peterhorstmann

Dear Forum, this is probably the last update on the Smiths DeLuxePlorer! Since last time I fittet an acrylic crystal and a rivet bracelet. I anticipated all sorts of problems with the crystal, but it worked out on the first try and looks beautiful! I measured the case neck and bezel once I removed the saphire glass and found that the Sternkreuz XS 306.449 for Rolex TROPIC 21 might be a fit: So I ordered one from Gleave & Co in London (I can't wait to visit that store in person, from the pictures it looks very old world!) and it just slid in place, with some gentle force of course: It made a huge difference to the watch. Finally the dial is visible and not obscured by all sorts of reflections. And it matches the case perfectly, even extending at the same bevel angle that the bezel has. It's hard to photograph with a phone... But I sometimes get lost just looking at the way the crystal diffracts the light...I'm sure people in this forum know what I mean. On a Phoenix NATO (very british): And on the Riyi Rivet (which is great... wish the clasp was a bit nicer though but I tell myself that's what clasps were like in the 60s): I also put it back into the pressure tester and it's still water proof up to 9bar (as high as I dare to go). It's not been an easy or fast project but each time I check my wrist for the time it makes me happy and am reminded of the past year, strange as it was. Thanks to anyone who's given me advice and encouragement.

Yes thanks that's what I thought too. I also found an image of what is supposed to be a 1610 but it looks very different from a DJ case and it is gold, so no way the bracelet is intended for that... Cheers mate, I appreciate the kind words! The watch looks great! Similar theme to mine. I got the case from Riyi and I'm happy with it so far (although I don't know yet if it's water resistant.... that's next on the list)

Thanks Automatico! Really interesting I need to think about this and make some drawings to see if I understand... On a different note: I have my eyes on an oyster rivet bracelet, this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20mm-Solid-Stainless-Steel-Rivet-Type-Replacement-Bracelet-For-Vintage-Watches/274228377318?hash=item3fd948f6e6:g:nO4AAOSwq1leLTxn I know that I can usually make folded endlinks fit somehow but since this is not really cheap it would be great to know that the endlinks fit. The seller says the endlinks are made to fit a 1610 case and not a 1016. Is the 1610 case one where the case is made flat between the lugs? So is that hopeless to fit it?

Thanks for the kind words! Thanks Automatico for the amazingly detailed advice! Why does the case neck size matter for the crystal? I thought that just sits in the bezel, in which case the bezel ID would be the relevant dimension here?

Dear Forum, happy new year! It took two lockdowns and a christmas holiday to finish this, but the watch is finally on my wrist and ticking away happily! I finished it a few hours before the new year so I could count down to midnight on the new watch which was very special. It took a while to get everything to fit... I had a friend in our workshop at work laser cut me a 150µm spacer which I put between the dial and the dial seat. It's thin enough not to be visible. I still need to grease the gaskets. It has three, one on the caseback and two on the screw down crown. I'm sure there must be many posts on how to waterproof a watch properly on this forum, can anybody point me towars one? I cant seem to get the search function to work for me (probably searching the worong keywords...). And then I'll take it to a Timpsons and get the waterproofness checked. I think they can do up 5ATM. It runs about 10-15 sec fast per day which I can live with. Things I still want to do are get a domed crystal for it. The one on there is flat and protrudes the bezel a bit which just doesn't look right to me. A single domed acrylic crystal would be period correct right? Don't know yet, I might also go with Sapphire. I'm hoping a domed crystal will also help a bit with the legibility... The flat glass does reflect a lot of light. I found a great seller on ebay uk who made me single layer vintage stype strap for it in a custom length. I think it looks great on the watch and is probably close to what such a what could have come with in the 50s (I like to think). If somebody wants to know the seller please PM me! And then I still want a nice bracelet for it. I am trying to get a riveted oyster style bracelet. I might go for the one that you can buy for the new Smith's watches and then hack the solid end links into place somehow! That's it for now. Thanks again for all the help I got here!

