fotoman

Well, i think it should be more white i don't care how accurate they are

This is where your 100% wrong - lets analyze the "reason to do so" Definition of compassion 1. a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering. its a FEELING - you can have feelings with or without god if your talking about kindness and doing right by your fellow man and being a "good Person?" (a good person as opposed to committing good acts) your theory is that an athiest can commit good acts but can not be a good person. because it has the "moral weight of a bowl of oats" Under your analysis the only way that someone can be a good person is if a set of rules are established and the fear of punishment will occur if not followed. That would give it moral value HOwever, is that a good person at all? - no it is not. I would argue that a good person is one who does good acts wihtout expectation of reward or under threat of punishment. Is a MORAL person someone who does things because he is told to, or because he believes it is the right thing to do independant of punishment or reward in fact - you have it backwards - a "religious" person can not be a "good person" under most popular religions, as they do so in order to be obediant/ curry favor/ or avoid punishment. however, the athiest who commits good acts is truly a good/ moral person because he can do so and not be doing so out of any selfish benefit.

you just required me to read the longest post i've read in days

I just looked, 0--- its different by country re: fees here is the grid http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=fees

looks great - can't wait to get it back

i believe ultimate is a modifyer of the asthetics not the build. or it could modify the price

We must not forget that the ease of access to product is wholly on the dealer's shoulders. We can not control it. They have a business model that they want to follow. They take the risk of exposing themselves only to the point that they feel they can make the $$ they want. It is definatly true that the casual poster in the "old days" had a very tuff time sorting through all the noise to find a place to buy. Communicating was done on a 1 to 1 basis and the "big walmart size" website was not 100% reliable. If the dealers want to take things underground, it would be very easy for the forum to adapt to whatever format they like. if we made a new site and used all kinds of code words - Perfect Clones would still be easy to find

i used guerilla glue. The bezel insert that came with the watch nicely fit tight into place. I replaced a bezel on another one that didn't fit exactly. I used a series of rubber bands to keep it down in place. Guerilla glue takes forever to cure. Someone said that crazy glue has a gas that can harm the watch

I don't know yet, i think there is a 1.5% charge for credit cards? I think its free if you do it via bank wire - but you have to wire it from your bank so that is usually a 10 dollar or so charge. f-in paypal this is obviously the way for most of the dealers - i have used joshs' new cc payment processing and that was smooth as silk.

You mean TRC?

F-in western union - 32 bucks fee at the WU place to send 350 My MB acct will be up and running for my next purchase

i haven't gotten pm notices and archived emails in days i thought my spam server was getting picky

this is one of the most outstanding important questions on the forum these days. Could you say from which dealer this came. I assume there are many movements calling themselves 2824 copy

this is exactly what i did except i was more reckless with the pliars also - what kind of chicks are you hangin out with that ask about that thingy on your watch? myexperience is if they are scoping out your watch they are trying to figure out if you can afford them

casting doubt is the hobgoblin of the curious mind. remember satan is the provider of curiosity and critical thought (see the apple of knowledge) god has punished all of us for asking questons and being curious bykicking us out of paradise does it really make sense that a creator would create the human brain hard wired with a sense of curiosity and a "need to know" for the purpose of living in complete ignorance? the church would have you believe so. also for a similiar retort see the wizard if oz "pay no attention to that man behind th curtain" pug if there is one thing i can get right in this f-ed up world its arguing the rest i just fake good enough to get by

