kanerich

Saying that the band on a genuine Rolex is as cheap and flimsy as a rep is total [censored]. The feel is completey different from the rep and does not jangle like the reps do. I wear a gen SD everyday and the wear and tear it take has no effect on the surface or build quality. Omega straps mark very easliy as the steel grade is nowhere near the quality of a Rolex band and Rolex reps don't last two minutes before stretching and scratching up.

I agree they do not feel heavy and solid like an Omega band for instance but this does not make them flimsy! What it does do however is make them lighter and much more comfortable to wear day in, day out and that's all I have to add to this overview of a band.

As a gen and rep Rolex owner I have to agree . . . while a gen oyster bracelet is not particularly heavy, it is substantially better made and has a much better tactile quality than rep bracelets. I'm not going to get into the debate over whether the oyster band is worthy of a $4,000 watch or not . . . this has been brought up 100,000 times and doesn't get any more interesting the 100,001th time. Nor does it seem to affect Rolex sales. All I will say is that people who claim that rep bracelets accurately replicate the feel and quality of a gen either have lost all feeling in their limbs, or else don't know what they're talking about.

The one problem with your situation is that we're talking about the notorious modded Asian 7750 movement Daytona. If it was some other watch I would be more sympathetic (I still think a swap or some kind of partial refund is appropriate) . . . but this particular watch is basically designed to fail, which has to be some part of the consideration. I certainly am not saying you don't deserve a better resolution, but . . . with this particular watch 1) I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to buy one; and 2) especially used.

I don't agree that everything is the buyer's responsibility . . . and I cannot see how insisting both sellers and buyers be honest "deteriorates" the community. But with this particular watch . . . it was kind of risky to buy from the start. I think it is fair to keep that in mind and therefore be PATIENT in working out an equitable resolution.

I have several Asian 7750 reps -- Pam 212, 196, and 187, and the Navitimer Fighters. The oldest are about a year and a half old, and I haven't any problems with them, although the chrono seconds dial on the Navi creeps a bit over time. Still, I agree with people that these are not the reps to get if you're looking for the movement least likely to be problematic.

Still, if a rep fails after a little while, it happens. I never understand why people buy things like PSP's and iPods full knowing they'll be worthless junk in couple of years, but feel like reps have to be priceless family heirlooms. A fake Rolex is a shiny $200 toy. It is in no way a Rolex, as to both its attendant pros and cons. Compare apples with apples and you'll enjoy the hobby more.

They've got good stuff . . . I bought a carbon-look strap for my 212 rep that's excellent quality for the price.

If you're not married, it's not a big deal, you can spend your money however you want.

Once you are married, however . . . it's not as simple (in my case) as saying "hey [censored] it's my money, you sit in the corner and shut your yap" or whatever some people suggest. After all, a healthy marriage doesn't work like that unless you live in Somalia or something.

Basically, the best thing is simply if she has hobbies or expenses that cost a similar amount of money to balance things out. For example, my wife spends several thousand a year on clothing and shoes, which I don't. She spends a couple hundred a month on hair, nails and whatever else it is women do, which I don't. We tend to splurge on restaurants and trips she wants. Also, I buy her much better gifts than she does for birthday, Xmas, anniversary, etc. and I pay all the bills, so . . .

Wait a second, this is a terrible deal for me! No wonder she's so "understanding!"

But if it only had decent feel I wouldn't mind wearing it. Unlike many others here I don't always mind wearing "inaccurate" reps if they feel nice and possess quality feel. I have a fixation with this particular model, dunno why, it doesn't always "make sense"... and I've been considering the genuine for ages.

No, I agree . . . I like my moonwatch rep and my 212 and wear them all the time, even though I know they're not the most cosmetically accurate watches in my collection. But those watches are really nicely made. My point as originally stated is that I don't see the point of "not that nicely made AND not that accurate" reps, like this one.

Women actually understand the concept of fakes a lot better than men, having grown up with fake jewelry, handbags etc. all their lives. Believe me, most women don't have a problem with owning counterfeit stuff. They have a problem with liars.

There are MANY dumbass doctors.

I'm not trying to denigrate any profession, nor am I suggesting that any profession can be expected to have only honest or highly intelligent people in it. I'm saying once a specific person represents himself as smart, educated and ethically trained, he has painted yourself into a corner when it comes to pleading ignorance or stupidity for dishonest, irresponsible or illegal behavior. All you have as a skilled professional is your judgment, sense of responsibility and integrity, so "I'm a flake," or "I can't distinguish between basic concepts of right and wrong" aren't really things you should admit to lightly.

