deltatahoe

wow, thanks for sharing guys -- great idea stephane -- it is a good reminder that life is not all about watches (what a sad life it would be if that were the case). sometimes we get so caught up in this stuff it is necessary to take a minute and remember what really matters. deltatahoe

i'm sporting my navitimer on BOB black calf today (sorry, no wrist shots)....not sure why this watch doesn't get more wrist time -- it's a great combination...

thanks edge. i think we should have more members weighing in on potential solutions to this situation. surely we can collectively come up with a reasonable solution.

i realize we have asked repeatedly that they correct descriptions for the aqua terra and the b&r.....my whole point is this: ask them again, with the understanding that if they do not comply, they will be banned (as i said in my original post).

first off, let me say that i am absolutely for taking whatever actions are necessary to ensure the dealers do not misrepresent their products in the future. however, i think edge's proposed plan could be improved upon. my thoughts are below.... how exactly do you propose that they prove to us that they have mended their ways? i think the best way to go about this is to demand the dealers to change the descriptions and add detailed movement pictures on the omega aqua terra and the 1:1 b&r (and any other blatantly misrepresented watches*) on their websites to make it extremely clear what type of movements we are getting in our watches. the message should be simple: if you want to be a dealer on our forum, you cannot misrepresent your items, whether on your website or on watches your post on this forum. if they will not comply, then they should not be allowed to be a dealer here. *are there any other blatantly misrepresented watches? if so, it would be useful to compile a list of them so we could include all of them in the demand. people have existing relationships with both dealers, and prefer buying from one or another. you are also assuming they make exactly the same amount of money because they have the same watches, website, etc. there is no way this is true. who knows, joshua might do double the sales that andrew does or vice-versa. who are you to tell them they can't run separate businesses / websites? i think you're reaching here... there is no reason each new watch should have to be posted to the forum in addition to the website, assuming the website is accurate and includes all of the relevant information required to make an informed purchase. if you think the dealers will keep the forums more up to date than their sites (which for joshua and andrew are automated with linked credit card processing capabilities), you are kidding yourself. these are just my thoughts. i am for change just like everyone else; i just think there could be a better way of making it happen. deltatahoe

given all the re-hashing of the b&r situation in this thread, i thought i would share what i think the following is a pretty reasonable theory as to what happened with the b&r. if you've had enough with all the discussion of the b&r, feel free to skip my theory and read my other conclusions below, which i feel like are more relevant to the primary discussion at hand. -----------begin conspiracy theory----------- the 1:1 b&r watch was a joint project between andrew and josh. in reading his posts about the way that project ended up going, my guess is that in an effort to make a 1:1 copy of the original, andrew and josh racked up some serious costs, and in order to even have a fighting chance of making a (small) profit on this watch, they had to cut costs where possible (ie. finding what they felt was an acceptable cheap movement to put in the watch). knowing their costs and how many watches they had available, it would have been clear what they would have to charge per watch to recoup their costs. so they set the price of the watch accordingly. up until this point, i believe there is nothing wrong with this story. if a dealer commissions a project (or multiple dealers for that matter), they should be free to charge whatever they want for it. this is not the behavior of a cartel (which i discuss a little more later). however, where (according to my theory) things went wrong is when josh and trusty probably realized that they would have a hard time selling enough of the 1:1 b&r watches at these high prices if people knew it had an inexpensive (cheap?) asian movement inside, so they called it an ETA 2892 instead (cleverly omitting swiss in front of ETA). not surprisingly, they didn't bother taking pictures of the movement. oh, and why not throw superlumed dial in the description -- that should help too -- everyone loves watches with superlume. the rest is history. -----------end conspiracy theory----------- given the huge response to this thread, it is clear that everyone is concerned about this whole situation, with particular concern about dealers knowingly misrepresenting their products to fuel sales of said product. i think this is really at the heart of everyone's concern. the only way i see our concerns being relieved is by the dealers demonstrating better behavior in the future, so personally i don't see how banning them is going help anything. i would like to think that based upon what happened with the 1:1 b&r misrepresentation, no one has purchased this watch since it was exposed. this is the most effective way to effect change in the dealers' behavior -- if you misrepresent items, we simply will not buy them. for this reason, i think crystalcranium's suggestion of the dealer scams suggestion is a good one. this subforum could serve as a place to help the community recognize the misrepresentations as they occur, at which point the best way to ensure they don't happen again would be if no one purchased that particular item. inevitably, some people will ultimately make a judgement that despite the misrepresentations, the watch is still worth the stated price and buy the item (as evidenced by jomama's purchase of the seamaster aqua terra). at least in this case individuals would have full knowledge of what is actually being sold, and RWG will have served its purpose of protecting people from scams. deltatahoe (conspiracy theorist) ps, here are my thoughts re: potential cartel issues (similar underlying theme to my conclusion above): if people truly believe and are concerned that we are dealing with a cartel on certain items (the breitling steelfish superocean being the primary watch in question), and prices on said items are being artificially inflated, then the only way we will see these actions change (ie. stop the price fixing) would be if everyone boycotts the purchase of these items at the artificially inflated prices. such a boycott could be compared to unions and strikes: the union (RWG community) only has power to the extent it is able to speak as one voice, which requires everyone to stick together despite the suffering that might entail. to the extent people are willing to accept the current situation, it only weakens the case for the remainder of the community. pss, in reading the tone of andrew's responses (see his post here), i think andrew really doesn't feel like he is in the wrong with regard to the b&r situation. whether he is right about thinking so is another matter.