i disagree there is no such thing as a perfect circle. Maybe there isn't one naturally composed and maybe you can't draw one, but you definatly can make one. check out nanotubes I haven't confused anything, but in many instances i have lumped religion, god, and spirituatlity together because in many instances they are the same. As i said before, i wasn't sure from which viewpoint you were approaching this, i should havebeen more specific as a defender of religion, or god or spirituality. We can take a look at your questions- However, there is only 1 important one to examine as it is the basis for the discussion - who created the first whatever. The question of whether we exist is irrellivent because if we don't exist, then any answer we would have given to the question would also equally not exist. the question is - who created the universe. THe reason for teh question is, our brains as humans are small and were not built to comprehend the concept of infinity. everything we know and can observe has a finite begining and finite ending. The question is one that can no be answered, but- can be reasoned to have 1 answer more likley than not. The problem of the chicken and egg is exactly that. If you state that there is a god because who created all of this. I would retort with, well, then who created god. And if it is possible that god was always there, then why isn't it equally possible that the matter in the universe was always there. just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Now - why would i say there is a higher probability tword god NOT existing at least one of conciousness as described in the bible, or as generally understood as some sort of concious creator - there is no evidence of such that is observable. however, we can observe the impact and reality of the laws of physics and matter. Although more convienent and conforms the laws of the universe in a model that our small brains can understand, the concept of a conscious creator is not supported by observation or logic. However, physics is. So i say that it is therefore more liklye that the universe was "just always there" as opposed to some other supernatural being who was always there and "created" the universe.

a person of science and math would ABSOLUTLY say that if there is no evidence of a perfect circle one doesn't exist. Not only is there no evidence of a higher being, but - the evidence that does exist would point against any intelligence designing the world. Humans for instance are not ment to stand upright - there is too much stress placed on our lower backs because we - well, the old we- the primates walked on all 4s thats why so many of us have bad backs. there is plenty of "stupid or useless" things in nature - most likley the result of a trait that is left over and was once darwinianly important. - i haven't read through the thread specifically to see from which angle you are approaching the issue - but, i could point you tword some very convincing books laying out evidence that of the examples that exist in the world/ universe they point to there NOT being a single consciousness or almighty. and - lets say thee is a god and he or she is responcible for writing the bible. Do you really want to take your cues from someone who believs that one of the best that man kind can offer - lot, who god saw fit to send 2 angles to save before destroying his city. His daughters sometime after leaving decided to get him drunk and have sex with him in order to impregnat them. 1 on one night and the other the following night. is this the family that god sees fit to save from destruction ? fact is, the world is an amazing and wonderous place - science is amazing, people are amazing, flowers are amazing - and i don't need them to have been Divinely created in order that i can appreciate them. And i also don't need to be threatend with eternal suffering just to keep from shooting everyone on my block.

James cameron doesn't "need the money" he is going to make if anything on this documentry the religous folks that have the potential to lose their industry is a whole other subject. DId you know that Jerry Falwell told his followers that the Lord WANTS him to have a private jet, so he can do all the good works fo the lord. If you want to talk about putting on a show check out who hired the best ancient inventors to create "miracles" in order to woo followers http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=det...pisodeId=211049 "Gods and religion played an extremely important role in antiquity. The problem with so many religions being worshipped by the Greeks and Romans was how would the priests of these temples pay for their upkeep? Great scholars such as Philon, Ctesibius and Heron were patronized by the temples to create "magic". In return, they created intriguing and mind blowing objects. It was a heavy mix of religion and science. One of the most famous illusions was found in Alexandria at the temple of Serapis, where an iron chariot was suspended in mid air. It appeared to be the work of the gods." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctesibius http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/HeronAlexandria2.htm with these magic tricks like turning Water into Wine (you may have heard of that one) and creating artificial thunder noises in the church on cue ancient religous leaders duped followers into believing that they had supernatural connections and powers. The sad part is with all the resources money food people that were put into ancient mysticism - sacrafices edifices ect ect and with all of the modern money that goes into praising the almighty you could stop using societies resources tword that and do some really great things. again, i don't really want to upset anyone on the board, i usually resist from making these sorts of points cause generally i just upset people and they don't change thier opinions. - but, i figure, if you have been following th thread this long your coming here knowing what concepts will be challenged and should be able to deal with it not being personal.