I also think Arthur is an incredibly generous person for accepting the "I've been really busy" explanation. Not too busy to sell two watches and pester Arthur into taking a busted one he didn't really want, but too busy to do the transaction right? Funny how that works. It's been said many times before -- if you aren't too busy to cut a deal but you ARE too busy to do what you promised and do it right, that makes you A BAD PERSON TO DO BUSINESS WITH, and you have to live with it. Forget about the lame excuses after the fact. This isn't just about this person by the way -- it is a pet peeve of mine regarding members on this board and people in life who don't do what they promised, avoid taking responsibility (hiding, not responding to calls and emails) and then eventually show up saying "geez, I was busy, I'm basically a good person. Don't be so mean" while somehow not apologizing or returning the money they took. Even assuming it's true, did I pay you just to be a basically good person? If not, why do you think that is an excuse for not carrying out your end of the deal?

It's interesting that some people are saying "I hope he has a good explanation." Is there really any conceivable explanation that justifies sending someone a damaged and nonworking watch on purpose after representing it as new? This is not like a dealer not doing QC. He knew exactly what he was sending.

I don't think he's a scammer exactly. Sherlock Kanerich deduces that our young friend busted his MBW trying to mod it (he been really into frankenrolexes lately) and coveted another one really badly. But MBW's don't grow on trees so he went back and screwed Arthur out of his, figuring he'd work it out later. I'm not saying it's a flattering explanation, just the most plausible one.

One does have to wonder about this sort of behavior from someone who by his own repeated assertions is intelligent and educated and engaged in learning a medical profession that will compensate him handsomely and require him to act responsibly and ethically regarding each and every one of his patients. The way someone handles the little things tells you a lot about how they handle the big things.

I think he should have answered the questions now

The honpo one is 40.5mm, they even show a calipers shot. So the size problem presumably is not.

The Seatimer does remind me why I can't take Cartier seriously as a horological company as opposed to a fashion house. A specialized diving watch that's 100m waterproof? I realize this thing is not a real tool watch but would it have killed them to build in a little bit of functionality for $4,000? So fey.

I'm glad things apparently will get resolved and good for you to be so diplomatic during the process. Being capable of being shamed into proper behavior is still much, much better than being an outright crook but you shouldn't have to twist someone's arm so hard to make them do the right thing.

I'm sorry to hear you got gypped and I'm also sorry to hear who it was. Occasional drama queen like outbursts aside I was under the impression he was basically a bright, decent kid based on recent feedback and posts. I guess it's just the drama queen like outbursts that's he's about then.

Thats a great looking watch. From a quick comparision with a gen, the most obvious flaw is that the subdials at 12 and 6 seem to be missing a white ring around them. Also the numbers in the subdials at 12 and 9 should be horizontal rather than at an angle matching their position in the subdial. On the gen there also seems to be three dots of lume in the 12:00 subdial at the 2,6,10 markers which are absent in the rep. This is all mostly nitpicking[.]

I don't consider any of this nitpicking. These are simple, cosmetic flaws that can and should be fixed with little difficulty by the maker . . . I think I'll wait for the second generation.

http://shopping.e-conveni.net/item_info.ht..._id=911130&

Honpo's got it, so presumably our dealers will soon also.

Some of the details are a bit rough compared to the gen and the numeric fonts on the dial are inaccurate, but overall not bad at all IMO. Price it around $150 and I can see getting interested. Cartier's aren't really my cup of joe but hey, the collection needs rounding out. You know you're into reps when you think "hmm, don't really want this but it would add diversity to the collection."

My response is whatever sinks your boat...

For me, date alignment problems are a nit pick but we all have our obsessive, laser beam focus flaws that are all we can see when we pick up a replica.

The old George Carlin joke about other drivers . . .

I'm not nit-picking, just not sure. Is this watch supposed to have a date window at 6?

I realize that some functions are complicated. For example, almost nobody knows how to use the circular slide rule on navitimers or really cares, how to use the tachymetre to measure the speed of a moving object (not so tricky but still), etc.

But still . . . I'm firmly not in the "there are no such thing as stupid questions" camp. You used google to find THIS site, why can't you use it to look for other information as well? For god's sake it's faster, more detailed and doesn't make you look like Lord Densely, Master of the Obvious. Age or noobieism has nothing to do with it -- simple common sense at any age above about 10 would suffice to figure out an answer on one's own as to a lot of these questions.

What's next -- "guys I can't get my watch off my wrist! The way I put it on doesn't seem to make it come off! Should I cut off my hand? Will that hurt? Will it grow back? What do I do about the excrement particles around my rectum after I defecate? Is there something you're supposed to do about that?" Where does it all end?

The Asian 212 version has been out for ages. You should have bought V's version second hand as it was already relumed, had a more accurate dial and came on a far superior (US$100) strap.

The difference on this new one and his will be (non-AR?) sapphire crystal and an inaccurately decorated movement.

For those already with a 212, I think finepics is working on getting an AR coated sapphire crystal for this.

I love my 212 rep. For $220 or whatever I paid for it there is not a more beautiful, better made watch, rep or gen, and that is my sincere opinion. AR, incorrect movement engravings, I could care less.

