_brian_

This is ridiculous, you obviously aren't very knowledgable concerning watch movements ("we are talking gen Tag here, not Valjoux 7750") yet call out "franken" movements based on screw colour and decoration which does look perfectly normal.

Please show me a picture of a genuine Tag Heuer with a Calibre 16 movement, where the finish matches to the movement a received. It might be an eta movement, but not one, which is used by Tag Heuer as Calibre 16. I also contacted gen owners about this in order to make sure and even visited gen forums. Asking TH "experts", I had conversations like this:

"As I mentioned the movement was sold to me as "genuine TAG HEUER Calibre 16" - however it was clearly not a Tag Heuer!

"Yes, i understand and that is a very good point, in that case it was not a calibre 16, because they do not use the COSC movement for that model."

BTW I can provide anyone the nick of the forum member I'm referring too.

if you got paranoid and then made him undo the work...

I did not get paranoid, but the item I received was different from that how it was described and sold to me.

ETA and TAG heuer's movement is virtually the same and that should include the same size screws too. Right now, the parts are so identically machined and polished for ETA movements that the only difference is how each watchmaking house decorate the movement. As far as I'm concerned, there is no difference between someone trained to decorate the movement the same way and some bozo working in TAG Heuer.

The only problem with it is the blue screws. The right thing to do is to send the buyer a pair of greyed screws.

for 300 euros, can't complain about it much even if it is a swiss 7750 finished to look like a caliber 16 by some watchmaker because that's what I figure what it would cost anyways. so chill the [censored] out dude

Ok, maybe I'm just missing a point here. If it's all right to sell any franken watches or movements as "genuine", it will make some transactions easier in the future. If someone receives a franken, which was described and sold as genuine, the case can be closed by saying: "Maybe I'll send you some parts, but they look very similar anyway."

Describe in clear terms why it is not a genuine TAG caliber 16 movement.

Lets not beat around the bush any more, what is the proof to your accusation?

Ken

Gen Tag Calibre 16 movements do not have any blue screws and different geneve stripes finishing as I described already. Just look at the fotos, the differences are obvious.

No brian i took it back because you were not happy and in my oppinion that counts, not because it was not gen! and i asked you for proof it was not gen but all you could provide were the photos you posted at the start of this thread, and that is the same you provided to the moderator you asked to mediate but nothing new.

I pointed out five details, which cannot be found on genuine Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movements. At the beginning you even described that caliber as a movement with only silver polished screws. I asked you to confirm that we are talking about the same thing: A gen TH movement. After I received a movement with blue screws - which you admit to have seen before -, of course I was not happy and still cannot see why in this case I should pay for service. Why did not you mention the blue screw? If you deliver as you promised, a gen TH cal 16 movement, we would not have this thread here.

Brian why do you keep ignoring the very good responses/questions the members are giving and you keep claiming the movement is rep with no more proof than a couple of blue screws.

You realise your creditability is taking a pounding here?

Ken

I think you misunderstand me. Where did I say that the movement is rep?

I'm only saying that it is not a genuine Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement - although it was sold to me like that.

Even if it is a sort of franken ETA with Tag Heuer rotor - it is not what I have paid for and it is not how it was described to me.

Brian are you now saying that i sent you a rep movement

with a gen hand set fitted??

Well, I'm only saying that I bought those gen hands because you sold me a genuine Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement - which turned out to be not a gen Tag Heuer movement. This is why you took it back and this is why I have no use for the hands neither.

Yes we are, they are the same thing. Scroll up to the GEN Cal 16 posted. See the 7750 and ETA logo stamped on the Gen Cal 16. Given the price paid, you got a deal either way.

Are you saying that any ETA 7750 with stamp + Calibre 16 rotor is a genuine TH movement? Well, it's obviously not the case...

Dont forget brian that while i was ignoring your PMs i was sailing in the baltic sea and i had that written in my sigature

Well, you read my pms for bank details and ignored it regarding the hands and service costs on the same day.

The ETA/Valjoux 7750 is like an Aircooled Volkswagen engine. Tons of variations over the years. The criteria the OP used to discount the movement and discredit Andy simply does not hold water.

This whole thing seems silly. If the I received a GEN 7750 with proper Rotor for the price paid, and if it keeps good time, I would be thrilled.

I think I need to side with Andy on this one.

If you pay for a genuine Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement with perforated rotor and you receive a movement, where only the rotor is genuine, it's hard to see why someone should be thrilled.

We do not talk about any ETA 7750 movement here, but a gen TH Calibre 16 with perforated rotor. That's what was sold to me, but I received something else. Obviously I was not thrilled.

You are correct Sr. apparently they are different variations

http://www.bing.com/...ure&FORM=IDFRIR

http://www.replicarolexeta.com/watchpicture/replicaTagHeuerwatch057007.jpg

I am not really a Tag Expert so I can not comment on this

The second picture is a rep movement - blue screws everywhere. Here is the gen TH Calibre 16 with perforated rotor we are talking about - it does not have any blue screws:

"i removed the movement and refunded him the money that he paid for it and send it back to him.

a few days later brian then said that he wanted the money back for the work which included removing and fitting crystals for AR and the run about trying to get a set of gen hands which is not the easyest of things to do as i am sure you all know."

Let's get the facts right:

On the 9th of June I gave Andy my bank details and sent the following pm after Andy refused to take back the hands:

"Ok, I understand that you do not want to have the hands back. I cannot use them without a gen movement neither. The 60 € for labor is also compeletely useless for me as the watch is not completed in any way.

