worlok

Zodiac was an old proud Swiss watch company which sort of went out of business and Fossil recently bought the name and revived it. Guess is they are Asian parts maybe assembled in Switzerland as the "Swiss Made" isn't what it used to be.

I don't care for the new ones. I liked the vintage ones.

The quartz divers look nice but I dislike quartz. The automatic ones that just came out look like some Seiko abomination, IMO. Those hands! Those hands.

Guys this is just getting stupid.

@ worlok the problem is simple, you have very strong ideas on how you expect this rep trade to work and you refuse to except others telling you that it does not in fact work like that.

May I ask what type of watch it is that you bought?

If it was already a Homage then I am at loss on why there is Panerai markings on it.

If it was a Panerai which you are making in to a Homage what about the Panerai on the dial.

If it was a 3646 with no markings on the dial I'm at loss why it has a clear case back and even with the correct non mark solid case back it is not a homage but an actual Panerai model.

Ken

It only says "Marina Militare" on the dial and was supposed to have a sterile solid caseback but instead came with the glass back with the Panerai wriitng around the back, which I told him I didn't want and he said no probs. I also specified sapphire front and he was like no probs. When seller says yes we can do that that is what you will get (had photos too - of exactly what I wanted and I mailed him the photos of what I wanted and he said okay baby it's yours - well not in those words but the same thing) and then everyone here is saying no it doesn't work like that it means mucho confusion.

your lack of understanding of copyright and trademark law is astounding.

Ask the guys at RXW how legal "homage" watches are.

Dumbshit.

oh, and WTF does "wit" mean???? maybe you should ask the dealer about substituting a Jacob and Co. for the watch the PAM....

Hey, tell MarcelloC that Rolex homages are illegal, or Timefactors with their PRS-14 (SM300), or the many others. I know what I'm talking about. The Ken Trading thing was a unique situation and they can do that in Japan. BTW I think Ken got fvcked on the crown protector thing if it's somehow protected but the Radomirs are A-okay to homage. That being said maybe the MM homage I wanted would be inside that grey areas due to the crown protector.

"Wit", street slang for "with". Pretty simple. Example: "Hands off the ho, beeyotch, she's wit me."

The dumbshit comment was not necessary. See how you react with 6 or so people taking jabs at you. Me and the other guy patched it up so we can too.

it's all good

why don't you tell us what your watch collection is like?

It's not so much quantity, namely due to the fact taht when the watches are over a grand, then over 2 grand, and me not being rich b/c I have to pay for the house payment, and gas, and insurance, and the wife/kid, bigscreen TV (essential)..... it all adds up.

Hopefully no one here knows me but you might by some pics.

And BTW I'm not trying to act like I'm all that b/c I know that there are people here who have some serious moolah tied up in both reps and gens.

I sold that large Citizen to my cousin.

Sold the OM

Used to own an SMP, Tissot Seastar, vintage Seastar chrono, etc etc etc - sometimes ya have to sell some to get new ones.

There have been plenty of others too.

you can't take it all too seriously my man.

i'll also admit that jerking your chain wasn't the most mature thing to do either. in all seriousness, i very much do hope that you get this situation resolved in a timely manner.

please don't take any offense, i was merely funning.

Well there we go if you be cool wit me then I be cool wit you. I'm really not that bad a guy and like I said I never outed the guy. I actually have a nice little watch collection and hang on most major watch boards. I just don't like being had. That said maybe it was an honest mistake. I can tell you something though, if he makes it right without a catch of it costing me more money I will up and say I was wrong. I have no problem eating crow.

I never intended for this to become a flame session with the other members but see how you react with 5 or 6 people coming at you from all angles. It makes yer head spin and you start jabbing back. One two, one two.

Although at this point I figure I'm flirtin' with being banned or somethin. I've never been banned from anywhere yet.

Ya know, I can understand you being a bit upset, but why didn't you wait and see what the dealer's reply to your email about your problem was first? You're dealing with an illegal product from half way around the world, you didn't just walk into Lord & Taylor and buy a shirt & tie . . . The watch dealers here are here because of their reputations for their watches at fair prices, with good solid service before AND after the sale. You seem to be worrying yourself into a panic with all the ifs . . . you said it IS one of the dealers from the boards, you will be taken care of & the situation corrected.

"Look, when I communicate thoroughly with someone and then GIVE THEM MY HARD EARNED MONEY I expect them to follow through correctly. No stupid careless mistakes and quality issues."