In general I'm pretty picky (I never wear my Navitimer Fighters because the non-beveled date window bugs the crap out of me, and I can't stand my Sub rep because the SEL's just do not have the correct machined look) but my 212 is the one watch where I don't nitpick about accuracy. I don't tell people it's real anyway -- the gen is $10,000, and my personal rule is that I don't fib about the authenticity of any watch that would cost more than gens I personally own. I know it's random, but it works for me.

Kanerich, always meant to ask you, seeing your avatar. Are you a fan of wrestling? I have some old stuff from the 90s when Chris Benoit wrestled Jushin "Thunder" Liger which are pretty good. There were some tournaments around that time that I have of there.

Sorry to go completely off-topic everyone!

Yeah, I was hugely into wrestling during both the 1980's glory years (up to about 1989 when things got stale and silly) and the Monday Night Wars (up to about 2002, after which things got stale and complacent). When I came to Japan for grad school my university actually had a Pro Wrestling club and I joined for a few months for laughs, hence the photo. I'm not a huge guy (5'11, 185) but in Japan people aren't that big so that's good enough for government work, as Good Old JR would say. I quit pretty soon though -- at age 31 I was just too old to be doing the crazy [censored] that 18 and 19-year old Japanese guys do just for laughs, and I had visions of the paper at home with the headline "Local man breaks neck taking brain buster in Japan for no apparent reason: stupidity cited as cause of injury" But still, good times. Japan's a fun place, lack of replica watches notwithstanding (see, I stayed on topic).

It's not particularly accurate, cosmetically or mechanicallly. I respect your judgment of course, but I don't know why you feel this is a must buy in any way. It seems clearly cobbled together to take advantage of the Tag fans created by the vastly superior Link chrono.

I live in Osaka, Japan and they do have a few dodgy reps that sell in Osaka City centre (Umeda and Namba) but they are ll asian and will set you back $200.

I live in Kyoto. Kansai power baby!

As far as reps go, forget it. Japan ain't the wild wild east when it comes to anything like that.

Come on. That stripper really did like me!

I agree with everything you said here, even the paragraph I snipped. Reps provide a lot of pleasure for the money, and with the properly serviced ETA movements, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do so for a long time. And that's more than I can say for a stripper.

I don't mean to knock strippers. Economically they're a better deal than wives or girlfriends and they're a lot better at pole dancing.

I see no reason why a watch equipped with a Swiss ETA, regularly serviced, can't or won't last for many, many years. The Swiss ETA 2671/2824/2836/2846/2892 are all fairly simple time and date... No real complications, and fairly common to see in many of the pricey brands as well.

Ubi, most of my problems have not been movement-related -- it's been the little things, like number markers falling off the dial, crown tube stripping, crystal popping out, dial developing a scratch because of crooked hand installment, paint flaking off the inside bezel. For non-watchsmiths these aren't necessarily simple fixes even though they are very simple problems. I'm talking about very popular watches (Sub, 183, Navitimer, etc.) from our trusted dealers. Many members have had the identical problems so I know these are problems inherent in the design.

Reps seem to be improving all the time, and I love the hobby, so I don't mind the occasional problem watch that needs a trip to Rob. A majority of my reps have been fine. However, at the moment I can't agree that eta movements are the be all end all in terms of reliability and durability for many, many years. Quite probably, but not more than that. Being a rep collector requires more commitment and a willingness to fix problems as they come along, and the ability to eat the very occasional $300 watch due to stupid cosmetic defects. It's not a huge thing, but in my opinion it's definitely a thing.

Probably true, but the anecdotes are still out there. I was talking with a gentleman whose son had the dial pop out of place on his Rolex, and that formed the impression of the marque. I hold Rolex in much higher regard than he does.

We all have stories. I have my dad's datejust from 1971, it still runs like a top. I have an Explorer II that's five years old and will no doubt run another 50. I'm not talking up Rolex, it's a fact that they are tough. Yeah, so somebody's Rolex was a lemon. What company makes perfect products every time? None of them. . . last time I checked God wasn't running any company. But you (I don't mean YOU, I mean people) can't extrapolate that into "some gens break down, some reps break down, therefore reps are just as reliable as gens." That's seriously fallacious thinking, although if it makes people feel better about their reps then I'm not going to convince anyone otherwise.

Reps are great for the price. They provide a lot of pleasure for not so much money. But they're still just reps. Convincing yourself that reps are anywhere near 1:1 equivalents of gens is like convincing yourself that the stripper who's giving a lap dance really likes you. Yeah, you'd like to think that. Yeah, it could be true. But most likely you're just kidding yourself.

I try to match, but those stainless steel shoes are a real [censored] so I'm not a stickler on the rule.

To quote The Zigmeister verbatim:

"all replica’s have quality and problematic parts that rarely show up on genuine watches."

Anecdotes aside (and my personal experience from owning gens and reps is that reps go wrong at a highly disproportionate, albeit still acceptably low, rate), I'd go with Rob's conclusion on this subject.