Thanks @automatico, that's excellent info. The idea with chopping up a feeler gauge is great, just ordered one. That's also useful for making a makeshift spacer to find out what height I need. I'll probably just stick stacks of feeler gauge sheet to the spacer ring that came with the movement to shim it higher. Unfortunately I don't have access to a lathe at the moment... I wish I did, they seem to be essential to this kind of watch tinkering! (And a mill for drilling those lugholes through, which I still want to do at some point) And yes thankfully the case has grooves for countering the case clamps. No idea how I would fix the movement in place otherwise! I know that both my Seiko 5s don't have case clamps, I think they just have a pushfit movement spacer ring which locks everything in place. And the dial is fixed to he movement somehow.

Okay quick update! Of course I made the mistake of removing the stem while it's in the winding position which screwed up the keyless works. Embarassing, didn't do enough reading... But with the help of the internet I managed to rebuild the keyless works, which was daunting but felt pretty good once successfully completed! For doing that I had to remove the day and date wheel and while I was at it I also removed some more parts of the calendar works. Now the stem in the day/date changing position just turns freely, which is exactly how I wanted it. I then used a Dremel to remove the massive dial feet off the dial and could then fit everything for the first time: So far so nice, however, the movement sits too low by quite a bit, which I did expect because the dial is convex: (note how the stem is not centered in the crown tube) So I need to shim the movement such that it sits higher. I'm planning on making a ring which goes between the dial spacer and the dial. I hope the cannon pinion and hour wheel will be tall enough! If they aren't, I can also make a spacer to sit in the dial seat between the case and dial. That might be visible and look weired though... Not sure yet how I'll make the spacer ring. Happy for suggestions! I might need to bribe the guys at work operating the laser cutter into helping me...

Nevermind, I get it now. The crown has a spring in it that does that. Steep learning curve right here...

Such a stunning piece of engineering! Almost too pretty to hide behind stainless steel... So if I later decide to remove the calendar works, would I just remove the circlip (48), lift the day wheel off and then pull the date wheel sideways gently until it's free? I think I fould a video on youtube where someone shows that, but it's a bit hard to see. Do I then need to remove the parts 44, 45, 46 via screws 100 and 108 or is it better to leave those mechanics in place?

The Sellita SW220 arrived from Switzerland today! It's an absolute piece of fine art... I will post pictures later today. I have one question already: I expected the stem to have one position furthest in (if that makes sense, pushed all the way into the movement) where it has some wiggle room in and out and rotates freely, so that it disenganges while screwing down the crown. But it appears that the furthest-in position is the handwinding position in one direction and ratcheting very finely in the other direction. Am I missing something? Thanks for tuning in!

@ JSebWC: Thanks, I appreciate that! @ automatico: that makes sense what you say about compressing the gasket, but I guess one benefit to tightening strongly is less risk of the case back coming loose? I feel like the cleanest way to close the watch would be using one of these dyes? But I have no idea if that would fit to the oyster case replica I have...

Thanks for your answer! Not what I expected... Does that really have enough grip to tighten the case back watertight? I guess the risk is low: if it doesn't work it'll just go over to the kids.

nevermind my question about the case back tool, I found this excellent thread: https://rwg.cc/topic/102236-waterproof-or-not-a-guide-to-help-your-rep-survive-the-drink/

Quick update: I'm waiting for the Sellita movement and hands to arrive from Switzerland any day now and also the brass movement ring from Raffles. In the mean time, can somebody tell me what tool I need to tighten the case back? Pipe wrench? Just kidding! Also, does somebody know of a nice oyster bracelet in the sub-50£/$ bracket? I'd like to get one with solid end links but don't know if the case I have is close enough to the real thing for those to fit? I'm tempted to order the one that the new smiths come with: It's a rivited one with solid end links, milled clasp and an embossed smiths logo on the clasp but again I don't know how likely it is to between the lugs of my case... Cheers for now.