I have never had one DOA but, i have had 2 that crapped out within a few days and were sent back - I also beleive that both of those were due to the user not following directions for use

ok - i'm going to step in - unfortunatly some of these issues were already covered in my post that never showed up. To all the religious folks arguing logic - Go read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins - he carefully does away with any logical argument for religion or god. Pointing out that religion holds an absurd presumption in our society being the only subject to which the ones with no evidence of existance force everyone else to Prove a negative. For instance. if i chose to "believe" that little purple men live on the planet mercury - I don't force the religous to prove they DON"T exist. 2nd - relating to the argument about If there were a god he wouldn't require belief in only 1 system. Ok - if were going to take the construct of a god that is "perfect" or "all knowing" you would have to assume that a perfect or higher being wouldn't be subject to some of Man's most common frailties - and ones that ancient books would seem to outlaw - like, Ego. So, in fact if there were a perfect being, it would be highly UNLIKELY that we would need to worship him or her. ALso - have you noticed how Jelous and small the god of the bible is? - What is the #1 rule of #1 rules? THat there is 1 god and you shall not worship any others (the ten commandments) and if that wasn't enough a 2nd of the 10 most imporant rules of all time says you shall not take the name of the lord in vein. HOw much of an ego maniac do you have to be to forbid people speaking of you unless it is in a formal context by the way does anyone here believe that the appropriate compass for moral value comes from the bible? either old or new testiment?- cause if my children followed the example shown in the bible - First there is no doubt that children and family services (i.e. the state) would come take them away - and i know they would be severly punished by me. The bible (especially the old testiment) is a horrible book with example after example of the worst way to run a life. those who base their beliefs on ancient books can't with any intellectual honesty explain why certain parts of the book are sacrosanct - divine and must be followed and some is - just not that relevent. - THe moral values of society have evolved and "the good book"has be reinterprited to fit the current moral zeitgeist. When i was young i was amazed that words written 2000 or 5000 were still relevent today. - Well, there are some wonderful books out there that pin the basics of our "moral values" / the universal nature of our accepted societial rules can be explained with darwinian cause/ and effect. FINALLY, - if you still don't think that "organized religions" were not just a local scam ran by the power elite in their towns/ societies - check out the subject of Cargo Cults.- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cults There is no clearer example of what our ancient ancestors went through - and our ability to have observed it with our modern understandings. especially check out the cult of John Frum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum - if your interested at all in religion you must understand this subject. this book which has a part to play in the upcoming documentry by james cameron - the jesus tomb - has gotten some good reviews and the author has a part in the whole deal. its called the Jesus Dynasty and it is a look at the historical jesus http://www.jesusdynasty.com/ The best example i give to people is - even under the current church understanding of when the new testiment was written it was 50 years after jesus death. - That is the equivilent of writing a history of world war II - Today - and with no media to record the occurences -- i don't know about you, but my wife and mother can't keep a story straight from the middle of the day to that evening. - 50 years? ok - again - if your a believer and are offended by what i'm writing - then you should be able to take comfort in the fact that i will burn i recomend everyone to look for themselves at the information that is out there, at historical understandings of ancient civilizations and a clear picture of what we were and who we were is pretty transparent. besides if there was a god wouldn't he/she have given me the ability to spell?

I am looking at the moneygram site, it seems to be a little better, but i was waiting for instruction by NEil before just putting it through. The other thing i was looking at was a check or MO sent via US Priority Mail would take like a week to get there, but its WAY cheaper - only like 10 bucks to send priority and if you get a MO its like 5 bucks. F-in paypal WU told me, that the US is putting pressure on all of the over the internet payment systems to not allow people to send money out of thecountry.

i was able to get the pins out, with a little careful hammering. This was however a calkwalk, IMHO compared to the J12 - OMG - that was a scary one and as i have stated before, it broke 2 of my pin tools

what a pain in the ass WU is. First it wanted 42 bucks as a transaction fee. Then it said i couldn't do it on the web and had to go in in person ;( Moneybookers wasn't much better Guess i'll go to a WU location

I think that is where we are far off - i'm speaking of US business.