LLLOL . . . you never went to a drive thru, huh ??? My first watch order got to me rather quickly too. Feeling extremely pleased with the delivery time, I opened my package to find . . . not just one wrong watch, but another one too that I didn't order too. Emailed my dealer, letting them know what I received, and waited for a reply. Turned out my watch went to Calif. & their watches came to me in Ohio. Rather than play with Customs again, I suggested just sending each other the right watches. Dealer said great, and would and did pay me/us back. With all the crap that's happened to me, when things start going too well . . . that's when I start getting nervous . . .

"Even if he makes it right though this is just so unexcusable."

Oh yeah, the other rule is the customer is always right.

Your first statement there . . . and actually, your whole post about your situation, isn't exactly going to make any other dealer hope you want to do business with them . . . this is a game of patience, the majority of transactions go through amazingly well, but you have to plan on something messing up. That's why you use the dealers here, they make it right.

Oh, the second statement was made by a customer . . . probably a pain in the ass customer, so don't bother telling a business person that . . .

8^)

B

Successful businesspeople take their customers seriously and treat them well, and make sure the orders are correct the first time. I can understand if one of the things was wrong but I was very specific and they essentially sent me the opposite of what I took great pains to describe I wanted. I'm sorry if very few, if any, of you seem to get that.

You are comparing watches with Swiss movements that you wear on your wrist to drive through junk food? I rarely visit drive through anyway. I haven't been a student for about 15 years.

I keep hearing this illegal thing when I tried to buy a sterile non branded watch. Those aren't illegal. Lookalikes aren't illegal.

Furthermore, and this is like the 10th time I repeat it, I NEVER SAID WHO THE DEALER WAS, did I? I can sort of understand the hostility if I named him but I never named him. I am complaining anonymously. It started as a vent and I know I shouldn't bother responding constantly but what the hell.

Let it die and I'll let it die. If they want to keep bashing me hey we can all have fun flaming each other ad nauseum, rack up the posts, whatever. I realize that college aged kids and the recently graduated age groups like to do that hip thing. Let's all get jiggy with it.

two can play this game

Look who has such a great life he feels the NEED to keep engaging those who they claim haven't one.

Thank you.

I haven't ever met anyone that enjoys throwing their money away.

You thought wrong. Obviously.

I feel for ya.

I would give you a break if you didn't appear to be such a tool.

Two weeks is nothing.

So was that the intent from the beginning?

Whatever. Oh and by the way, relax.

No. I only intended to use the watch for myself. I don't really dig replicas which use the legit brand name. The Panerai is a unique case because of the history and that even the gen 1950 is a sort of a replica, and then you get all this Richemont group stuff. That being said I like the design, dont care for the name, don't intend to mislead people into thinking I own a Panerai either.

>>I would give you a break if you didn't appear to be such a tool.

You are oh so mature. Let's see, while I was complaining I never said who the dealer was. The whole group thing takes over and people here think they are defending some type of replica clique honor or something. Whatever. IF that's what turns on those who take that stance, to attack someone who was wronged, then so be it. Some of you obviously have very low standards, and really for those who do (not to bash those who replied without trying to turn it around on me) it's really no surprise. If you don't demand honest dealings with some of these guys they'll just keep up the low standard of service b/c you keep sending your money to them.

Again, I know what online risk taking is, and when dealing with vintage or used watches I have been very understanding about certain things which you have to. When sending thousands of dollars for a rare watch or a vintage Breitling there is obviously an element of risk that you assume, and for the most part honorable sellers come through.

I started by being angry but never mentioning the person's name and saying that if they came through I still wouldn't do it, but instead in this forum the norm is to blindly take the side of the anonymous seller and attack the forum member who is obviously angry at being treated in a manner not befitting someone who was open and honest in communication and who paid promptly and waited patiently and even though in the mood to complain never mentioned the seller. I could understand some of these replies and attitudes more if I immediately outed the seller but I never did that. Some of the respondants got that and noted it but the rest decided to "defend the faith".

Whatever. If that's what most people here are like it sounds like a tennager or twenty something gathering place more than a watch enthusiast board.

I admit that ranting wasn't the most mature thing but I was [censored]. Sue me.

I think there are a couple of learnings from this.

1) You have to accept the risk that the watch you ordered might be different to the watch your receive.

2) If you do receive something different, contact the dealer directly and wait for their response.

3) Do not [censored], winge, create a big sence or abuse the dealer until you hear from them. Give them a chance to correct their mistake.

