market, theire solution neither, Elmasonic is the professional brand, and we use Rubisol and F80 as cleaning solution...

So you may have a shot on this one, but beware of large postage coming from HK !

well the website says it's shinmeigu.

but the "contact" link is not the same email.

Seams they are "partners".

so mailed shinmeigu thrue ebay to know if it was he's site, and didnt get a clear answare.

this is what i asked :

hey thanks for reply.

I just whanted to make shure you where afiliated with www.deluxemovements.com web site.

And whanted to cross check that buying from the site contact was safe.

this what i goted:

Hi!

Thanks for checking, feedback and reputation are important.

I am away at a jewelry show right now, but off the top of my head, I don't think I have this movement.

I will check when I come back, so maybe in a few days or a week I can let you know.

Cheers,

Kevin

Humm i guess he was aknowledging it was his site, but the partner on the web said he could find the movement i whanted...

Call me paranoid, but i am not totally in confidence yet, it would be easy to put online a web page and use some respected ebayer name on it...

I'll have to mail again just to be 100% positive

Heya

Little question:

I was wondering if anybody had ever ordererd anything from : www.deluxemovements.com

I am tempted to order a few things from them.

But i don't like too much to send money somwhere without knowing if the site is safe.

Didn't found any info about them..

so if anybody ever heard of them, let me know.

i have seen my first rep in 1984, a fake cartier that a friend had at school. (in france)

Later on that same year i spent the vacation in N.Y. baught my first in canal street.

It was a SS datjust, on ajubille band, and was quartz powered. I think it lasted a few year ...

The funny thing is that like 15 year later i did buy a gen ss datejust, on oyster band this time.

So yes rep leads to gen, hehe

It's around 5 year ago that i saw my first mechanical and waterproof rep, that a friend had baught in turkey.

I then started didging the web, was scamed for 120$, on somme site i dont remember, for an explorer 1.

And then discovered RWG1 & TRC....

Sure it's possible to modify a slow-beat movt to run a GMT function, but it requires watchmaker's skill ("swapping some parts around" makes it sound much easier than it is) and even then it's not exactly ultra-reliable. RepAustria did it on a 1655 I remember.

But for the majority of 1655 reps using a 2836, the 28.8k bph is noticeably much faster/smoother than the gen. calibre.

honestly this is an easy swap.

I have a 1655 that i did this way : here

I even think i did a post about the swap long time ago (maybe on rwg1).

You need the gmt module from a basic rep (like josh or trusty)

And then get a slow beat 2846 used watch on the bay (expect around 40€).

I can re post pictures of the gear transplant if intersted.

but that wont solve all the problem.

most basic rep will have a 7mm crow.

so when swaped to a 6mm the gap will look obvious.

and the crown wont align as it should be...

the basic rep case will let a gen tropic 116 sit to high, and therefore the date mag will be too strong ...

and so on ...

so a resonably budgeted 1655 project can't be as good as some other vintage model, like a 1680 for example.

that why there are so few perfect 1655 floating around ...