Pam 050 - Looking to purchase and mod one

[alanytical]

I wanted to get an SS bracelet model and have a smaller wrist. I think a 40mm would be better suited for me, and it seems that the 0050 looks pretty accurate and might be a good project.

I might also reconsider going for a 44mm SS "Daylight" chrono, because it also looks pretty accurate. Although I've noticed that the bezel numbers w/ black paint they use can sometimes smear and look bad, and of course the date font and dial depth problem. The other 44m bracelets are off because of the half titanium in the gens.

Here are some questions I had:

1. Are the 00050 models that are floating around the different vendors here possibly from the same factory? Meaning, it wouldn't really matter who I choose it from per say. (I understand that there is a heated debate about trust and honesty with some "cartel" vendors and all) I just wanted to know if the product would basically be the same across the board or could one have a better rep than another.

2. How close to accurate do you think it is to the gen, and what mods would I need to consider to make my franken watch look top notch? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

3. I definitely want to super lume it and hear that the Zigmeister is the main man. Would luming it change the color or make it look like flawed in the sunlight? Any other master lumers for North America region I should seek? (PM me if you'd rather)

Thanks a mil guys.

[t]

i think all 050 are the same... never saw big differences

050 is difficult to mod... you can

[wheaton26]

pm sent.

[zaly]

I send my pam 050 to vaccum to relume, and he looks perfect. 100 x 100 recomended. Now Lello has a new date wheel for this model but i am not sure.

[sssurfer]

1. Yes.

But I heard that 050 reps produced before 2006 were somewhat better than more recent ones. If that is true (what I am highly unsure of) then it should be a matter of microns in the boldness of numbers and markers, and in the date font.

2. To me, the 050 is the best out-of-the-box PAM rep (at least in its pre-2006 incarnation).

If you want it perfect, a relume and a new AR coat are the only needed steps.

I don't even feel that replacing the datewheel and/or cyclops is necessary.

3. The Zigmeister is your man. Just, if you want a perfect color, ask him to use a 3/4 C3 + 1/4 C1 mix. The Zigmeister usually goes with C3.

[verbal]

1. 100% NO, i know for a fact. I've bought my first PAM050 from Eddie late 2005 for a mere US$ 450 -talk about prices heh-. that broke last summer, since it was one of my favourites, I bought a replacement from Paul-Mart for US$200+ and was amazed by the differences of the two.

-Different type movement (I guess slow beat vs fast beat, not sure but the finish on Eddie's was way better)

-Different datefont, horrible on Paul-mart's version but the crystal had a better magnification oddly enough

-Case finish waaaay better on Eddie's, 'crisp' edges excellent modelled

-no difference on dial printing though

-crown guard on Eddie's snaps in like a genuine, Paul-Mart had the floppy lever syndrome and felt flimsy

-Eddie's lasted two years, Paul-Mart lasted 4 months.....

Fair enough, that was two years ago vs. last summer, a lot of things changed and prices dropped, so has quality and QC.

I guess nowdays there are one or two factories out there producing them (sometimes serial numbers are different between the two, could indicate different factories)

2. I think the 050 is still the best out of the box rep you can get.!

3. Send it to The Zigmeister, you can't go wrong with him, you'll be amazed by the result

Good luck

[sssurfer]

Really thanks to verbal for making clear issues I was very unsure about.

[verbal]

Really thanks to verbal for making clear issues I was very unsure about.

Anytime, seems that after the so called 'closed factory SMP' there's also a 'closed factory 050' around

[archibald]

The 50/51 has the potential to be one of the top 3 or 4 PAM reps in terms of accuracy. Out of the box, the case, CG, and crown are nearly 1:1, the caseback is accurate and individually numbered, the datewheel is printed w/ the correct font, and the flaw (the A's) is less noticeable on the 50/51 than on the 44mm PAMs. The only real flaws are lack of AR and slightly deficient date mag.