I think Rolex 6204 hands would also look good in silver, but I couldn't find those yet...

Thanks for your answer! I think my understanding is correct then. Whether the hour hand will have enough clearence from the dial I don't know... If it doesn't, do cannon pinions come in different heights? So that I could swap the stock one for a taller one? The case came with a movement ring, that's blue in my drawing. However, it's plastic and not very nice, so I am considering getting one from Raffles/ebay made of brass. I think that would be much nicer, but I need to compare the dimensions still. You're right that the feet of the dial are nowhere near the correct location or thickness. I thick I'll need to clip/file them off and hope the dial won't move around... When I get the movement I'll probably order hands at the same time. I'm aiming at seringe hands like the old smiths had, but they seem to be rare! I'm considering these, the black ones specifically: But I'm afraid the lume will look too green in day light? Does anybody know of other seringe hands options for ETA 2836?

Thanks for the encouraging words and advice, I've come to the right place! I'm pretty much sold on the idea of getting the Sellita SW220. I know a vintage low-beat, hand wound movement would be more authentic, but this is not an exact replica of anything so I think I'm okay with this violation! Also I am hoping for reliability and ease of service should it be necessary. Before I order one, could somebody confirm that my understanding of the spacers and all are accurate? I made this sketch to illustrate how I think I can make things line up. So if I'm not mistaken, then a thicker dial spacer than the one supplied with the movement will make things work with the domed dial? And yes I agree that if I go this route I will be happy to have a longer post for the hands, as this will move the hands further away from the dial. Otherwise they might be too close. My other question relates to removing the day and date wheel works. Is it necessary to remove them? I'd prefer to do it, especially if that means the crown positions for quicksetting them would no longer exist. But I'm not sure if this will be the case and how hard it is to remove them. Last question: do I need to fix the dial to the movement spacer? Or do the movement clamps fix everything in place sufficiently? If it's necessary to fix things, I could glue at this point: That's it for now. Thanks for your help! @ Justasgood, funny enough I think we have both those lubricants in the lab where I work. I might be able to "borrow" some there! @ alligoat yea I agree, timefactors has a lot of cool stuff!