4) If you are unhappy with the response or hear no response for longer 1-2 weeks, than you can make a fuss.

I never said anything about WHO the dealer was. I never intend to at this point.

*sigh*

We should just cut and paste this reply, since we've all done it so many times....

When you attempt to buy somethign that is blatantly illegal, YOU accept a certain amount of risk. heck, when you buy stuff for your xbox from Lik-sang in Hong Kong you accept a certain amount of risk.

---snip-----

So.....you can shut up now.

Hey [censored]. HOMAGES aren't illegal. Go back and reread the posts.

There is a certain level of risk you have to accept when playing the rep game mate.

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys?

I wasn't trying to get a REPLICA. I merely wanted an unmarked homage which this guy had pictures of and assured me he had and I would get. I can't show the pics b/c that would probably out him.

I really don't know what is so hard to understand here. I guess some people like throwing their money away. All I wanted was what I asked for and what he promised. It's not a little wrong, man. It's totally wrong. I might be able to live with it if the crystal was sapphire but mineral no way.

I'm not saying that I spent a mint on it but I didn't make the price. I would have paid more for the correct specification.

I have only one replica, it's a Fiddy, and except for the obviously wrong movt decoration it's a fine quality watch with sapphire. I merely wanted one that only said Marina Militare with a solid unmarked back and sapphire and this guy had a pic of what I wanted and said that is what I would get and assured me it was sapphire. Still waiting for his reply. Funny thing was when I was inquiring the replies came very fast....

I wouldn't pay over US$50 for a mineral crystal watch. Mineral is the worst crystal material. I would take acrylic over mineral, at least you can buff out the scratches.

relax...i'm sure the sun will still come up tomorrow in spite of you having a mineral crystal...i'm sure the birds will still be singing and the children will still play although there are no strap screws...with any luck the world will continue to spin despite the fact that you have an incorrect caseback.

yes the seller messed up. yes the seller should fix it. if they are one of our respected dealers then yes they will fix it. i agree with ken, the rep game is probably not for you. best of luck in getting the situation fixed though.

Nice little sarcasm. If being in the rep game means sending my money off for one thing and getting another then no it isn't. I don't know anyone with any intelligence who would enjoy throwing their money away.

I thought it worked like this. You see something you want, you contact seller and ask, he confirms, you order, you wait, you get what you ordered. Anyone who accepts less, well, I'll refrain from going any further.

Mineral crystal is crap. I don't want a replica I wanted a homage which he said was no problem. The strap itself doesn't bother me as I would switch that anyway but that just added the final kick in the nutz.

BTW I never said a name and if I recall it's everyone else who is trying so hard to guess who it is..... Give me a friggin break, buddy. I waited two frekin weeks for this thing and it's not just a little wrong it's all wrong. With the Panny markings on the back I can't even sell it on the non rep forums b/c they call it a fake. Some of you guys act like I insulted your mothers or something.

Gosh...22 emails for one order...

Well, I just went into the bathroom here at work and peeled the plastic partially off the crystal and guess what! It's MINERAL! The water didn't bead it spread out all over it.

He assured me it would be sapphire. Strike Three!

I specifically asked, more than once and repeated myself clearly so that there would be no misunderstanding I wanted a solid sterile back, sapphire front. I get mineral front and glass back with panerai markings on rear - and to add insult to injury the strap it came with was defective.

We'll see what he says. I have to send him another email about the crystal now.

Anyone want to buy a watch? It's a quite nice watch if it's what you're after and you have other 26mm straps.

live and learn bruthas. i just got a wrong dial sent today. all you lose is time, thats all.

Time is enjoyment. Time is precioussssss. Time can be money. You never get a refund on lost time.....

Just my 2 cents

With that attitude I'm sorry to say that I don't think the rep game is for you, because if you stick around you're going to see a whole lot worse than this.

Just one question straight out of left field........Is this dealer that you are talking about one of ours? something in the way you state your claim makes me feel that it might be a dealer from another site such as iOffer.

@HeWhoIsLikeGod

Andrew is most certainly a respected dealer here, if you have had a few issues maybe you should start another thread and tell us about them, but many members swear by his service.

Ken

Yeah, he's here. I am not saying his name and if he really makes good and corrects his mistake to my liking I will never mention his name directly in relation to this.