I cannot see why I should pay for both of these. Let's settle the case and refund the movement+labor costs, which are together 360 €. On the other side I will keep the hands and you can have what I paid for it, even if the hands are no use for me."

This message was ignored by Andy. The following day Andy sent me the watch parts back and after five days the 300 Euro refund arrived.

I had the following pm on the 14th of June:

"The 300 € for the movement arrived, but you forgat to refund the labor costs, which are 60 €. I do not want to make your nick with this transaction public or leave negative feedback, even if I still feel [censored] off. When the labor costs refund arrives, this case is settled for me."

This message was also ignored by Andy.

BTW this is how the movement was described to me on the 4th of May: "€300 for the movement and it has silver polished screws just like you want,, not cheep but dont forget this is a Genuine TAG new Calibre 16 chronometre movement and you pay over 400 for a standard new non decorated 7750 that is a good price"

After I received the watch and made my complaints about the movement Andy wrote to me: "Yes it does have one blued screw, i admit, and that is the way i got it."

It's strange that both of the blue screws are under other movement parts so they cannot be seen or changed easily.

One more thing: Anyone, who is interested in the whole conversation with Andy, please let me know, I will send it to you.

Did you contact Admin of this board about this yet?

Yes, of course I contacted moderators here and on other rep forums too. As I mentioned I tried everything I could in order to avoid to make this public.

I have more pictures of the movement, which is 100% not a gen TH Calibre 16. On the following picture there is the blue screw on the upper side (Nr. 2 on the first pic):

Here is a better picture of the geneve stripes:

Here is one more foto of the gen movement:

The Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement did not and does not have any blue screws. All the other details are wrong, except the rotor. It seems like a sort of franken movement with gen rotor, but it is not a gen Calibre 16 movement - otherwise Andy would not have taken it back.

The only issue here is the question regarding the service costs.

Long story short: Well known watchmaker FxrAndy, who is even a moderator here, told me he can source a movement which he described as "this is a Genuine TAG new Calibre 16 chronometre movement" for 300 Euros. As FxrAndy made the movement swap in my TH Carrera too and also sourced new Tag Heuer hands, I paid to him 469,50 Euros (movement 300,- Euros, new Tag Heuer Carrera hands 49,50 Euros, AR 60,- Euros and service costs 60,- Euros). After I received some fotos of the completed watch work I even asked FxrAndy: "can you please confirm that the rep movement was swapped with a gen TH new calibre 16 movement?" The answer was:"yes brian i can confirm that i have swapped the movememnts".

This is the movement I received in the watch:

And this how a genuine Tag Heuer Carrera movement called Calibre 16 looks like:

As you can see, there are two blue screws in the movement I received (Nr. 1 - under the plate, small part of the screw head can be seen - and 2), so this obviously NOT a gen Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement. The color of the part under Nr. 3 is also wrong. The geneve stripes are completely different from gen (Nr. 4) and the screw heads look the wrong size (Nr. 5), whereas there are also some small scratch marks on the heads. I contacted a well known TH "expert" on rwi and he also told me that it's not a genuine Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement.

After complaining about the movement FxrAndy took it back and sent me all the watch parts back without assembly (as I asked) and 300,- Euro. As I cannot use the hands without the movement neither and I have doubts that they are gen hands, I asked FxrAndy about taking them back too, but he refused to do so. In the end I suggested to FxrAndy to make a compromise by refunding at least also the service costs but he refused this too.

I do not like to write all this and make a rep forum members nick public. However I beleive it's not the right way of doing watch service and I also did everything I could in order to avoid to make this public. I contacted FxrAndy several times and also moderators on different forums, but I'm still waiting for getting back at least the service costs. For me it looks like that someone tried to scam a fellow forum member and even wants to get paid for it. In private pms I was assured that it's not fair to keep the service costs but if someone has a different view or I miss something, please let me know about it. I think it's also a good story for noobs, as I really did not expect from an established member with over 10.000 posts that he would sell a movement as gen - which was obviously not.

Can you make me one with everything?

That's a nice pamily foto! I wish you a good time with your pamily members!

+1 for Chrome. Simple, quick and doesn't seem to get confused like Firefox.

Well, if it does not bother you, that chrome sends all kind of information to google, it´s surely a good choice. Otherwise go for Iron.

Cartier, no question. There are some really good Chanel reps too.

There are always trends, just like it was in the 70's, 80's with those ugly, tasteless, colorful timepieces - some had even the "darth vader" or "bullhead" design - or quartz watches. Now the 44mm, 47mm etc. watches seem to be a trend too. However it seems that it does not always mean that these watches are more popular: Like the 42mm IWC Aquatimer Slevin or the newer 44mm Aquatimer like the Galapagos - the older 42mm design is still preferred by the majority.

Panerai had a hit with those 44mm watches, they have their own style and a classic, unique look. I think the trend with watches over 44mm will go away, so for the next decade most watches will be between 40 and 44mm. I do not think it will go back under 40mm.

Let's hope it's not EHEC.

41mm Tag Heuer Carrera on rubber strap - old rep but great.

Well, that´s not a watch, more like a monster...

Well, yes. However the gen 318 has a lowbeat movement. The gen 005 is highbeat. In this respect the rep 318 is more gen like.

Most beautiful watch ever made?

The white dial Homer Tourbillon.