basically, there are pins holding the bracelet together that you need to push out to remove links from the bracelet. pushing them out (and of course getting them back in) is the hard part. if you don't have the right tools (ie. a pin pusher made for these purposes), take it to a local watchmaker -- shouldn't cost more than $10-15 (depending on the watchmaker of course). hope this helps.... deltatahoe

ummm....bob were you on that boat???

can't wait V -- thanks for getting these in the mail before your trip! deltatahoe

best of luck to you epoch on your quest to quit chewing tobacco.... so sorry to hear about your inability to wear watches.....that would be really tough.....hang in there. deltatahoe

wow pugwash i think that might be the best wrist-shot comparison i've ever seen. seriously -- very well done. from the looks of your shot, they wear VERY similar in size....

i'd also be all over this one if they did it right....

thanks guys -- i'm really excited about this watch. @nanuq, here is some more eye candy for you. the girls got a little carried away with the attention to detail on our snow-babe (notice the eyelashes)....

i was thinking of using standard pam tubes, just putting the tubes in while inserting the pin (would be a little tricky, but from the sound of it, might be easier than the struggle you described getting it through the rubber), then pulling the tubes out after the pin is in the watch....

so i'm working away this afternoon when my assistant stops by my office with a mysterious package.....i have a pretty good idea what's inside this one (although it's quite a bit bigger than i was expecting), so i decide to wait till i get home to tear it open. after getting through all the packaging (it was well packed), i was a little surprised at what i found: hmm.....two tone didn't make any mention of a rolex box.....this is a really nice touch. let's see what's inside.... wow -- look at the nice wood grain and rolex logo......what, you want to see more??!? what's trying to peak through here? i think i see a chrono subdial..... without further ado, i present to you -- a dw daytona.... oops, wrong picture. maybe nanuq will appreciate it though. ok, no more teasing guys -- here it is: the watch looks just amazing. the contrast of the black and white really make this watch stand out.... here are some quick coffee table pics for pugwash (as you can see, i was running out of light)... many thanks to two tone for the great watch!! i've got a genuine t-21 crystal on the way; after a new crown & tube and a new bracelet & endlinks for this beauty, it will be complete!!! thanks for looking, deltatahoe

ahhh....i kinda forgot the notched effect of the case (the strap goes on either side) -- the pin is going through the watch case where the notch is.... duh!!! i wonder if you could put tubes (found inside pam straps) inside the rubber strap while inserting the pin in order for it to go in smoother (that sounded xxx-rated). what do you think -- would that work/help? deltatahoe

just got a slew of emails from RWG!!! i suspect it's working again...

sorry to hear about your trevails shultzie.....however, that was some great writing. i'm wondering....were you pressing in on the....let's call it a button...in the middle of the watch (see picture below) as you were putting in the pin? if not, i wonder if this was partially the source of your troubles....but now that i think about it, how could that little button engage with the pin unless the strap has some sort of notch in the middle of it (speaking of, does the strap have a notch in it?)? and if the button doesn't engage with the pin that's going through the rubber strap, how does the pin keep from falling out? i'm confused i ask because i'm trying to get an idea of what to expect when i get my nylon strap (king didn't include it in the original shipment, so i'm left to wait for it to come via airmail )... also, any pics of the ti chrono on the black strap? how does it look? thanks, deltatahoe

based on the pics, i personally think sash's sub is unappreciated.....it looks really solid, and is attractively priced....

hmmm...my 217 buckle definitely doesn't taper to 24mm at the buckle end. it has panerai printed on the side of the buckle (not centered) -- it's currently on my 26/26 europelli shell cordovan. i did buy my 217 from sichuan however (i could be the only person on this forum that is able to claim that title), that could have something to do with it....

welcome to RWG cool-arrow. i think you'll find that $2,800 you just saved can be easily spent in a matter of weeks with all of the great watches here. my biggest suggestion = try to wait at least a week before buying your first watch so you can learn and make an informed purchase. you will be glad you did -- there is a ton of great information here. enjoy! deltatahoe

not sure if anyone else is having these problems, but my notification emails have stopped again in the last couple days (they were working for a while though )....

if you like the spitfire, why not spring for the new pilot chrono? i think it will have a lot more presence on the wrist...

angus i can see you!!! any update on the costeau divers??!!?!! as you can see we're all very excited about this rep....

another great collection V. i need to get me one of those replica logo buckles....from davidsen, correct?