fahfahfooey

@ fah fah fooey......after all you've been thru'....I'm gonna send the dial off to The Zigmeister....have him bring the hobnails up to 8 per sq mm.....and then send it to you free of charge....i will of course ensure that all duty is paid on it.....you have a 1 year warranty...and 18 month replacement plan...free of course....and into the bargain...I'm gonna send you the best Sub...but don't tell anyone about that...it'll spoil it for the newbies...thay won't bable to ask anymore....!

That's the good news....the bad news is that is indeed NOT a 7750....but a standard Asian21j.....still beautiful tho'....but the girl has to lower her skirt a little....$189.00 FREE SHIPPING....!

Well, first off, thanks Neil. I really appreciate the spirit of your flawed offer. I know you were only trying to help me in the most professional and considerate way you could think of. Here's the problem, though; You never considered the tax implications! I guess you just expect me to pay the gift tax on this windfall, eh? I realize that you were just trying to help, Neil. But the last thing I want is more problems and the IRS on my case. And who's gonna pay me for my time when I have to go to the p.o. to pick up all of these so-called gifts? And have you seen gas prices lately? The p.o. is almost 2 miles away and these watches never seem to arrive when someone is home to receive them, another deficiency of our supposedly cream'o'the-crop dealers. And who will restore the dignity I lost back at the office when I paraded around for days with a glaringly bogus watch on that I claimed was real to anyone who would listen? (I was just starting to re-establish respect after that whole recessed pin incident at the Christmas party when I was sportin' my fiddy like a rooster.)

So, thanks anyway, Neil. But would you mind just sending me a bunch of cash baked into a cake, or perhaps a loaf of bread. I'll leave the amount to your discretion.

p.s. If you don't send me piles of money, I'll know for sure that everyone was right about you all along.

Wow! That movement is nicely finished. Clean as a whistle, too...

Unfortunately, this watch suffers from a glaring flaw that will always keep it from being considered "the most accurate PAM". I know this first hand because I also own this piece. When I first got it I was ecstatic. It looked virtually identical to the gen - except for the crown, of course. I compared it to several pics and it always held up. But that's no proof, and I know better than to merely trust my lieing eyes! (I learned that from reading these boards for over a year.) So what did I do? I sent the piece off to Stanford University in California (yup, home of the famous SLAC facility and its linear accelerator) for thorough analysis. They said it would be costly ($17 to $19!), extremely time-consuming (4 to 7 days), and highly controversial (for obvious reasons). They double-checked to see if I had the resources, as well as the stomache, to go through with it. We proceeded...

Well, the results are in! It took much longer than they estimated, 8 days to be exact, so I stopped funds on the check I paid them with (more on that later...). Anyway; their findings were heartbreaking. It seems that under the electron microscope it was determined that the "Clos du Paris hobnails" were deficient per square millimeter. Outrageous!!! They weren't just a little off, either. They were wayyyyy off. There are supposed to be 8 hobnails per sq mm, as in the gen, but there are only 7.84 hobnails per sq mm in the rep. It's funny, because now that they pointed this out, I can't help but notice this flaw every time I look at the watch. I can't help but wonder how many of the guys at the office noticed this already and have been snickering behind my back (I told them all that it was gen). There's no way I can wear this piece again, to say the least.

I asked the guys at Stanford what they thought I should do to remedy the situation. They said that I should file a dispute with paypal and send the watch back to the dealer. They also recommended naming the dealer if he should put up a fuss. additionally, they referred me to an excellent attorney (Mark Geragos, esq.) should the situation devolve into defamation and/or libel.

I will keep this forum updated as the situation developes...

p.s Neil; would you mind counting the hobnails per square millimeter on the piece you have for sale? Maybe it is a next-generation version with the correct number. Also; could you possibly measure each hobnail and comment on their size/shape consistency relative to each other? If it measures up to snuff, I may be interested in one of yours if you can guarantee delivery, give me a big discount, and gift-wrap the piece in something with either a medieval winter solstice theme, or perhaps a nice retrospective of jazz musicians from the golden era of be-bop. Thanks in advance...

@chrono903

Awesome pics! I forgot just how nice that watch really is. Ahhhh - another one for the list...

Hmmmm, I've always found the combination of cynicism and naivete to be especially irritating. Of course money is a motivator, but I find it impossible to believe that it is the motivator for many of our dealers who themselves happen to be avid hobbyists. There are some here for which this seems to be a primary source of income, but I would not jump to too many conclusions about their number or their margins.

And as for the $25K number? Even if it is realistic, which I am not persuaded that it necessarily is, isn't out of whack for all the work and risk put into producing inventory for our hobby. What a dealer makes is really nobody else's business anyway. There is no "full disclosure" principle at play here, just pretty basic market dynamics. If dealers get screwed repeatedly, everyone pays more. It happens in virtually every business. It's just that we normally don't get a glimpse of the details behind the curtain. Just my .02 ...

@ Alextor

You make some great and valid points.

It's funny because typically a customer/client never wants to be made to feel like his vendor is doing him a favor during the course of a transaction. The deal should be conducted as if it were mtually beneficial with the comensurate respect forthcoming from both parties involved. This is not a typical transaction, though. We are buying contraban in an environment where, as you point out, the predators are many. Also, as TTK put it, the peripheral matters that go into sourcing the pieces we have come to crave are inumerable. So in a way, when I buy replicas from the dealers in this community, I feel as if they actually are doing me a favor.