Dear Forum, sorry for the bad pun in the title... I'm in the process of putting together my first watch and wanted to show off some pictures of the status and perhaps get some expert opinions here or there! Here is the story: I was browsing the web for explorer homages and found timefactors, a UK microbrand which owns many of the old english watch maker brands. Under the old "Smiths" name, they are making a really nice 36mm explorer 1016 homage called the Everest: (https://www.timefactors.com/smiths.htm) They also make the same watch with the original Smiths logo: Looks beautiful I think. I got interested in the connection between Smiths and the 1016, and it turns out both watches accompanied Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay on their ascent of Everest in 1953. Here is a picture of the original Smiths: (https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/smiths-edmund-hillary-pattern) Now, the sane thing to do yould be to order one of the Smiths from timefactors and have it done with, however... I always find that I have the biggest and longest lasting appreciation for things that put togther myself and so that's the route I am hoping to take. So... I found a nice patina-ed vintage Smiths deluxe dial on ebay and it's much nicer in real life than in this picture: I think this is from a dressier Smiths watch rather than one of their field watches, but I really like it. The pattern reminds me a bit of the pre-Explorer Rolex 6298 Precision, or maybe of the new white dialed Seiko Alpinists. Next I got a 36mm oyster case from ebay, after someone here on the forum kindly encouranged me to trust in it's waterproofability. The case arrived really fast after only two weeks from China and looks amazing. Of course I had to make a quick mock-up to see how things look, and here are some pictures from today: (There pictures don't do the reality justice, I didn't know how hard it is to take good pictures of a watch...) Of course, nothing works yet. There is no movement inside and the hands are from another watch and not attached to anything. But I think it looks quite good! This might be no news to the people on this forum but man are these 36mm oyster cases elegant... So next to do is find a movement and hands and I am hoping to get some help with choosing here. The case is designed for an ETA 2836. Now, from what I understand, the difference between the ETA 2824 and the 2836 are in the movement height and the speed at which the date changes. The latter I don't care about for obvious reasons. The movement height, however, makes me think. I understand that this is in principle important because you want the crown hole in the case to line up with the winding stem hole in the movement (sorry if I'm messing up the terminology, is this hole in the movement called the keyless works?). But does this lining up not depend strongly on the thickness of the dial? In my case the dial is domed a bit, so I suspect that the movement, if fitted flush to the backside of the dial, is slightly to high in the case. I am thinking I might need a spacer, but if I start messing with spacers then I might as well buy the cheaper ETA 2824, which is smaller in height? As for the movements, I have my eye on the sellita SW220 (if I go 2838) or SW200 (if I go 2824) and I found this swiss seller on ebay who sells both. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOVEMENT-AUTOMATIC-SELLITA-SW220-1-TOP-GRADE-BLUE-SCREWS-COMPATIBLE-ETA-2836/132962868592?hash=item1ef5345d70:g:1msAAOSwW9NZ4A1t I figured the chance of these just working out of the box without requireing a costly service after 6 weeks of running is higher than with a chinese movement? If I buy a chinese seagull ETA 2836 clone and need to get ot serviced, the price will be similiar to what the sellita costs new. Does this make sense? Also... the vanity of wanting a swiss movement... The dial obviously does not have the right feet to fit into an ETA movement, so I need to figure that out to. The case came with a movement ring. Could I just glue that onto the back of the dial? Or should I use these sticky dial dots? Hands: to be decided. Seringe hands like in the vintage smiths would be great. Drilled-through lug holes: do watch makers do this or are they going to kick me out of the store? I find it would suit the tool watch look of the watch perfectly and it's convenient of course. what do I need to do to get the watch waterproof? Ideally to 10ATM. I work with ultra high vacuum apparatus, so I know a thing or two about finding and removing leaks, but this is different I feel. Do I need to grease the gaskets? Also the ines in the threaded crown? I'd like to get an oyster bracelet for the watch at some point. The same seller who sold the case to me has some (I suspect this is raffles dials really), does anybody know if these are nice? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20MM-OLD-STYLE-SOLID-STEEL-RIVET-OYSTER-BAND-BRACELET-FOR-36MM-EXPLORER-WATCH/353071310141?hash=item5234b0a53d:g:Bo0AAOSwIJdbgyq7 That's it for know! I'm eager to know if you think this is a ridiculous plan or perhaps totally impossible. And I am really greatfull for any advice or pep talk!

Cool thanks. Will be interested to see fotos of your watch post-plague!

Thanks for the fast reply, that sounds good! Does anybody have experience with that particular case and perhaps some close up pictures? The pics on ebay are not very detailed.

Dear Forum, I love watches and tinkering and thought it would be a fun project to put a watch together by myself. Since this is completely new to me I am hoping to get some help somewhere in the depths of this forum! So my plan is to make a 36mm explorer-style watch with this case from ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNBRANDED...53.m1438.l2649 And get a seagull 2836 movement for it. I would like to find some nice old watch dial from ebay (something cheap and with lot's of patina and character!) I'm sure I'll have a few questions as I go along and am happy to document the build here with plenty of pictures, but for now I would like to know if someone has handled the case I linked above. Is this the same case that is sold on raffles-dials? The pictures look the same and the text and price are identical. What I wonder is if this case can be made 100m (ish) water resistant? This is my main question right now. It looks like it has a screw down crown, which is great. The seller just said it would be waterproof enough for the bathtub and doing dishes, but I suspect he does not want to guarantee anything which I understand. I would love to make a watch that I can wear everywhere, at the beach, while sailing or skiing or camping or whatever and I think this is what the explorer should be used for! I know there must be info on these cases here somewhere and I am happy to repost the question there but perhaps someone can direct me towards that area of the forum? Thanks! Peter