As far as my attitude. I paid my money. I communicated verbosely and frequently. The Gmail thread between him and I spans about 22 messages. He KNEW what I wanted. Is it so bad to pay your money, wait about 2 weeks, and then want it to come as you told him and as he confirmed? This is just about doing business. As far as I am concerned it has little to do with reps and everything to do with the seller being a good seller and making sure the stuff goes out as ordered. I mean even the strap had the 2 screws missing which attach one side to the lug. I'm really [censored] off and I think I have a right to be, regardless of his response. I have a new watch I was excited to get and it's sitting in a drawer still in the packaging. Not the type of experience I was looking forward to. I didn't buy this thing to mod or to have to send out to a watchmaker the first thing I got it. I expressly said I wasn't after a replica but a homage so I didn't want ANY Panerai markings. You'rr right, reps aren't for me but homages and lookalikes are okay with me. the seller said he could do it and so far he failed. I didn't do anything wrong. I held up my end of the bargain. I was a good customer and paid right away. I did my due diligence and communicated everything and he understood and knew what I wanted. This leaves me no choice but to conclude that he was just being careless. Little does he know that I know many a WIS who would probably place homage orders with him if I report a good experience. I already have several who are waiting on my experience. So far I don't have much in the way of anything good to tell them.

Thank goodness I have another contact who is going to be making another homage which I think might be better than what this guy has in more configurations, but still he could have parlayed it into more sales which I assume any businessman wants.

Remember, you never get a second chance to make a good first impression. Nowhere is that more truthful than in business when you take people's money. Oh yeah, the other rule is the customer is always right.

Based on my expierience, I would bet all my watches that this is about ANDREW, TWG. I ordered a JLC watch from him, and he said he had the watch and would ship it to me ASAP. I emailed him after a couple weeks of no tracking number and no watch, he replied by saying he didn't have the watch but he sent out a different watch that he thought I would like. The watch he planned on sending was a different brand and had a black face, the watch I ordered had a silver face, I didn't want a subsitute and the watch he tried to send me was a horrible subsitute. I don't think Andrew is a very respectful seller here, on occasion he is borderline scamming.

Nope. But thanks for the ID of one to avoid.

BTW LOVE that avatar!

If your dealer is one of the well known and trusted dealers on the on the boards, you should know, after reading their reviews, that they will take care of problems. You should be emailing/PMing them directly and calmly explaining the problem instead of flaming them on the forum. That doesn't score you many points, here or with your dealer. If after repeated attempts over a reasonable period of time still doesn't resolve your problem . . . THEN . . . post your message.

Great first post BTW . . .

8^(

B

You act as if I was using their name. Look, when I communicate thoroughly with someone and then GIVE THEM MY HARD EARNED MONEY I expect them to follow through correctly. No stupid careless mistakes and quality issues.

If he resolves it correctly I would update and still not mention who it was. I am not one though who thinks that any offer is resolution enough. If it turns out that he expects me to pay postage or some other cash outlay to make it right when he messed up then that isn't sufficient either.

HK Ray did that to me with his pseudo Ruhla. The idiot expected me to send the faulty watch back to him in HK ON MY DIME for replacement when he couldn't even bother to make sure that he sent me a good one in the first place. A 10 second check would have shown that guy that the watch was bad. We'll see if this guy does the same and believe me a 10 second glance would have told him the back wasn't unmarked and the strap was defective.

Forums are great for a quick vent. IF you don't like it then move on I don't want to bore you my friend.

Contact the seller and see what he says.

Yeah, I did. Still waiting for reply. It just gets me though b/c I don't want to have to pay to send it back to HK and after being so SPECIFIC with him and he replied and KNEW what I wanted there is just no excuse for it to come the way it did. It's still in plastic but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the crystal is probably mineral as opposed to the sapphire I requested and he confirmed but I can't test that b/c I don't want to unwrap it under the circumstances.

I waited about 2 weeks for this thing and now to be disapointed so......

...and who sends a watch with the screws on the lug bar end missing the two screws which hold on the strap? I have real straps but really that doesn't help my attitude right now.........

This guy came highly recommended mind you but for now I am witholding his handle. I don't want to run afoul of proper ettiquette. Even if he makes it right though this is just so unexcusable. This shouldn't happen especially with the volume of communication I had with him prior to the sale.

I am in touch with a seller and I communicate with him multiple times EXACTLY what I want and I wait a few weeks to get it and its still wrong!! Also, the straps comes with 2 screws missing on one side. What is wrong that some of these guys are so careless.

You tell them you want a sterile back with no markings and they send glass back with Panerai markings. Trade emails, send picture from his catalog of what you want, he confirms. Defective strap too?

I'm fumed.