I lucked out and ran accross an OEM 40mm CG for my 51, but that is by no means an essential mod--the only function it serves is making the crown look slightly more accurate: the rep's crown is exactly as thick of the gen crown but looks about 1/2mm thinner because the "gap" in the rep CG is bigger than on the gen CG.

Mine is at The Zigmeister now to have a Watchmen cyclopsed/Brian ARed crystal installed, a relume, and a case rebrush. When I get it back, it's going on an OEM brown crock strap w/ OEM brushed deployant, which I hope will make a 49 that's a couple tiny, tiny "A's" away from indistinguishable from gen.

Pics as soon as it'ds done, but here are a couple of the unmodded watch w/ the OEM CG installed.

[sssurfer]

Mine is at The Zigmeister now to have a Watchmen cyclopsed/Brian ARed crystal installed

You may espect excellent results, archibald. Have a look here.

Btw, thanks for the excellent 050/051 review!

[donpedro]

Hi all!

My first post here - thought I'd chime in!

I got my 048 (same watch as the 050, except for the strap) from Trusty a while back and have been using it frequently. Here are my thoughts:

Plus side:

- Very well built. Really has the feel of the original.

- Case + CG + crown very close to the original.

- Runs like a champ. Went a little fast the first week, but since then it's amazingly accurate.

- Will fool ANYONE who hasn't owned the original or deals with PAM's by profession.

Minus side:

- Floppy lever, although the fitting is very nice.

- Lack of AR.

- Date mag a bit weak + date font off (though I personally think the rep font looks better than the bolder original).

- Lack of decent lume.

- If you look closely, you can see tiny "whiteish" edges around the numbers and markers.

Overall a very nice rep! Attaching a picture - but it doesn't do it justice at all. Looks very "flawed" compared to in the flesh.

Does anyone know if anyone sells a fully modded 40mm by the way? Who sells the best out-of-the-box 40mms?

Kind regards,

donpedro

Edited September 8, 2007 by donpedro

[zenpang]

hold on does the gen 050 even have AR? i was under the impressions it doesnt, plus according to SSurfer, the single sided AR cant even be distinuguished apart from effectively removing the date mag reflection. Can someone please clarify this.

Thanks

Edited September 8, 2007 by zenpang

[yachtmaster]

hold on does the gen 050 even have AR? i was under the impressions it doesnt, plus according to SSurfer, the single sided AR cant even be distinuguished apart from effectively removing the date mag reflection. Can someone please clarify this.

Thanks

Great post and old one but can someone clarify this for us as well? Thanks~

[sssurfer]

Great post and old one but can someone clarify this for us as well? Thanks~

The 050 has single side AR -- as all the PAMs after B series, and with exception for plexi models.

[yachtmaster]

The 050 has single side AR -- as all the PAMs after B series, and with exception for plexi models.

Your awesome~ thanks!

[shammy4]

Hi everybody,

I've been scouring the forums for a while now and can't seem to get answers to my noobie questions (I've been collecting for a while but never delved into modding or repairing) so I was really excited when I saw this thread. If anybody out there can help me, it'd be much appreciated. Here goes:

I have a PAM 049 and 050 that I absolutely love (I have skinny wrists so my 44MM and Fiddy aren't my daily beaters). I got both from Andrew in October of 2006 and both arrived with really floppy crown guard levers. I was lazy and never got around to asking him about it and didn't unwrap or start wearing them until 2007 so I lost my window for an exchange.

-The black faced one stopped working reliably (would start to lose chunks of time unless always moved to wind). Is this movement fixable if serviced?

-Who out there will service both my watches? I know that The Zigmeister is one of the best but I don't have a good enough track record to get his attention. If anybody knows of a watchsmith who can help me in the US, please let me know.

-If I get the movements serviced, what is the expected lifespan? I'd love to get a swiss movement to keep it around a while but I read that wasn't possible. I love these watches and since they seem to be tough to find, I'd have to chuck them if the movements give out. Do they die even if serviced?