I love watches, rep and gen, and there is no way I could have safely navigated these waters the way I have without this forum, its members and its dealers.

p.s. I've only dealt with TTK once. The transaction was as smooth as silk. The watch arrived in a reasonable amount of time, packed securely and was exactly as described. It was so nice and clean that it left me with the impression that it was handpicked from the masses of supposedly identical counterparts. I would definately buy from him again. He knows his business.

Great question. $1500 definately doesn't buy what it used to now that the euro is so expensive. A few years ago you could pick up a slightly used Zenith with an EP for that price range. That being said, take a look at Sinn, Tutima and Kobold. I have owned all three and was impressed by the quality/price ratio on all three. If buying second-hand from a reputable source does not bother you, you might find a good deal on timezone (if you can manage to ignore the often-present pretentiousness there). It sounds like you are going to have some fun shopping around. Sometimes the hunt is the best part.

Richie, I think you should have whoever opens your new acquisition take a series of pictures showing how it arrived, how it was protectively insulated and how the watch looked upon opening. Then you should post this with the sellers username. It will provide the forum with insight into the credibility of the seller. If we all did this when we buy things from other members, it would add value to the forum and clue us in on who is trustworthy and who it not. Just a suggeston.

Good suggestion, WW, but I am not sure if it can be done. I have my camera with me and besides, the person who will most likely do me the favor of going to my house to open the pkg has acute techno-phobia. She would sooner touch a spider than touch a digital camera! I am pretty confident that she will have no trouble giving me a description over the phone, though...

Hmmmm, interesting. The Zenith movement is something that would definately get my attention if I were buying a gen PAM, even if they are 40mm. Were they being discounted because of lack of popularity?

It's easy to make this situation much more complicated than it really is. The watch was described as being virtually new (I read the original description myself as I was also very interested in that piece.) Common sense dictates that a certain level of care is taken when shipping something fragile (and expensive) if it is expected to arrive intact. That is the seller's responsibility to his buyer - dealer or not. If this package arrived the way you describe, Admin, it is a case of negligence, in my opinion. I would ask for a refund because now you are in the realm of attempting to restore something delicate that has been damaged, and we all know how daunting that can be. What was his response?

Interestingly; I recently purchased a piece from this member as well. However, I have been out of the country on business for quite awhile and the piece is just sitting at my house in its fedex packaging. I am now quite anxious to see what condition it arrived in. I am going to have someone open it today. I'll let you know.

Lastly, I have purchased over 20 watches from the members and dealers of this forum, as well as many others through the mail from forums like TZ. Sadly, it appears to me that packaging varies more than just about anything else. It's often not treated as seriously as it should. The only thing that really comes close to being as unpredictable, in my opinion, is the condition description (which I am sure we all have many stories about!). Oh well...

Good luck Admin,

Richie

Funny story. Kinda reminds me of the time that Neil Diamond called me out on my PAM 027. I was standing in line at a Wendy's in Pasadena waiting to order a bacon cheeseburger and biggie fries when this old guy with sculpted hair, gaudy sunglasses and a sequined jacket comes up to me from outta nowhere. I have to admit - I thought he looked familiar, but I really couldn't place him. Anyway, he comes right up to me, points to my watch and says, "Nice try, but that cyclops looks phonier than the Cyclops in those old Sinbad movies". Then several of the guys in his entourage just start to laugh and laugh. I was so shocked and embarrassed that I didn't even order my food. I am sort of ashamed to admit it, but my face turned beet-red, I couldn't think of a single response (after all, he had me dead to rights - the magnification is wayyy off), so I just turned around and ran like a scalded cat all the way to my car.

A few days later when I was craving a burger again, I actually mustered the courage to go back. This time I used the drive-thru window to order, though, just in case. Nevertheless, the assistant manager somehow recognized me through that little window where you pick up the food. He says, "Hey!, aren't you the dude that got dissed the other night by Neil Diamond and his crew?" I was already shocked that this guy recognized me in the first place, but my jaw dropped when I learned that the old guy that humiliated me was Neil Diamond himself! Wow!!! What a world...

Anyway, the assistant manager then starts to drone on and on about how immoral replica watches are and who was I trying to kid anyway, and that maybe I should buy my bacon-cheeseburgers elsewhere from now on. (I found these statements to be incredibly ironic considering the fact that he was wearing an extremely obvious toupe'!). He said that he runs a reputable business and that Neil is a cherished regular who I managed to upset very much. He said he did not want to run the risk of that happening again in the event that Neil and I happened to run into each other again. I just rolled my eyes, paid for my food and drove off.

There's no way they can stop me from going back. In fact, I hope I do run into Neil the next time I stop by because by then I will be sporting a fully modded MBW Comex! I'll just wave it in his botoxed face and say "Sweeeeet Car-oh-liiine, good times never seemed soooo good!!!" That'll show him...

This thread is such a great example of the value of the RWG community. It is so informative and enjoyable. I really appreciate the participation of so many knowledgeable members. There has been a broad spectrum of discussion regarding MBW's and WM pieces over time, but this discussion crystallizes much of it into one concise thread. Kudos!

p.s. I recently purchased the MBW red sub and sd and have not had time to begin mods yet. I now have a much better idea of which ones I will do.

Great story. Wear it well...

mmmmmmmmmmmm... burgers.

For some reason it just occurred to me what I will be having for dinner tonight.

Unbelieveable customer service!

sometimes redundancy is appropriate...

Wow... Incredible service, Joshua. You are truly a class act!

Well done!