Bike Mike

My personal opinion if you go into the AD and they take your watch, chalk it up as a loss,tuck your tail and leave. Even though you could get the law involved and get your watch back it really is not going to be worth the $300 or so to replace the rep.

This really has been the point all along. You could get the law involved, but it has the potential to cost you more then $300.

I have seen this a handful of times. Maybe 5-6 times over the course of about 3 years at one AD I go to. Twice I saw the rep owner Try to trade their rep in for a gen. On both accounts the sales person doubted the authenticity but still gave the potential customers the benefit of the doubt. The sales person called the manager over (who I was talking to as he was a personal friend) to take a look at the piece. The manager stated that the watch was “of dubious” origin, but still gave the customers the benefit of the doubt, even asking them for papers and items to prove authenticity. Since they could not provide any type of paperwork, the manager called out one of his watch techs. The tech did not even look over the piece, he simply removed the case back and verified the pieces to be fake in front of the customer and even pointed out why (I know one was a Rolex GMT, the other I do not know). The sales person stated they are confiscating the pieces and asked the customers to leave the premises. Both did a about-face and walked out the front door with their tail between their legs. They said nothing.

The time I saw the rep watch being picked up off the counter by the sales person, and studied, the sales person stated “this watch is fake, we have to confiscate it”. The owner in a very cocky voice said “Yeah. Pretty good one isn’t it.” The sales person tossed it in the box with the rest and nothing more was said, the gentleman walked away.

I just sat their and laugh thinking what dumba$$! Thinking how stupid some people wearing a rep into a AD.

I have gotten to know the assistant manager at my local Tourneaus very well and I have asked him, “What they do if someone comes in sporting a rep.” He simply replied, “If we can verify and take it we will but avoid escalated confrontation.” Jokingly I told him I would bring mine into show him. To which he just replaied, "Go ahead, I will pair it up with the real one and I know you will buy it." I called him a bastard for taking advantage of my weakness.

Being write or wrong this has happened. I live at my AD’s as my friends work their in one way or another so I get to see some good stuff other then just the watches. I also recall this being discussed over at TRC where the same had happened.

Great thread by the way!

Still can not get into this piece (and I want to as I own Zeniths). Maybe if they removed the hexagons & stars fromt he bezel, it would look better.

What you guys have never heard of a "Tovbinllon" complication before? It is the latest thing. All the watch makers are doing it.

Beautiful Lani! I am a Porsche Design nut! My wife started it when she bought me a PD cigar lighter. From then it was a rapid decent down hill for me on ALL their stuff. I fell in love with their watches while at Fryderyk Chopin Airport, in Warsaw, Poland. Seeing your pics, makes me want to get one right away.

They know how accurate reps have become. Look at Hublot's site, they compare gens to the reps to keep thier customers informed. I have seen this same information passed along to their AD's along with other brands following suit. If someone is worried about being called out for wearing a rep, then maybe they should reconsidering wearing it because obviously they are not wearing it for themselves.

7750 movements require 800 TDP to stay fully wound. ETA 28XX movements require 650 TPD. I wind my A7750 same of my Gens with ETA 7750 and have had no issue.

My watchmarker buddy told me about these guys. I have not tried them as build my own winders.

Rocket Box

An Alaskan nail file can also double as a watch box!

An Alaskan Nail File

That is the best pic. I have seen in a while! Nice!

Yes. But there is a vast difference between trying to sell a rep as gen (say at a pawn shop) and simply wearing one on one's wrist whilst visiting an AD. If that person simply puts the watch on the counter while trying on another, then they are not attempting to sell the watch, so not attempting to defraud anyone, so the ADs do not have powers of confiscation and seizure, over what is (although illegal in itself) a legally owned piece of property. What they are doing, quite simply, amounts to theft. It does not matter if they have the staff to verify the authenticity, as unless there is some attempt to perform 'the old switcheroo', or actually sell the rep, there is no crime being committed by the person which warrants a confiscation...

Not disagreeing with you. Just telling you what I have seen. It happens and will continue to happen. As it has been written on this thread, we should not be walking into AD's with our Reps. on. I feel most members here are smart enough to avoid these situations. At the same time I think there are many people out there that own reps and do not know any better. They think they are fooling everyone. These are the people that walking into AD's thinking they are going to fool them, (regardless if they are attempting to defraud or by a Gen piece) and get their pieces confiscated. These are the ones that are unknowledgeable, and more then likely clueless if the AD is within their legal rights or not. For the most part, they feel "Oh sh!t I just got busted", feel so uneasy about getting called out that they panic and walk away. If you put up a fight in the store I am sure the AD would return your property without scene and kindly request you do not return with it. Again, I am yet to see this happen as everyone I have seen, does a about face and walks out the door.

Ronin was just giving everyone a heads up and I spoke of my personal experience. Regardless of it being wrong or right in someone's eyes, there is no point in debating it as it happens and we can only do our part to make sure our hard earned property is protect.

I can relate. I just went though the same dilemma with purchasing new set. I settled on the Horotec drivers in a wood box as my machinist mentality kicks in and reverts back to me all wood tool box. I just feel precision tool require a nicely crafted home to rest in.

Regarding stainless steel blades without getting into a metallurgical breakdown, I would advise against them. 316L SS is typical surgical grade some times you find 440. Stainless is great for holding a sharp edge, but not so much when putting a axial load on it, like the case with a screw driver. Harden steel is a better option. They are brittle, but are tougher and do a better job to hold the edge.

me thinks the main point of this topic is being missed especially if someone were to just register here and starts with this thread

Now all this talk of what could happen legally this way or that, is pretty much in vain.. and to me is just rhetoric ..

because the reality is that out hobby is believe it or not illegal (what a concept huh ?) ... regardless of prospective "rights", or State Law (if in fact each State is autonomous) because the last I checked in the USA Federal laws run parallel across the 50 States ...

and if anyone is going to be lame enough to walk into an AD wearing a rep , no matter how good it "represents" the real deal, he or she should be embarrassed by any action taken against them...

Yes we can talk for day's regarding "Brand infringement" and the pro's and con's of the commissioned associates behind the counter.. but the bottom line is no one should bring unwarranted attention to themselves by wearing a replication or "fake" into an AD !!! Thus showing off their lack of intelligence..

there is a lot of "talk" that we wear our reps for "ourselves" meaning for our own enjoyment and not anyone's idealistic reasoning for materialistic thought's. If that is the case then leave your rep in the car..

If and when I enter an AD,.. weather it be to view a genuine for comparison (how many times do 'we' do this), or if I am really interested in shopping for a gen. ... then I will wear a genuine... or before I had brand name genuines I would not wear anything.

And on the topic of sales people.... they are "working" and trying to make a living just like you and I ... some have families that depend on their "working" .. and retail being what it is today.. what makes us think that these people don't depend on "keeping" their jobs and they may have arseholes as bosses.. who are very aware of the rep biz... AD's here don't give out brochures anymore .. and will tell you point blank.. 'because of counterfeiters'..

I spend my money where it is appreciated.. I stay away from the stores where the "attitude" supersedes the service... because most of the high end buyer's are form overseas here.. I feel more comfortable when the sales people are "local" and treat me like they would anyone else.

My point is, don't go looking for a fight when one can be avoided.. common sense should be the standard and not the exception !!

AC

Lani

Very well said Lani!

This is why people carry concealed weapons. Most of the time you won't even have to use it, but you may have to show them that you mean business.

This is called "Brandishing a weapon." You will go to jail for this.

Grey Market Huh? What kind of grey market and.. where? (Hopefully not Chinatown)

Read here about what the Grey Market it.

Grey Market

I PM'd you some dealers.

Ahhhh, I see how this is playing out... Gee Bike Mike, such a shame you didn't win this auction, eh?!

Show us the goods when you get back!

Not all Nanug. Doxa piece are not at all to my liking. I like the orange dial, but the rest of watch does not do it for me. That is why I offered up to ship the watch to any member here if they won it, becuase there would be no chance I would take off with it!

If I heard a store in the Mall took someone's property, I would not only never shop there, but I'd make sure anyone I spoke to about shopping or the Mall knew about the occurrence. LOL.....

You think that is going to hurt their business? Not in the least bit. I am not talking about they typical “mall store” where the highest end pieces they carry is Tag or Movado, where the sales people know little to nothing. Go to a Govberg or such where they deal with piece in excess of $150K and see if they worry about someone bad mouthing their store. I was at the Tourneaus in Vegas where staff treated me like gold letting me try on $90K AP’s, when I walked in wearing a Gen. They treated my best friend like sh!t who was wearing his G-Shock. 10 minutes later a well know professional basketball player walked in a set down a 2-inch thick stake of C-notes on the counter and walked out with the most diamond encrusted piece I have ever seen. Now you think that Tourneaus sales staff or manager cares about my or my buddies opinion of their store? Actually this particular store is know to have this issue amongst people on other forums. This is the World of luxury items, they do not need to cater to the masses if they do not want to.

I am not arguing that what you say is not valid, I am just stating what I have seen.. Like Logan said as well, there are parts of the World that do not deal with Counterfeit goods in the least bit. Right or wrong, this is the World we live in. This does in fact happen and will continue to do so. You think some one sporting a rep. into AD that gets it confiscated is going to put down thousands of dollars for a lawyer to fight getting a $300 rep back? When this happens let me know, I will fly to where ever you are buy you a beer, so you can tell me to my face “I told you so.”

You can get brand new Gens in that price range on the Grey market. A few Breitling and Omega models are attainable. I know a Breitling SOSF on rubber strap goes for about $2000 new on the grey market. The only thing is with grey market, you do not get any kid of warranty and in some case the serial numbers are removed. The pieces are still Gen. though.

Not sure what country you are in Mike but i would not like to be the ADs lawyer, just taking peoples watches

I live in the States. It is not illegal to own Reps, just illegal to sell them as it is copyright infringement, whether as a dealer or individual. A good friend of mine is partners in a firm, that among other things, represents a few local jewelry stores. When I got into this hobby I asked him, “What could happen if walked into a Breitling AD with a fake Breitling on?” He put it simply as, any attempt to knowingly sell counterfeit merchandise is an attempt to defraud. If a individual tried fighting to get his watch back it will just be his word against theirs and in the eyes of most courts, they are going to take the side who does not own counterfeit items. All the AD has to say is "They tried selling me their fake watch". Also, the manufactures can get involved as well to aid in both legal and financial support to their dealers. Fighting the big AD's like Tourneaus, Govberg, Finks and such, you will not win. Especially places like Tourneaus where they have certified techs on hand that can verify the authenticity of a piece on the spot.

I would imagine most places would not do much of anything, but I have seen in happen on more then one occasion. To be honest, I have never been to AD where the sales people do not know EVERYTHING about what they sell and would be very hard pressed to get a Rep past them.

Guess I am just going up there for Vodka!

My AD would have picked it up and tossed it into their box with the rest of the reps and walk the guy out the store. About every 3rd time I am there, someone has the balls to walk in (usually with their GF) in tow. As soon as the rep hits the counter they take it. The funny thing is, they will take a rep, but they did nothing (due to corporate policy) as a potential customer turned thief bolted out the door with a $28K piece on their wrist.

Thanks Bike Mike! That's what makes this place great.

Seriously, someone here needs to win this.

Not a problem. I am going to visit the Grand Traverse Distillery, which make some phenomenal Vodka! So if someone here wins the watch and is a vodka lover, I can send a bottle along if you want to pay for shipping.

http://www.grandtraversedistillery.com/

My $0.02. I don

Why?

Crystals are press fit into place. This requires exacting tolerance. Tolerances I am sure are not exacting to the Gens.

If a member here wins this and needs it picked up and shipped I will be in Grand Rapids, MI this weekend. I would be more then happy to ship it.

Mike, HERE you have the link for the review I wrote some time ago about my Colt.

Morlock, excellent review and excellent choice for your wrist size. As I mentioned before, those colt does look very balanced on your wrist. It looks big, without being big. I agree with you that the SOSF would be pushing it. To answer your question about the 10-20-30....100 on the dial. This is used to measure a minute in 1/100th of a unit. Useful for conversions.

Lani's answered it all...

ETA prices are going up...so an ETA movement at $400+, and the movement swap at another $100 adds to $500 compared to $200 for a full service.

Along with prices going up are ETA movements going to even be available since they are are only going to be selling fully built movements to established firms? This is of course was to help stop the rep. industry from using their movements.

Same wrist size, 6.75, and the Colt just fits perfect.

BINGO! That is what I am getting it! That watch looks great and your size wrist and much bigger then the 41mm it is.

Lani is right, this is the nature of this hobby. QC is not existent. Movements are assembled and installed in much less then a clean environment. Any lubrication on the piece is more then likely left over from manufacturing. The manufactures do not clean their components and assemble them with proper lubrication. Any piece I have bought, I tear the movement apart, clean it and properly lubricate it. I had yet, not serviced a rep there were when I was done I had a pea size piece of Rodico that was not full of metal shavings, and who only knows what else. The best you can do is get a rep. with a ETA movement. These movements are properly lubricated but still, this does not help when metal shavings are still present form the machining of the case.

I've been considering a gen Bell & Ross Phantom for a while. Cheap reps are avaliable but none with lume, which kinda defeats the point of this design.

There is a fantasy rep with grey (not black) details and lume though, I've just ordered one from King as a test run before I think seriously about the gen.

I had a Gen LE Carbon BR01-94, bought it unseen as my AD had 10 guys in line behind me ready to buy it and I was kind of disappointed when I got it. The hands and numbers were more of a satin glossy finish and not so much like the flat seen in pictures. The watch was also very hard to read at time. I keep it for about 2 months before trading it in for the new BR01 Pro-Titanium.