-Lastly, who can fix the crown guard levers? I was looking on the forums and it may be that the gasket/o-ring is missing because the levers don't stay in at all (in fact I'm wearing one that has no lever at all).

Sorry for the long post but any help would be greatly, greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[sssurfer]

The movements in the 048/049/050/051 rep are Asian 7750 from year 2005 or 2006. At that time getting a good 7750 was a matter of [pretty] good luck.

But, as on the 048/049/050/051 the 7750 is used with no chrono functions, chances are 99.9% that a good servicing will fix it. Then it should work smoothly for years. If you get it serviced again each couple of years, even better.

If The Zigmeister does not reply you, you may want to consider rex450 from RepGeek.

Unfortunately, AFAIK no modder or watchsmith is willing to work on case parts like the crown guard. You will have to fix it by yourself. I'll now assume that you have a "floppy lever in closed position" problem, that is completely different (and nastier) from the "floppy lever in open position" problem.

An easy but less-than-perfect fix is just by adding a gasket as you said.

This works only if the room between the crown and the lever is very thin, and it will also leave you with a crown slightly too far from the case.

The best fix is by carefully filing down the CG feet.

[shammy4]

SSSurfer-

Thanks for the information. I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond. This place is great!

[melu]

Is there anyone out there?

What would you have to change/mod on the newer model of PAM40mm to make it as good as a modded "old school" 40mm?

[w0lf]

Melu,

Check your PM. If you're looking at mainstream offering that josh/andrew/angus/tony and hont have right now you will be disappointed. And here's why, it's ironic but you would have to change the whole watch if you wanted it to look good. The new generation of 40mm models is vastly inferior to the old line circa 2005-2006 in terms of pretty much everything. The only thing the new model has going for it is the the A7750 movement so you can install a better datewheel but even then you will have the weaksauce cyclops to battle with.

Bottom line is - there are only 2 upsides to the new 40mm PAMs - the price (~$270, the old ones were ~$400-450) and the high beat A7750 movement.

Now on to the downsides:

- Horrible case set - believe it or not I've seen a couple that had all 4 lugs shaped slightly differently.

- Wrong dial for 'C' series L S M L instead of L S L on PAM48/50

- The CG is smaller size, the lever pin is placed exactly in the center of the CG and the lever itself has a wrong profile and thickness.

- The bottom part of the CG under the lever is the exact same thickness as the part above the lever (akin to DSN CGs)

- The crown has too thin of a brim around the counterbored dish

- Datewheel font too thin and incorrect for Panerai

- Cyclops is weak

- The caseback is too thin and incorrectly beveled

[jitai]

Check out my review at

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=16270&highlight=compro

The old school PAM48, 50 with " L Swiss L" under the numeral 6 on the dial are rare birds now.

The latest PAM48, 50 from our dealers all have the "L Swiss Made L" which is incorrect for C series. " L Swiss Made L " dial are for K series onwards and comes with roller CG lever and quick release push button at the caseback lug.

However, either version still have the slim DW font.

Hope the info helps

Edited December 19, 2009 by jitai

[jitai]

PAM048 with only Datewheel Mod

[melu]

Beautiful, now to buisness. Where can I get one?

[big e]

Checkout MBW's 40mm. I just got my wife an MBW 049 w/Swiss 7750 and it's incredibly accurate, at least when compard to the other 049 I had previously got for her. I have yet to see any reviews about MBW's 40mm Pam's, but they are out there and worth the price.

[w0lf]

Big E,

I completely agree on MBK/MBW 40mm PAMs, they are the bee's knees in terms of overall accuracy and quality/finish of the case. However, I don't think they come with an ETA7750, just a high beat A7750. Unless you paid ~$1000 for yours I would not expect it to be a gen ETA.

Here's my wife's MBW PAM00048 'K' series: